This is true too.. one less potential "elite" player from Rendell's time in charge.
Then again, wasn't it Walker who was the driving force, with Fantasia not so keen on recruiting him? Ahh.. so long ago, I'm sure my memory is playing tricks on me.
Toast Reasons I have nominated Charlie Cameron as the best thing to happen to the crows last year include.
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Then again, wasn't it Walker who was the driving force, with Fantasia not so keen on recruiting him? Ahh.. so long ago, I'm sure my memory is playing tricks on me.
Talia / Davis was some fine drafting as well.
Talia has show he has what it takes to be an elite defender - still needs to do it obviously.
You'd argue Davis was the same.. you'd also argue Davis set us up to get Crouch who I am convinced is going to be elite. (but let's not trust my opinion
)
Talia has show he has what it takes to be an elite defender - still needs to do it obviously.
You'd argue Davis was the same.. you'd also argue Davis set us up to get Crouch who I am convinced is going to be elite. (but let's not trust my opinion
)
If we're only accepting someone of Dangerfield's quality as being elite (and excluding the likes of Walker, Sloane, Talia etc) then I would say yes, 1 elite player in 5 years is a reasonable return.
You can't expect to draft someone of Dangerfield's quality every second year with your first selections in the teens.
You can't expect to draft someone of Dangerfield's quality every second year with your first selections in the teens.
Tex's best is still only 63 goals in a single season. To be elite, he needs to kick 80+ in a season. He might get there, he might not. Yes, 80+ is arbitrary - but it's as good a cutoff point as any.
Talia may get to be elite, but that's by no means a certainty. He's certainly a very, very good player, but right now he's not even close enough to "elite" to make the AA extended squad.
For me, "elite" means to be the best 1 or 2 players in that position in the entire league - and to maintain that level consistently for several years. Right now, Dangerfield is the only one who meets that criteria.
Talia may get to be elite, but that's by no means a certainty. He's certainly a very, very good player, but right now he's not even close enough to "elite" to make the AA extended squad.
For me, "elite" means to be the best 1 or 2 players in that position in the entire league - and to maintain that level consistently for several years. Right now, Dangerfield is the only one who meets that criteria.
If we're going to define elite as "best 1 or 2 players in the entire league" then there can only be maybe ten or twelve elite players in the entire competition at any given point, and you've also specified they need to remain at that level for several years. Let's say five years. Then Recruiting one every five years would put us ahead of the curve. (All else being equal, you'd expect around 12/16 elite players in that period, or rather 12/18 nowadays with the two extra teams... that's before our later-than-average first picks are taken into account).
By any reasonable measure, Rendell's first round selections were well superior to what could have been expected.
By any reasonable measure, Rendell's first round selections were well superior to what could have been expected.
To be fair he did say 'in that position'. Not sure if Vader is saying 36ish elite's or more like 20 if you consider a back pocket is a back pocket is sometimes a HBF.
Even if its 20 to 30 elites at a time - you're still going great guns to get 1 every 5 years if you don't have top 5 picks.
Even if its 20 to 30 elites at a time - you're still going great guns to get 1 every 5 years if you don't have top 5 picks.
Given that there are 22 players in a team, 1-2 players per position, combined with the consistency criteria, means that there would be around 30-40 players qualifying for "elite" at any given point in time.
It is my belief that Dangerfield is the only player currently on Adelaide's list who qualifies.
It is my belief that Dangerfield is the only player currently on Adelaide's list who qualifies.
So who are the elite left back pockets? What if there are 6 right half forward flankers who are all better than the best left half forward flanker? Is it possible to be an elite interchange player or better still, sub?
You're talking shit to justify your point which flies in the face of all available evidence when compared to objective league averages and the subjective "eye test".
Rendell was outrageously good. He absolutely nailed each and every first rounder he got, despite the fact that they were all at or outside pick 10. Whatever you might say about the manner of his departure and what has followed (no mention of Collingwood, Nicky Winmar and the "stench of racism" lately, which is probably not a coincidence), it is absolutely fair to deify his recruiting work.
You're talking shit to justify your point which flies in the face of all available evidence when compared to objective league averages and the subjective "eye test".
Rendell was outrageously good. He absolutely nailed each and every first rounder he got, despite the fact that they were all at or outside pick 10. Whatever you might say about the manner of his departure and what has followed (no mention of Collingwood, Nicky Winmar and the "stench of racism" lately, which is probably not a coincidence), it is absolutely fair to deify his recruiting work.
Sorry, but that's garbage, from top to bottom.
He did well in hitting with all of his 1st round selections, but he's only marginally ahead of the league average there (given the small sample size and the league average being 60-70%). His second round selections are nothing special (compared to the league average) and he barely had any hits at all in the later rounds (Sloane is likely to be his only 100+ game player selected in the 3rd round or later).
He's made to look like a genius by comparison with the staggering incompetence that preceded him. He certainly doesn't deserve deification.
Did he improve our recruiting? Absolutely. It couldn't have possibly been any worse than it was under the Fantasia/Ayres combination. Did he achieve enough to justify the way he's deified by some? Not even close.
He did well in hitting with all of his 1st round selections, but he's only marginally ahead of the league average there (given the small sample size and the league average being 60-70%). His second round selections are nothing special (compared to the league average) and he barely had any hits at all in the later rounds (Sloane is likely to be his only 100+ game player selected in the 3rd round or later).
He's made to look like a genius by comparison with the staggering incompetence that preceded him. He certainly doesn't deserve deification.
Did he improve our recruiting? Absolutely. It couldn't have possibly been any worse than it was under the Fantasia/Ayres combination. Did he achieve enough to justify the way he's deified by some? Not even close.
I wonder how many players who are not considered that good would have been good at another club. How much does the club affect the player? If we drafted Ebert instead of Dangerfield, could Ebert have been a better player? If Danger went to Melbourne would he be the same player he is now? I'm sure he would still be good but picking a player is just one thing. What if we drafted Gunston now we have a reserves team, would he still feel alienated/left/whatever he was?
We draft on potential, but it is the club, the playing group, the training methods, etc that turn the potential into a good footballer. Rendell drafted some gems but he wasnt the one that turned them into good players.
We draft on potential, but it is the club, the playing group, the training methods, etc that turn the potential into a good footballer. Rendell drafted some gems but he wasnt the one that turned them into good players.
Kane McGoodwin
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If Tex (when fit) is not in the top-4 key forwards under this methodology, I'll eat my hat.
Rendell was the one not keen on him.
I said:
Top to bottom
100% v 60-70%
50% v 20-30%
I would love to be marginally ahead of the league average and/or nothing special on an ongoing basis.
Kane McGoodwin
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Correct.Top to bottom
100% v 60-70%
50% v 20-30%
I would love to be marginally ahead of the league average and/or nothing special on an ongoing basis.
The bottom line is most of the players drafted under Rendell would have been taken earlier, had all clubs had the benefit of hindsight. Rendell has performed well above average for the picks at his disposal. Imagine if he had more top 10 picks in his time...
Will Charlie Cameron reach elite status?
As a rookie if he was to do this shouldn't there be questions asked about the recruiting system in general?
As a rookie if he was to do this shouldn't there be questions asked about the recruiting system in general?
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Reasons I have nominated Charlie Cameron as the best thing to happen to the crows last year include;
In his first year, in his first pre season, he sparks a debate on the definition of Elite.
In his first year, in his first pre season, he sparks a debate on the definition of Elite.
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Better give Collingwood a buzz and give them the bad news
Hank93
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Last time a player kicked 80 goals+ in a season was 2009, so think 80 is far too high a bar to set.
60 would put you well inside the top 5 forwards in the comp.
The question is, if Charlie Cameron doesn't reach elite status then... Actually don't bother. He's already there.
What's Collingwood got to do with this?
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That they hired a lemon recruiter who's got no better results than the average
Leaving out some of the stupidity, surely the best answer of a picks value is whether the player develops after a couple of years to be worth more in trade than the original pick.
An awful lot of Matty R's work in the early round qualifies under that criteria, a lot higher than the average
An awful lot of Matty R's work in the early round qualifies under that criteria, a lot higher than the average
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