Autopsy Rd 3 vs Swans. 19 point loss

[FRUMPY]

Sorry Arrow can’t agree on O’Brien just now. He was lost out there today. I’m afraid he might be a bust.

You see a few bits today that show what he is capable of. When he plays on instinct and doesn't have time to think he can be good. That kick to casboult was a daisy cutter, he has a beautiful kick when it's instinctual

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[__Bobcat__]

Ye

Yes. Levi. So many times in so many games he has missed at critical times. Yes he played well today. But FFS - if you expect to stay in the side, do your damn job.

Bash the Casboult,


More high profile players need such scrutiny .

 

[teknodeejay]

We desperately need a mid/fwd with pace like that. If the club agrees with you on Cuningham they should be straight into Papley's ear (edit - or perhaps should be regardless).

I have a lot less confidence than you in my ability to predict how good Cuningham will be. To me he's a bit of an enigma

I’ll agree to at least be optimistic. He’s still inexperienced.

 

[Blue and Blue]

In the first 2 rounds our running numbers were good. Today I still believe the effort was there.

The only problem was casboult's inclusion. It essentially means we have 2 ruckmen compared to their 1. And we are already a pretty tall team so we can ill afford to get taller. We were +1 tall and they had +1 runner (you could also argue marchbank in for garlett made it worse as well). So it was just a giant game of piggy in the middle. They had more numbers at the contest so they were always able to move the ball and there was always someone in the handball chain supporting the ball carrier. When that happens it can really look like the players aren't trying, but how enthusiastic does the piggy in the middle look after 5 minutes?

Cas' individual performance was okay but he absolutely kills us structurally. I'm happy to keep him in the team if mcgovern isn't fit next week but if at least 2 of our big 3 are fit then cas should be nowhere near the first team.

I disagree. It wasn't structure at all but skill errors as usual that cost us. Better known as the fumbles and trying too hard but not smart enough.
Last two weeks the whining was about us playing 1 ruck aganst 2. Cant win.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

We had some great players today.

Cripps and Walsh around the ball.

What a great example Cripps is to his teammates. I loved it in the last quarter when he carried Papley on his pack and shot out a handpass. The metaphorical reference was not lost on me. He carries our midfield in a similar fashion.

Walsh is a phenomenally gifted footballer. His goal in the first quarter sums up his work ethic. Wins the ball deep in defence. Follows the ball and takes a mark deep in our forward line. Calmly kicks the goal. He’s the best first year Carlton player I’ve seen in almost fifty years.

The much maligned players featured heavily today. Ed Curnow and Marc Murphy kicked goals, created opportunities to kick goals and worked hard all over the ground. Inspirational today.

Finally, Liam Jones on Buddy Franklin today was textbook one on one defending. There is no doubt in my mind that that Liam loves the ‘old style’ of football and has few peers in the game. A graduate of the Stephen Silvagni Academy of Defending.

 

[carlton2dabone]

Think you may have answered your own question, the 3 losses have been similar, to a top 4 side, a side on the fringe of finals and the Swans that will make finals again, where we have shown some level of consistency as the side continues to evolve

Just a quick question though, Bolton won 5 straight with a Hawks experienced side, does that mean he can coach?

To start the year with 3 losses that were identical to the previous weeks loss isn’t improving week to week, on top of that our losses this year have lots in common with our losses last year.

Some will say that we have improved because we are in better positions to win games and aren’t getting belted anymore, but that’s solely due to better talent on field as compared to last year.

Last year we had the likes of Graham, Kerridge, Shaw, Lamb, Wright etc playing and we’ve replaced them with much better players which has stopped the beltings for now, but the coaching continues to be the same as last year. Selections, game plan, lack of structures, lack of defensive running and pressure are a carbon copy of last year.

As to your question, Bolton’s 5 winning games at Hawthorn doesn’t prove he is a good enough coach as that Hawks could win even without any coach at all.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

I’ll agree to at least be optimistic. He’s still inexperienced.

I get it, hell Papley is inexperienced too he went in the rookie draft after Cuningham.

Would poach whoever does Sydney's rookie selections

 

[jansey]

Dow can’t play more than a half.. can’t kick.
Murphy chooses not to go in for the hard stuff.
We have the worst ruck division in the comp (always injured as well).
Another 2 mediocre quarters.
Gibbons, LOB, did nothing.
Simpson cooked.

Out: Gibbons, LOB
In: Kennedy, Sos

 

[azlou]

Not selecting Kennedy was just plain dumb coaching match comittee reflects badly on Bolts maybe he loves some players to much

 

[FRUMPY]

I don't want to see Gibbons again until he can get to the front of the pack and one-touch FFS.

Bit of play in the last when he and polson played fumbles with each other sums up their abilities

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[Soapy V]

Frustrating game because I really believed we were going to win.

The same issues that caused the losses the first 2 rounds IMO were the reasons we lost today. We try but we simply are too light and don't have the bodies to compete for 4 quarters especially against seasoned sides. I saw the Swans players live just before the bounce and they are just so much bigger. Even Walsh for all his talent and effort just gets pushed around

We are also obviously focussed on development. Playing Dow Fisher Walsh etc in the middle ahead of Ed, Murphy, Thomas etc shows what we are trying to do. We want them to earn the win more than just have the older players do it. Having said that our biggest list issue is that 25 year old mature body. We need some and desperately. Easier for young players to step in when they have lots of good support. At the moment we don't. That will addressed at the end of the year.

I don't agree with people saying it's a coaching issue. Coaches don't do the execution. IMO if we weren't so well organised and structured we would be thrashed the first 3 weeks. You can definitely see a structure live and you can see when it falls apart because of fatigue or inexperience. We need to persist.

The McGovern loss was huge. We gave it everything and to have him up forward could have made a big difference. I liked the McGovern/McKay/Casboult forward line when we were getting some clean ball.

I thought Polson Plowman LOB Gibbons were very poor. A more even contribution is also vital. Gibbons I feel sorry for. He's a mid and a good one. Why he isn't part of the rotations I don't understand. LOB was given a role to defend a side of the ground and I didn't like that either. Lobbe struggled. Ruck is a real issue for us at the moment.

Plowman worries me as a defender. At the stage he should be stepping up but isn't. Weitering & Jones were superb today. Marchbank okay but I didn't see the need to rush him back. Setterfield is now paying for not having a full pre season. Dow the same. Like many others they need a big pre season and some increased strength.

Cripps was superb. Especially considering the attention he copped.

Simpson Thomas Murphy are close to the end and fair enough. They can't keep carrying this young group.

We are getting there but today highlighted how long the rebuild takes. We simply don't have the experience or bodies to play consistent football week in week out. That is a fact. Our list is very unbalanced age wise.

Get Charlie McGovern Cuningham Kennedy Jack fit and into that side and we will be greatly improved.

We just need to keep developing and growing. I said this year was all about ups and downs and nothing has changed. We are still way ahead of last year. The effort is great and the talent is there.

I know it doesn't suit many but PATIENCE is needed and for more than a few weeks. We are still a minimum 12 months and another pre season away from consistent AFL football. Can't get around it.

Still very confident we are on the right path. Big picture!

PS Kennedy pulled up very sore after last week and it was decided he wasn't fit for AFL. Russell decision

 

[FRUMPY]

Geez at one point setterfield was a dead ringer for kouta with a balk, side step and shot at goal (it missed)

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[dumb]

We've played 3 games and none of them have been against what you might consider our equals, one of the basket case sides. Usually by this point of most seasons we've beaten Essendon.

 

[juddanaught09]

I get it, hell Papley is inexperienced too he went in the rookie draft after Cuningham.

Would poach whoever does Sydney's rookie selections

We already have.

https://m.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-01-31/two-new-additions-to-recruiting-team

 

[JavaBlue]

Watch Sydney Stack dominate for the tiger's just to rub it in.

God I was hoping we'd pick him up late but no, we went for Finbar and the like.

 

[BlueGum]

Swans were a better team. They do more 1%’s than us. Little blocks, leading to create space, always kicking - when to a contest- to their advantage. They know what each player is going to do.

We’re a ways from this happening. I actually thought our players individually were as hard, if not harder than the opposition. They did it smarter for each other.
QUOTE]
This. Hope the game reviews this week highlight the team play and hard work of the swans. We're not far off if we concentrate on doing more without the ball. Kinda like Jones' job today.

Jones, Cripps, Weiters, Ed, Walsh v good

 

[mario bortallotto]

We lacked execution when the game was there to be won, in time as these kids continue to mature that will come. A number of players we so very poor by foot, way to poor

Harry was outstanding, now holds the record for contested marks for the first 3 round of any season

Jones and Weitering once again outstanding given the quality of Swan's forwards and the quality of entries

SPS and Ed can hold their heads high

If some of our more talented players attacked the contest like Levi today, things may have been different

Newman, Dow, Walsh, Murphy while, they had plenty of the ball and were the main offenders by foot


Please, our main priorities are players with speed and that are great users by foot and a modern day ruckman

i had very similar thoughts arrow ...jones and weits big thumbs up

Desperately need a gun small forward

Desperately need a gun small defender

Desperately need Doc or another gun running HB with elite foot skills - Lachie Whitfield please

i just hope doc can be doc when he returns

 

[Arr0w]

To start the year with 3 losses that were identical to the previous weeks loss isn’t improving week to week, on top of that our losses this year have lots in common with our losses last year.

Some will say that we have improved because we are in better positions to win games and aren’t getting belted anymore, but that’s solely due to better talent on field as compared to last year.

Last year we had the likes of Graham, Kerridge, Shaw, Lamb, Wright etc playing and we’ve replaced them with much better players which has stopped the beltings for now, but the coaching continues to be the same as last year. Selections, game plan, lack of structures, lack of defensive running and pressure are a carbon copy of last year.

As to your question, Bolton’s 5 winning games at Hawthorn doesn’t prove he is a good enough coach as that Hawks could win even without any coach at all.

So we have mitigated the margin in the firts 3 rounds compared to last year, yet that is nothing more than players having more experience? Is that not what I have been saying?

Of course we have improved the quality of our list, Setterfield in his 5th game, Walsh in his 3rd, Mcgovern who has yet to play 75 not to mention the countless young players still developing

Weitering, McKay, Charlie at the start of their 4th years, how are they travelling at the moment?

The majority of this group need games under their belt

 

[Beer n Skittles]

The good:
Jones was in Franklin's head all game. Demoralised him.

Walsh is very impressive. The times we moved the ball fluidly generally seemed to be driven by him and his follow up efforts. Was also very good at closing up space after Sydney would switch the ball. He looked like he worked harder than our senior players, and the afl app shows he covered the most kms.

Cripps did Cripps things.

The bad:
The few times I spotted Gibbons it looked to me like he was chasing McVeigh around. Possibly a hard tag? If it was it seems like it was pretty ineffectual, I doubt we'll try that again.

O'Brien was poor, and his direct opponent for much of the match was excellent. Double whammy.

Too many of Setterfield's disposals involved crumbing the ball off our leading forwards, then bombing it back over their head to the space they just emptied that is now full of Sydney defenders.

Simpson looked slow.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

In the first 2 rounds our running numbers were good. Today I still believe the effort was there.

The only problem was casboult's inclusion. It essentially means we have 2 ruckmen compared to their 1. And we are already a pretty tall team so we can ill afford to get taller. We were +1 tall and they had +1 runner (you could also argue marchbank in for garlett made it worse as well). So it was just a giant game of piggy in the middle. They had more numbers at the contest so they were always able to move the ball and there was always someone in the handball chain supporting the ball carrier. When that happens it can really look like the players aren't trying, but how enthusiastic does the piggy in the middle look after 5 minutes?

Cas' individual performance was okay but he absolutely kills us structurally. I'm happy to keep him in the team if mcgovern isn't fit next week but if at least 2 of our big 3 are fit then cas should be nowhere near the first team.

Running numbers don't reflect outside spread. We spent most of the day chasing tail

Frustrating game because I really believed we were going to win.

The same issues that caused the losses the first 2 rounds IMO were the reasons we lost today. We try but we simply are too light and don't have the bodies to compete for 4 quarters especially against seasoned sides. I saw the Swans players live just before the bounce and they are just so much bigger. Even Walsh for all his talent and effort just gets pushed around

We are also obviously focussed on development. Playing Dow Fisher Walsh etc in the middle ahead of Ed, Murphy, Thomas etc shows what we are trying to do. We want them to earn the win more than just have the older players do it. Having said that our biggest list issue is that 25 year old mature body. We need some and desperately. Easier for young players to step in when they have lots of good support. At the moment we don't. That will addressed at the end of the year.

I don't agree with people saying it's a coaching issue. Coaches don't do the execution. IMO if we weren't so well organised and structured we would be thrashed the first 3 weeks. You can definitely see a structure live and you can see when it falls apart because of fatigue or inexperience. We need to persist.

The McGovern loss was huge. We gave it everything and to have him up forward could have made a big difference. I liked the McGovern/McKay/Casboult forward line when we were getting some clean ball.

I thought Polson Plowman LOB Gibbons were very poor. A more even contribution is also vital. Gibbons I feel sorry for. He's a mid and a good one. Why he isn't part of the rotations I don't understand. LOB was given a role to defend a side of the ground and I didn't like that either. Lobbe struggled. Ruck is a real issue for us at the moment.

Plowman worries me as a defender. At the stage he should be stepping up but isn't. Weitering & Jones were superb today. Marchbank okay but I didn't see the need to rush him back. Setterfield is now paying for not having a full pre season. Dow the same. Like many others they need a big pre season and some increased strength.

Cripps was superb. Especially considering the attention he copped.

Simpson Thomas Murphy are close to the end and fair enough. They can't keep carrying this young group.

We are getting there but today highlighted how long the rebuild takes. We simply don't have the experience or bodies to play consistent football week in week out. That is a fact. Our list is very unbalanced age wise.

Get Charlie McGovern Cuningham Kennedy Jack fit and into that side and we will be greatly improved.

We just need to keep developing and growing. I said this year was all about ups and downs and nothing has changed. We are still way ahead of last year. The effort is great and the talent is there.

I know it doesn't suit many but PATIENCE is needed and for more than a few weeks. We are still a minimum 12 months and another pre season away from consistent AFL football. Can't get around it.

Still very confident we are on the right path. Big picture!

PS Kennedy pulled up very sore after last week and it was decided he wasn't fit for AFL. Russell decision

Agree with the majority of that Soap. It's hard to be patient but there is clearly improvement that you can see. Sydney just harder bodies and slicker in transition.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

We already have.

https://m.carltonfc.com.au/news/2018-01-31/two-new-additions-to-recruiting-team

Damn, we need to start using the rookie list for more than just recycled players, vfl players and athletes then.

 

[BRADLESTICKS]

The good
Cripps was Cripps but has to carry to much of the load.

Walsh was brilliant a running machine.

Harry/Levi competed and presented well even when outnumbered, but put in a ridiculous position of having to fight for their own crumb all the time due to lack of small forward.

Jones/Weitering worked well together for the third game in a row this season.

Ed, he and Kreuzer are the heart and soul of our club, will try his heart out no matter what position he’s played in.

SPS another solid game and is our best user by foot.

The bad

Lochie O’Brien, he should never have been picked as he is simply not ready for senior football, I hate saying this but I can’t think of a Carlton player I’ve seen more afraid of body contact in 30 years of watching the blues (Kane lucas included) he should be developing in the reserves the entire year hopefully it’s just a confidence issue but he’s nowhere near ready.

Newman, I think we found out today why Sydney didn’t fight to hard to keep him terrible decision making and question marks over his fitness level, many times left other backman high and dry. Will though play most of the year due to do doc and willo’s Injuries.

Lobbe, tried hard but the first three weeks have shown he and Phillips aren’t afl standard desperately need Kreuzer back.

Gibbons/Polson the stats speak for themselves but the the most annoying thing for me today was we had two key forwards who created a terrific contest but then had to crumb their own ball when outnumbered, where were polson and gibbons at their feet they are simply not natural forwards and should not be getting games there, they are reserves midfielders at this stage of their career, Fasolo and Garlett while not great options are far better options than these two as forwards, shows how much of a priority it should be at the end of the year.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Who played poorly today?

We had a small to medium problem at both ends of the ground today.

Between them Gibbons and Polson didn’t do enough to have the effect of one player. Not enough possessions, tackles and didn’t hit the scoreboard. Lochie O’Brien looked like he hadn’t played a game of footy today. 18 games last year should have prepared him for the hurly burly today. He just looked panicked when he got near the ball.

At the other end of the ground it was our smaller defenders who failed to give us run out of the backline. Newman worries me because he’s very one sided. Daisy gives effort but that wasn’t good enough today. Simmo was as poor as I’ve seen him today. I noticed him down behind the game in the second quarter. He then clashed with Hayward in a contest for the ball. Maybe those hits took a toll.

Lobbe gets a tick for his efforts in the ruck contest. However, like Phillips, he gives little around the ground. We miss Kreuzer. At the moment we can’t get his influence from the other ruckman. Lobbe wasn’t poor he just isn’t Kreuzer.

 

[__Bobcat__]

Medalion Club was Grouse!!

 

[thylacine60]

So someone tell me why we desperately had to get Marchbank and LOB in? LOB had a nice kick or two but looks miles off it. Marchbank is like I-can’t-believe-it’s-not-Weitering. Tall, dark, handsome, slow, but doesn’t have anywhere near the presence of the bionic one. Why did we need him? To control raging third gamer Blakey? Meanwhile any Swan under 6’2 had a day out.

what? he was solid all day and will build on it - non-sensical.......