Preview Rd 13 Cats V Swans Sunday June 9 320pm @ SCG

[dangerwood]

Champion Data's rankings are close to the biggest load of BS in football.
Compiying stats and selling them to consumers is the only thing they're good at.
When it comes to making judgement & subjective calls based on raw data (ie: their ranking systems), they are so for off the mark it's not funny.

I seriously doubt Hoyne has watched too many games of football. He simply runs his numbers through an algorithm and thinks he's some sort of football guru.

Champion data had Daniel Menzel ranked as an elite player in the year we delisted him (2018?), yet Joel Selwood wasn't. Laughable.

As well as Holmes has been playing of late, how he could be rated above Daicos or Warner (2 players off the top of my head) is also laughable.

Hoyne is very irritating the way he speaks. I don't mind some stats and they can provide fodder, but I hate the way he speaks as if his stats are the undeniable truth. Last week Nick Daicos was 231st for ball use and it was stated along the lines... "him winning more of the ball comes at a cost, if you want his efficiency he can't be an inside midfielder etc"

Wha? everyone knows if you're winning more ball under pressure you're not going to be as effective but Daicos is elite, whatever the circumstances are you want him winning the ball. His 231st ranking was across a period where he earnt 39 of a possible 40 coaches votes.

This week "Daicos played the best game of anyone this year, noone has had more impact with ball use". Well blow me down. Funnily enough the coaches didn't even rate him the best player in this game.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Hoyne is very irritating the way he speaks. I don't mind some stats and they can provide fodder, but I hate the way he speaks as if his stats are the undeniable truth. Last week Nick Daicos was 231st for ball use and it was stated along the lines... "him winning more of the ball comes at a cost, if you want his efficiency he can't be an inside midfielder etc"

Wha? everyone knows if you're winning more ball under pressure you're not going to be as effective but Daicos is elite, whatever the circumstances are you want him winning the ball. His 231st ranking was across a period where he earnt 39 of a possible 40 coaches votes.

This week "Daicos played the best game of anyone this year, noone has had more impact with ball use". Well blow me down. Funnily enough the coaches didn't even rate him the best player in this game.

He comes across like those muppets in the crowd who are experts on everyone and everything despite never playing a game of footy in their lives....

 

[Hinkley29]

I hold grave fears for us this weekend then.

You should

 

[Pollywaffle]

Champion Data's rankings are close to the biggest load of BS in football.
Compiying stats and selling them to consumers is the only thing they're good at.
When it comes to making judgement & subjective calls based on raw data (ie: their ranking systems), they are so for off the mark it's not funny.

I seriously doubt Hoyne has watched too many games of football. He simply runs his numbers through an algorithm and thinks he's some sort of football guru.

Champion data had Daniel Menzel ranked as an elite player in the year we delisted him (2018?), yet Joel Selwood wasn't. Laughable.

As well as Holmes has been playing of late, how he could be rated above Daicos or Warner (2 players off the top of my head) is also laughable.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics​

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments, "one of the best, and best-known" critiques of applied statistics. Wikipedia

 

[bruce lindner]

Cats social media is so seductive with their VFL highlights posts about this time each week

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Only got to find a way to hold our own in the middle and we'll ask some serious questions theyve never been able to stop our forward line, unfortunately I think Grundy will put it down their mids throats and they'll dance around us.

Agree - hold our own or lower our colours slightly in the middle will be a huge factor in the result.
More importantly is our pressure between the arcs and our ability to stop their quality clearances will give us a chance.
Forcing turnovers will be very influential.

I also think we need to execute well early and get off to a good start , we haven't been clean early and that can really hurt.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Yes IIRC I posted this 3-4 weeks ago too.

I wondered who else had said it allrighty, I think you said they need to lower their eyes

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Agree - hold our own or lower our colours slightly in the middle will be a huge factor in the result.
More importantly is our pressure between the arcs and our ability to stop their quality clearances will give us a chance.
Forcing turnovers will be very influential.

I also think we need to execute well early and get off to a good start , we haven't been clean early and that can really hurt.

Nailed it F2G

How do you see our set up to achieve these necessities? I'm always interested to hear different strategies.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Nailed it F2G

How do you see our set up to achieve these necessities? I'm always interested to hear different strategies.

Hi HK

Yeah - that's the million dollar question isn't it?
Fundamentally we have to get the midfied balance right between attack and defend.
In terms of defence I think MOC or Mullin could play a role as tagging Warner or Heeney , Guilden has to be defended as well There's a lot of talent there ! Main thing is to stop them bursting clear from centre bounces.
I think we'll pick Conway so if he can do well and tap to advantage that would be huge.
We exerted enormous frontal pressure on them in the 22GF - would be great if we can rediscover that.

If we can get back to what we showed earlier in the season we're a chance , but the Swans will have to be less than optimum as well..................

 

[Mr Meow]

Hi HK

Yeah - that's the million dollar question isn't it?
Fundamentally we have to get the midfied balance right between attack and defend.
In terms of defence I think MOC or Mullin could play a role as tagging Warner or Heeney , Guilden has to be defended as well There's a lot of talent there ! Main thing is to stop them bursting clear from centre bounces.
I think we'll pick Conway so if he can do well and tap to advantage that would be huge.
We exerted enormous frontal pressure on them in the 22GF - would be great if we can rediscover that.

If we can get back to what we showed earlier in the season we're a chance , but the Swans will have to be less than optimum as well..................

O'Connor to tag Gulden on one wing. Cameron on the other as an attacking/territory wingman who drifts forward. Dempsey and Miers the half forwards who attack around stoppages to support the others.

I don't think we can afford to tag too heavily at stoppages. Each midfielder has to be accountable but also win their own ball. And when they can't, they need to make Sydney clearances scrappy. Easier said than done.

Realistically we have no choice but to back Holmes, Bowes, Bruhn and Atkins in. Then hope we have a decisive edge at either ends of the ground (forward/defence). This is more of a hope than expectation thing for me this week.

 

[allrighty]

I wondered who else had said it allrighty, I think you said they need to lower their eyes

Sure did, and they sure need to. I don't know if it's pressure on the kicker or the forwards crowding themselves.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

O'Connor to tag Gulden on one wing. Cameron on the other as an attacking/territory wingman who drifts forward. Dempsey and Miers the half forwards who attack around stoppages to support the others.

I don't think we can afford to tag too heavily at stoppages. Each midfielder has to be accountable but also win their own ball. And when they can't, they need to make Sydney clearances scrappy. Easier said than done.

Realistically we have no choice but to back Holmes, Bowes, Bruhn and Atkins in. Then hope we have a decisive edge at either ends of the ground (forward/defence). This is more of a hope than expectation thing for me this week.

The hope would be that now that Max has moved into the middle, and Bruhn & Bowes are available and adding more offensive strings to their bow by the week that we've got a bit more firepower in there.

They're certainly not in Sydney's class at this stage of their careers, but there's a point of difference in there that we seem to be figuring out as the season goes on.

The Port game for instance where it was Axe, Blitz, Mullin, Parfitt, and a half injured Guthrie is just way too defensive, and lacks any real difference maker to balance out the group.

 

[CatRiot]

Swans gonna lose, and they will go "wah wah" all night long... Cry baby style

 

[CatRiot]

Swans go wah wah mode soon. Get the diapers ready.

wah

wah

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I also think we need to execute well early and get off to a good start , we haven't been clean early and that can really hurt.

The only problem with Geelong and it is a big problem is the wild flucuations in performance per quarter in a game

Take the GWS game - at qtr time it was something like 5 goals to 2 the Cats way , maybe that flattered Geel a little bit . So Geel have started the game ok , then the 2nd qtr was probably the worst qtr Geel have played in 10 years , and could have been outscored by 10 goals , and Geel in general play didnt look like winning the ball in the 2nd qtr - you could have gone and taken your dog for walk and you knew when you came back they wouldnt have scored anything and they didnt

Then fast forward to the last qtr , its totally opposite i think it was 15 inside 50s to 1 Geelongs way at one point - total domination by Geel

You look at the Port - GWS and Rich , none of them really any good , i think GWS had lost 4 on the trot before they played us , yet those 3 teams slaughtered Geel at KP in the 1st half

That to me says there is problem with some Geelong players work ethic , and i think some Geel players maybe are a bit cunning in that regard , because in the 2nd half in all 3 games it was totally different they came home with a Wet sail

 

[goyoucatters]

Only got to find a way to hold our own in the middle and we'll ask some serious questions theyve never been able to stop our forward line, unfortunately I think Grundy will put it down their mids throats and they'll dance around us.

I believe you are right about this. But that's just about the biggest 'only' I can recall over my history on this board.

The reality is that our mids have been embarrassed for long periods in recent weeks by midfields far less dynamic and clearly less talented than theirs. So we will need a big lift around the ball if we are to have any chance. Let's face it, if they get fast, clean clearances and reasonable conversion going for even half a quarter in this game, it's hard to see how we would get back into it.

Will require a real four-quarter effort from the entire team to get close, I believe.

 

[patience]

He comes across like those muppets in the crowd who are experts on everyone and everything despite never playing a game of footy in their lives....

I hear a lot of blokes at games "explaining" the game to their partners. Ad nauseam.

 

[cats_09]

This is my favourite take I've seen online in regards to team selection this week - is there at least some level of agreement that this is why the MC shouldn't pay attention to 'FB Wannabe Coaches'

"You cannot take anything out of Saturday's game as Richmond played a lot of inexperienced youngster. It is time to give Hardie and Constable a seat on the bench and insert them into the game if the Swan's run riot otherwise the Cat's will be slaughtered at the centre bounces."

 

[cats_09]

 

[Finknottle]

He comes across like those muppets in the crowd who are experts on everyone and everything despite never playing a game of footy in their lives....

He might have played footy growing up. I am not aware either way. I like to think I have some insight into NRL but I've never played the sport. A bloke like Hoyne would be thinking about AFL football every waking moment. Plus his Analytical background would allow him to see things others would not even be aware of. I find him pretty enlightening.

 

[cats_09]

The early team news from 7News

Ins: Stanley, Blicavs, Clark & Mannagh
Outs: Henry (hamstring) - guessing that it's Ollie, but no initial was given


Also, no Dangerfield

 

[CHAWKTS]

The early team news from 7News

Ins: Stanley, Blicavs, Clark & Mannagh
Outs: Henry (hamstring) - guessing that it's Ollie, but no initial was given


Also, no Dangerfield

Is this an extended bench scenario given Sunday? Ie. 26 players named so the ins and outs should be compared to the team including emergencies last week?

 

[cats_09]

Is this an extended bench scenario given Sunday? Ie. 26 players named so the ins and outs should be compared to the team including emergencies last week?

Yep

I'm waiting for the club to release the current team sheet with extended bench to get a better idea

 

[cats_09]

Geelong takes on the Swans in a Sunday double-header at the SCG, with the VFL Cats in action first at 11.35am before the AFL sides do battle from 3.20pm.

The match will be broadcast on Foxtel and streamed through Kayo from 2.30pm.

Round 13​

Sydney Swans v Geelong Cats
SCG, Sydney. - Gadigal
3.20pm AEST Sunday 9 June

In: Rhys Stanley

1

Rhys Stanley

Age

33

Ht

200cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

27.6

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.5

3star

CL

5.0

5star

HO

21.5

5star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

6.4

4star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

33.0

5star

, Mark Blicavs

46

Mark Blicavs

Age

33

Ht

198cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

M/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.7

4star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

0.1

2star

D

8.6

3star

K

2.0

1star

HB

6.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

CL

2.0

4star

, Jhye Clark, Shaun Mannagh
Out: Ollie Henry (injured)

Backs	38. Jack Henry 38 Jack Henry Age 26 Ht 192cm Wt 96kg Pos. Def Career Season Last 5 D 10.3 3star K 7.3 3star HB 2.9 3star M 4.0 4star T 2.2 4star MG 142.6 2star D 8.6 2star K 6.7 3star HB 1.9 1star M 3.9 4star T 2.1 3star MG 142.6 3star D 9.6 3star K 7.0 3star HB 2.6 3star M 3.6 4star T 2.0 4star	16. Sam De Koning	8. Jake Kolodjashnij 8 Jake Kolodjashnij Age 29 Ht 193cm Wt 100kg Pos. Def Career Season Last 5 D 12.4 3star K 6.9 3star HB 5.6 4star M 4.2 4star T 2.0 4star MG 148.5 2star D 10.6 3star K 7.0 3star HB 3.6 2star M 4.6 4star T 1.2 2star MG 115.6 2star D 11.8 3star K 5.4 2star HB 6.4 4star M 2.6 3star T 3.2 5star MG 69.4 1star
Half Backs	22. Mitch Duncan	44. Tom Stewart	34. Oisin Mullin
Centreline	46. Mark Blicavs 46 Mark Blicavs Age 33 Ht 198cm Wt 101kg Pos. M/R Career Season Last 5 D 14.5 4star K 6.6 3star HB 7.9 5star M 4.1 4star T 4.2 5star CL 1.7 4star D 11.1 3star K 7.1 3star HB 4.0 3star M 3.9 4star T 1.9 3star CL 0.1 2star D 8.6 3star K 2.0 1star HB 6.6 4star M 1.8 2star T 1.6 4star CL 2.0 4star	9. Max Holmes	2. Zach Tuohy 2 Zach Tuohy Age 34 Ht 187cm Wt 94kg Pos. Mid Career Season Last 5 D 17.7 4star K 11.2 4star HB 6.5 4star M 3.7 4star T 1.7 4star CL 0.7 3star D 18.9 4star K 15.4 5star HB 3.5 2star M 3.6 4star T 1.1 2star CL 1.1 3star D 11.4 3star K 7.0 3star HB 4.4 4star M 2.6 3star T 1.0 3star CL 0.4 3star
Half Forwards	45. Brad Close	5. Jeremy Cameron 5 Jeremy Cameron Age 31 Ht 196cm Wt 94kg Pos. Fwd Career Season Last 5 D 12.5 3star K 9.0 3star HB 3.4 3star M 5.4 5star T 1.6 4star G 2.6 5star D 10.0 3star K 7.1 3star HB 2.9 2star M 4.6 4star T 2.0 3star G 1.9 5star D 8.2 2star K 5.0 2star HB 3.2 3star M 4.6 5star T 2.4 4star G 2.0 5star	32. Gryan Miers 32 Gryan Miers Age 25 Ht 179cm Wt 81kg Pos. Fwd Career Season Last 5 D 15.4 4star K 9.1 4star HB 6.3 4star M 4.1 4star T 1.8 4star G 1.1 4star D 15.3 4star K 9.0 4star HB 6.3 4star M 4.6 4star T 1.6 3star G 0.9 4star D 14.4 4star K 8.4 4star HB 6.0 4star M 3.8 4star T 2.2 4star G 1.2 4star
Forwards	18. Tyson Stengle 18 Tyson Stengle Age 25 Ht 175cm Wt 71kg Pos. Fwd Career Season Last 5 D 9.3 2star K 5.8 2star HB 3.5 3star M 1.8 2star T 2.4 4star G 1.1 4star D 10.3 3star K 5.3 2star HB 5.0 3star M 1.3 1star T 2.0 3star G 0.5 4star D 8.8 3star K 5.6 3star HB 3.2 3star M 1.8 2star T 2.6 4star G 1.6 5star	26. Tom Hawkins 26 Tom Hawkins Age 36 Ht 197cm Wt 105kg Pos. Fwd Career Season Last 5 D 12.2 3star K 7.9 3star HB 4.4 3star M 5.5 5star T 1.9 4star G 2.1 5star D 12.7 3star K 8.6 3star HB 4.1 3star M 5.1 5star T 2.1 3star G 1.6 5star D 7.8 2star K 5.6 3star HB 2.2 2star M 4.2 4star T 1.0 3star G 2.2 5star	33. Shannon Neale
Followers	6. Toby Conway	30. Tom Atkins 30 Tom Atkins Age 28 Ht 180cm Wt 86kg Pos. D/M Career Season Last 5 D 11.5 3star K 5.0 2star HB 6.5 4star M 1.4 2star T 4.3 5star MG 123.5 2star D 6.5 1star K 3.0 1star HB 3.5 2star M 0.8 1star T 1.5 2star MG 100.0 2star D 11.6 3star K 5.0 2star HB 6.6 4star M 2.0 3star T 4.8 5star MG 130.0 3star	4. Tanner Bruhn
Interchange	39. Zach Guthrie 39 Zach Guthrie Age 26 Ht 188cm Wt 84kg Pos. Def Career Season Last 5 D 11.0 3star K 5.8 2star HB 5.2 4star M 3.3 3star T 1.8 4star MG 90.0 1star D 7.0 1star K 4.0 1star HB 3.0 2star M 1.0 1star T 1.0 2star MG 90.0 2star D 10.4 3star K 3.8 2star HB 6.6 4star M 2.0 3star T 1.6 4star	12. Jack Bowes 12 Jack Bowes Age 26 Ht 189cm Wt 85kg Pos. D/M Career Season Last 5 D 16.3 4star K 9.7 4star HB 6.6 4star M 3.9 4star T 2.5 4star MG 318.1 4star D 18.0 4star K 11.8 5star HB 6.3 4star M 5.4 5star T 1.1 2star MG 318.1 4star D 11.6 3star K 6.4 3star HB 5.2 4star M 2.8 3star T 2.4 4star	42. Mark O'Connor 42 Mark O'connor Age 27 Ht 189cm Wt 88kg Pos. D/M Career Season Last 5 D 13.2 3star K 8.1 3star HB 5.1 4star M 4.4 4star T 2.3 4star MG 174.8 3star D 12.4 3star K 8.9 4star HB 3.5 2star M 4.5 4star T 1.6 3star MG 199.8 3star D 10.4 3star K 4.8 2star HB 5.6 4star M 3.8 4star T 2.0 4star MG 67.4 1star
	13. Jhye Clark	23. Gary Rohan 23 Gary Rohan Age 33 Ht 189cm Wt 92kg Pos. Fwd Career Season Last 5 D 9.6 2star K 6.6 3star HB 3.0 3star M 3.3 3star T 2.5 4star G 1.0 4star D 8.8 2star K 6.0 2star HB 2.8 2star M 3.4 3star T 2.3 3star G 1.0 4star D 9.8 3star K 6.8 3star HB 3.0 3star M 2.2 3star T 4.2 5star G 1.2 4star	1. Rhys Stanley 1 Rhys Stanley Age 33 Ht 200cm Wt 102kg Pos. Ruck Career Season Last 5 D 13.6 3star K 7.2 3star HB 6.4 4star CL 3.4 5star HO 27.6 5star D 12.0 3star K 7.5 3star HB 4.5 3star CL 5.0 5star HO 21.5 5star D 11.8 3star K 5.4 2star HB 6.4 4star CL 3.0 5star HO 33.0 5star
	28. Oliver Dempsey	7. Shaun Mannagh

 

[cats_09]

BTW - Sydney's team

Sydney Swans v Geelong
3:20pm Sunday, June 9, SCG

Backs	Dane Rampe	Tom McCartin	Lewis Melican
Half Backs	Oliver Florent	Nick Blakey	Jake Lloyd
Centreline	Justin McInerney	Chad Warner	Errol Gulden
Half Forwards	Sam Wicks	Logan McDonald	Taylor Adams
Forwards	Tom Papley	Joel Amartey	Will Hayward
Followers	Brodie Grundy	Isaac Heeney	James Rowbottom
Interchange	Matt Roberts	Harry Cunningham	Hayden McLean
	James Jordon	Braeden Campbell	Caiden Cleary
	Aaron Francis	Peter Ladhams