Discussion Random Discussion (No Politics, Religion) - SHOW CHIN PASSPORT ON ENTRY

[gringo2011]

My contention is that nothing Israel does in regard to land will do anything other than weaken them.

It‘s also my belief that making concessions will do nothing to placate those who oppose Israel. It will only encourage them to seek what has been openly stated which is the destruction of Israel.

That's possibly true but doing the fair thing never hurts. While religion is involved in politics nothing good is going to happen.

 

[luca77]

It's more that they can't keep up tending to their own and now the olympics will takes testers, medical staff, and the attention of government that should be planning Covid response not putting in time to something that won't benefit locals.

Yeah, the government initially requested that 500 nurses be made available, then they requested that beds be made available for the athletes. These nurses and beds don't appear out of thin air, they're diverted from public use.

It's important to understand that all of Japan's restrictions so far have just been suggestions - nothing is enforced, whether it's curfews, quarantine or anything else. There's no way young people from all these different countries will ALL take the necessary precautions, and the quarantine measures will not be anywhere near as developed as the Australian ones have been forced to become (through stuffing up).

On top of this, they've promised to provide vaccinations...to athletes! I literally don't know a single person who's been vaccinated here yet, and their "roll-out" has been happening at a trickle - yet they're obviously going to pull out the stops for their visitors. Less than 2% of the population had been vaccinated last I heard, and those people were all either medical staff or the elderly. The sick haven't even had their turn yet.

The most scary part is that you've got all these variants of the coronavirus that we know about, and possibly others that we don't, all on the doorstep of a country where nobody has been vaccinated and where ambulances are at times calling over 200 hospitals, unable to find any that can take their patients. So a lot of people are being told to just recover at home...and dying there. Already. The "State of Emergency" is seriously that at the moment, it's not an exaggeration.

As you said, there's no certainty the athletes will have been effectively vaccinated or won't transmit the virus. There's also countless other staff and journalists involved.

As for the Australian open, check these numbers out from an article in The Age a few months back:
Quote:
Comparisons with the Australian Open don’t stand up. Just over 1000 players and their entourages have arrived in Melbourne by 17 charter flights and all were in strictly controlled hotel quarantine. Nine have tested positive for COVID-19, consistent with the 1 per cent of returning travellers testing positive. The Olympic Games will be in a different category, bringing together more than 11,000 athletes from 206 countries, at least 5000 coaches and officials, 20,000 journalists and 60,000 volunteers.

 

[flyingmagic]

My contention is that nothing Israel does in regard to land will do anything other than weaken them.

It‘s also my belief that making concessions will do nothing to placate those who oppose Israel. It will only encourage them to seek what has been openly stated which is the destruction of Israel.

And what will making no concessions look like?

More settlements? Just a big one state solution with different classes of people leading to an eventual apartheid? Or just building bigger walls around Gaza and the West bank so they are more like a prison?

 

[plugger66]

Yeah, the government initially requested that 500 nurses be made available, then they requested that beds be made available for the athletes. These nurses and beds don't appear out of thin air, they're diverted from public use.

It's important to understand that all of Japan's restrictions so far have just been suggestions - nothing is enforced, whether it's curfews, quarantine or anything else. There's no way young people from all these different countries will ALL take the necessary precautions, and the quarantine measures will not be anywhere near as developed as the Australian ones have been forced to become (through stuffing up).

On top of this, they've promised to provide vaccinations...to athletes! I literally don't know a single person who's been vaccinated here yet, and their "roll-out" has been happening at a trickle - yet they're obviously going to pull out the stops for their visitors. Less than 2% of the population had been vaccinated last I heard, and those people were all either medical staff or the elderly. The sick haven't even had their turn yet.

The most scary part is that you've got all these variants of the coronavirus that we know about, and possibly others that we don't, all on the doorstep of a country where nobody has been vaccinated and where ambulances are at times calling over 200 hospitals, unable to find any that can take their patients. So a lot of people are being told to just recover at home...and dying there. Already. The "State of Emergency" is seriously that at the moment, it's not an exaggeration.

As you said, there's no certainty the athletes will have been effectively vaccinated or won't transmit the virus. There's also countless other staff and journalists involved.

As for the Australian open, check these numbers out from an article in The Age a few months back:
Quote:
Comparisons with the Australian Open don’t stand up. Just over 1000 players and their entourages have arrived in Melbourne by 17 charter flights and all were in strictly controlled hotel quarantine. Nine have tested positive for COVID-19, consistent with the 1 per cent of returning travellers testing positive. The Olympic Games will be in a different category, bringing together more than 11,000 athletes from 206 countries, at least 5000 coaches and officials, 20,000 journalists and 60,000 volunteers.

There is a lot of untruths in that to build an argument. Pretty sure Japan aren’t providing vaccine. A bit late when they get there. Also those numbers maybe right or even wrong but they aren’t there at the same time. It’s in and out. As for beds and nurses where does that come from. Why are they needing either. Beds to sleep are already there. Why would thousands of athletes and staff get sick even if a few got covid. Nearly everyone there age who gets covid does not need care. They need isolation. The strange thing is their government think they can handle it but you don’t. Now who would I trust out of those 2 options. Yep I will go with the people with all the facts. I understand why many people who live there wouldn’t want it but there is so much pressure on Japan to get it right I think they they will. Do you really think they will let people just day and run short of hospital beds and nurses with the world watching. May work the other way.

 

[gringo2011]

There is a lot of untruths in that to build an argument. Pretty sure Japan aren’t providing vaccine. A bit late when they get there. Also those numbers maybe right or even wrong but they aren’t there at the same time. It’s in and out. As for beds and nurses where does that come from. Why are they needing either. Beds to sleep are already there. Why would thousands of athletes and staff get sick even if a few got covid. Nearly everyone there age who gets covid does not need care. They need isolation. The strange thing is their government think they can handle it but you don’t. Now who would I trust out of those 2 options. Yep I will go with the people with all the facts. I understand why many people who live there wouldn’t want it but there is so much pressure on Japan to get it right I think they they will. Do you really think they will let people just day and run short of hospital beds and nurses with the world watching. May work the other way.

11,000 athletes are going to have at least 500 injuries. I imagine the beds are for the athletes to be treated for a range of things from gastro to ACLs.

 

[Yawkey way]

That's possibly true but doing the fair thing never hurts. While religion is involved in politics nothing good is going to happen.

Can’t talk politics but fair is hard to find.

 

[pebblesofsand]

You know the Palestine before 1948 was not the Palestinians of today.

Here is a link not wrolittrn from an Israeli point of view but the facts

The Deception of Palestinian Nationalism

When speaking about the Middle East, it is common to hear about the “need” and “desire” for Palestinian statehood. But exactly what kind of state do the Palestinians want and what are the roots of Palestinian nationalism? Historically, the Palestinian “desire for statehood” and “need for...

stanfordreview.org

Yes I do.

Do you realise the state of Israel had never existed and is the artificial creation of a "nation" based solely on religious belief and the wholesale settlement of Jewish people in the area in the 1900's which was further encouraged by Britain when it was the colonial ruler of "Mandatory Palestine".

Rumour has it that devotees of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pastafarians) are seeking nation state rights in Kansas.

No doubt you'll support their struggle.

 

[Yawkey way]

And what will making no concessions look like?

More settlements? Just a big one state solution with different classes of people leading to an eventual apartheid? Or just building bigger walls around Gaza and the West bank so they are more like a prison?

I can’t figure out how the saints can win a premiership let alone unravel this mess.

Yes inevitably things may get uglier but I’d want something more than what’s on offer if I was Israel. Eygpt have gaza sealed as well and for good reason.

 

[plugger66]

11,000 athletes are going to have at least 500 injuries. I imagine the beds are for the athletes to be treated for a range of things from gastro to ACLs.

Really. I would doubt 5% would get injuries that require a nurse. Matter of fact I’m certain that would not happen.

 

[luca77]

There is a lot of untruths in that to build an argument. Pretty sure Japan aren’t providing vaccine. A bit late when they get there. Also those numbers maybe right or even wrong but they aren’t there at the same time. It’s in and out. As for beds and nurses where does that come from. Why are they needing either. Beds to sleep are already there. Why would thousands of athletes and staff get sick even if a few got covid. Nearly everyone there age who gets covid does not need care. They need isolation. The strange thing is their government think they can handle it but you don’t. Now who would I trust out of those 2 options. Yep I will go with the people with all the facts. I understand why many people who live there wouldn’t want it but there is so much pressure on Japan to get it right I think they they will. Do you really think they will let people just day and run short of hospital beds and nurses with the world watching. May work the other way.

Umm they already HAVE run out of hospital beds and nurses with the whole world watching. I'm not exaggerating, almost every single day we are hearing stories of ambulances simply driving around the city for hours with nowhere to take patients. A driver the other day said they called OVER 200 hospitals and couldn't get a single bed. Not just vaccines, tests haven't been available. I have a very large circle via work, and nobody has been able to be tested throughout this pandemic. A guy in Nagoya was found to have requested tests three times, refused and wound up dying at home. One of the reasons was a lack of availability of tests for this massive population, another is that the hospitals are already at their limit and are telling people to just stay home. They're already dying at home. Read for yourself,

Article expired

News on Japan, Business News, Opinion, Sports, Entertainment and More

www.japantimes.co.jp

Don't listen to me (here in Japan), read the newspapers. There are plenty available, Japan Today is an easy to follow source of news in Japan. A 2 second google will also help you out before you rate your own suppositions over news from other people who follow this stuff every single day.

Nurses:

Medics fuming at request for 500 nurses for Olympics | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

www.asahi.com

Beds:

Governors refuse to allot hospital beds for Olympians with coronavirus

Governors' reluctance to set aside hospital beds for the Olympics comes as dozens of Japanese towns have abandoned plans to host Olympic athletes.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Honestly, you saying this government knows best when it comes to anything related to this pandemic is laughable. Their measures have been pathetic and entirely unenforced, they created a huge travel campaign mid-pandemic that was directly proven to have made things a whole lot worse, at no state have they closed any borders or limited means of travel, they closed borders way too late, they were behind the rest of the world with vaccine approval, and still didn't use that time to plan how to actually administer the vaccine to everyone, resulting in more massive holdups - the list could go on and on, but ...again...Google. Doctors and nurses know best, Plugger - I suggest you read what the doctors and nurses associations in Japan are saying about all this.

As for numbers, I'm sure you understood what the 1% of travellers testing positive means, referred to in The Age article I quoted. Add up 1% of these numbers: 11,000 athletes from 206 countries, at least 5000 coaches and officials, 20,000 journalists and 60,000 volunteers. You make it sound like one event's team is going to come, then go home, then the next, then the next. 339 events are going to be held, and I repeat - no strict quarantine procedures or other restrictions.

Finally, people also need to understand that why Australians are bemoaning a few cases here and there leading to travel restrictions and masks, in Japan we've had no break from this at all for a year and a half. Those of us taking our own precautions have been doing this non-stop, both indoors and outdoors and working around the clock 7 days a week to keep businesses from going under. My 2yo son knows nothing other than a pandemic, has no friends other than his immediate family and hasn't even met his extended family members. All being undermined by others not taking precautions, notably members of the government you rate so highly who've been hosting huge parties despite "suggesting" others don't. Try to consider these things, and you'll see why the last thing people here want is for this to be extended further so people can throw a hunk of metal or jump over a metal bar or run 0.3 seconds faster than some other guy and get a medal around their neck. People here don't give a siht, the athletes are not welcome here, and that's not just my opinion.

Take a look at these graphs, things are getting worse not better.

Japan COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Japan Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

It's easy for you to say the olympics should go ahead from Australia with your 12 or so cases causing huge alarm. We had 2712 new cases here on Monday alone. Untruths, give me a spell. People here are stressed, fatigued, angry and afraid with good reason.

 

[plugger66]

Umm they already HAVE run out of hospital beds and nurses with the whole world watching. I'm not exaggerating, almost every single day we are hearing stories of ambulances simply driving around the city for hours with nowhere to take patients. A driver the other day said they called OVER 200 hospitals and couldn't get a single bed. Not just vaccines, tests haven't been available. I have a very large circle via work, and nobody has been able to be tested throughout this pandemic. A guy in Nagoya was found to have requested tests three times, refused and wound up dying at home. One of the reasons was a lack of availability of tests for this massive population, another is that the hospitals are already at their limit and are telling people to just stay home. They're already dying at home. Read for yourself,

Article expired

News on Japan, Business News, Opinion, Sports, Entertainment and More

www.japantimes.co.jp

Don't listen to me (here in Japan), read the newspapers. There are plenty available, Japan Today is an easy to follow source of news in Japan. A 2 second google will also help you out before you rate your own suppositions over news from other people who follow this stuff every single day.

Nurses:

Medics fuming at request for 500 nurses for Olympics | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

www.asahi.com

Beds:

Governors refuse to allot hospital beds for Olympians with coronavirus

Governors' reluctance to set aside hospital beds for the Olympics comes as dozens of Japanese towns have abandoned plans to host Olympic athletes.

www.japantimes.co.jp

Honestly, you saying this government knows best when it comes to anything related to this pandemic is laughable. Their measures have been pathetic and entirely unenforced, they created a huge travel campaign mid-pandemic that was directly proven to have made things a whole lot worse, at no state have they closed any borders or limited means of travel, they closed borders way too late, they were behind the rest of the world with vaccine approval, and still didn't use that time to plan how to actually administer the vaccine to everyone, resulting in more massive holdups - the list could go on and on, but ...again...Google. Doctors and nurses know best, Plugger - I suggest you read what the doctors and nurses associations in Japan are saying about all this.

As for numbers, I'm sure you understood what the 1% of travellers testing positive means, referred to in The Age article I quoted. Add up 1% of these numbers: 11,000 athletes from 206 countries, at least 5000 coaches and officials, 20,000 journalists and 60,000 volunteers. You make it sound like one event's team is going to come, then go home, then the next, then the next. 339 events are going to be held, and I repeat - no strict quarantine procedures or other restrictions.

Finally, people also need to understand that why Australians are bemoaning a few cases here and there leading to travel restrictions and masks, in Japan we've had no break from this at all for a year and a half. Those of us taking our own precautions have been doing this non-stop, both indoors and outdoors and working around the clock 7 days a week to keep businesses from going under. My 2yo son knows nothing other than a pandemic, has no friends other than his immediate family and hasn't even met his extended family members. All being undermined by others not taking precautions, notably members of the government you rate so highly who've been hosting huge parties despite "suggesting" others don't. Try to consider these things, and you'll see why the last thing people here want is for this to be extended further so people can throw a hunk of metal or jump over a metal bar or run 0.3 seconds faster than some other guy and get a medal around their neck. People here don't give a siht, the athletes are not welcome here, and that's not just my opinion.

Take a look at these graphs, things are getting worse not better.

Japan COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Japan Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

It's easy for you to say the olympics should go ahead from Australia with your 12 or so cases causing huge alarm. We had 2712 new cases here on Monday alone. Untruths, give me a spell. People here are stressed, fatigued, angry and afraid with good reason.

Well I feel sorry for you but having the olympics won’t make much difference. They don’t need nurses or hospital Italian beds. Or if they do it will that small it wouldn’t be noticed. Of course people there don’t want it. We didn’t want the Australian open. I’m not doubting you but I can’t believe with the number of cases compared to what Europe have had that you have run out of beds. It’s not like you have had the numbers they have had. Must have a pathetic hospital system. Anyway it’s happening so let’s hope it won’t effect other things. I think Japan will be ok. Fit young athletes are not going to get bad covid. And if the hubs are good no one should get it. And they won’t use any of Japan’s vaccines as there is zero point. And you can use those numbers which is fine but it’s not the whole story. Many are in and out so probably a quarter there at a time.

 

[luca77]

Well I feel sorry for you but having the olympics won’t make much difference. They don’t need nurses or hospital Italian beds. Or if they do it will that small it wouldn’t be noticed. Of course people there don’t want it. We didn’t want the Australian open. I’m not doubting you but I can’t believe with the number of cases compared to what Europe have had that you have run out of beds. It’s not like you have had the numbers they have had. Must have a pathetic hospital system. Anyway it’s happening so let’s hope it won’t effect other things. I think Japan will be ok. Fit young athletes are not going to get bad covid. And if the hubs are good no one should get it. And they won’t use any of Japan’s vaccines as there is zero point. And you can use those numbers which is fine but it’s not the whole story. Many are in and out so probably a quarter there at a time.

You're right about numbers not adding up, that's been a theme here since the beginning. All kinds of number rigging going on here in Japan. Early on, there were reports that people were only being included in the case/death count if they had been diagnosed prior to death. So that dude who died at home after being refused his tests - didn't even feature in the count, along with countless others who couldn't get tested. Not sure if that's the case now or whether they've cleaned up their act. The hospital system here is similar to their banking and other systems - you'd be shocked. It's like stepping back about 30 years. Plus a huge elderly population here is probably not helping with availability of these things.

I'll just say this to finish. The Australian Open was a piddly event compared to this. 1000 is nothing compared to the numbers mentioned above. We're talking about a hundred times the size.

Finally, WITHOUT the Olympis and just a handful of returnees coming home now and then, these coronavirus variants have already found their way from country to country to country. To think that, on top of returnees, this number of people are going to enter an unvaccinated country without having much of an effect is absurd in my opinion.

You're welcome to yours of course, as usual. And I hope you're right.

 

[Pardon me]

With lockdown imminent (hopefully short) anyone that is feeling anxious or down please dont hesitate to contact your friends and family. If anyone is requires a chat send a PM. The BF community is a great place to keep sane during these trying times and have some great resources stickied on the front page.
Good luck everyone and stay safe!!

 

[flyingmagic]

I can’t figure out how the saints can win a premiership let alone unravel this mess.

Yes inevitably things may get uglier but I’d want something more than what’s on offer if I was Israel. Eygpt have gaza sealed as well and for good reason.

Like what?

 

[George]

Echoing the sentiments of Pardon me , if anyone would like a chat feel free to reach out to me or if you'd like a break or need something done via what I can do as a mod I'm happy to help.

I've deliberately tried to ease the tone of the board over the last week with some light hearted jokes or a bit of pisstake. We can get too caught up in the Saints sometimes and I know I'm in that group too but clearly more important things in life.

If I can see you are struggling I feel I'm obliged to reach out so just know that there's support here if you need.

I'll cut some slack over the next few weeks, admittedly I've done that lately anyway but given the circumstances, this should be a place we enjoy.

Cheers

 

[Joffaboy]

So, currently in the Mecure in Jabiru Kakadu on a two day tour. Supposed to be on a 10 day 4wd tour through the Kimberley to Broome.
Tour cancelled, our whole bus needs to isolate in a hotel in an isolated community of indigeneous until we get a negative covid test.
Hotel not enough rooms, 3 hours from Darwin, our belongings in a hotel room in Darwin we need to be out of by Saturday.

We are royally ****ed.

 

[Joffaboy]

Making a break for Darwin, wish us luck

 

[StFly]

Making a break for Darwin, wish us luck

Blame frogs for it, everyone else does.

 

[Joffaboy]

Anyway, heres a croc

 

[SaintsSeptember]

That's possibly true but doing the fair thing never hurts. While religion is involved in politics nothing good is going to happen.

Its probably more separate in Israel than most countries in that part of the world.
There is discrimination but Its probably a lot better to be a Muslim in Israel than it is to be a Jew in any of the other countries around there.
In fact its probably better to be a Muslim in Israel than it is to be anyone in the Palestinian state.

The Status of Arabs in Israel

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Willful Separation
While there is no institutional segregation, Jews and Arabs have chosen to live separately in all but a handful of cities. Israelis all recognize that Arab villages have historically received less funding than Jewish areas and this has affected the quality of Arab schools, infrastructure and social services. Arabs are also underrepresented in higher education and most industries.

Israeli Jews and Arabs have surprisingly little contact with each other. Most young people study at different elementary and secondary schools and may not come into contact with one another until college; by then, many preconceived opinions have been formed. This lack of interaction exacerbates tensions between the two communities.

Israeli Arabs also face their own conflicts as Palestinians in a Jewish state. While identifying with the Palestinian people and disputing Israel’s identification as a Jewish state, they see their future tied to Israel. They have adopted Hebrew as a second language and Israeli culture as an extra layer in their lives. At the same time, they strive to attain a higher degree of participation in national life, greater integration into the economy and more benefits for their own towns and villages.

Although Israeli Arabs have occasionally been involved in terrorist activities, they have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During Israel’s wars, none engaged in acts of sabotage or disloyalty. In some instances, Arabs volunteered to take over civilian functions for reservists.

 

[Brains Trust66]

A link to Neill’s Fearless Four podcast Starring Neill ( Rabbit58) with a little help from Peter ( Brainstrust66) . Neill has been writing books to encourage young teens to read . Also on Spotify etc etc .

 

[StCicatriz]

So, currently in the Mecure in Jabiru Kakadu on a two day tour. Supposed to be on a 10 day 4wd tour through the Kimberley to Broome.
Tour cancelled, our whole bus needs to isolate in a hotel in an isolated community of indigeneous until we get a negative covid test.
Hotel not enough rooms, 3 hours from Darwin, our belongings in a hotel room in Darwin we need to be out of by Saturday.

We are royally f’ed.

hope its going well mate!

 

[parkeysainter]

I really like Pavlova.

 

[Joffaboy]

Made it back to Darwin. So we have to isolate in the hotel, cant move but need to be out by Saturday.
Ring the NT covid hotline, sorry closed until 8.00 am tomorrow morning but may extend the times if hotspots occur .

Funniest thing in is, we have to test negative and can stay but need to fly home as the airlines are cancelling flights. So we are going to have to fly into a lockdown.

BEST HOLIDAY EVER!!!!!!!

 

[George]

Ring the NT covid hotline, sorry closed until 8.00 am tomorrow morning but may extend the times if hotspots occur

E-Mail them instead