Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Weak claims.
Price has lead the campaign that changed a 70% vote to the 40s. IF you need someone to blame look at Minister Burney who has overseen that deterioration.
'Perhaps' is in fact respectful of your position.

Interesting claim of yours ....I have seen and experienced more to do with Aboriginal people than she ever will.

Not a claim, it is a fact.

 

[killtaker1993]

But we won't be quiet on Saturday. Because we all have a voice. And that is something you need to come to terms with.

Irony 101

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Yep.

People talking like the truth of what has happened to Indigenous Australians since colonisation is hidden.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

We’ve had documentaries, reports, theses, movies and Royal Commission s at State and Federal level. In contrast to the silence on Indigenous history and experiences that characterised my youth and education, it is impossible for anyone not to have heard the horrors of Indigenous experiences over the past 20 years or more.

And just last month the independent Productivity Commission issued a report damning EVERY state, territory and Federal Government on their continuing failure to do anything about the huge gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous life outcomes. They strongly supported an Indigenous Voice to inform policymakers.

Nah the problem isn’t that the story isn’t being told.

‘The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars. But in ourselves’

Yes. We are the ones responsible for our own actions, not fate. Always. Everyone.

What is the voice? One person's truth is that it's genocide for indigenous people. Another person's truth is that it's a declaration of war against non indigenous. Two diametrically opposed views earnestly held simultaneously.

Another saying is that history is what the historians tell us it is.

I always seek the objective truth. But you're not always given the objective truth. More often you are fed someone's subjective truth that's important to them and have to filter it

Ive had enough of the voice debate and the utter BS on both sides. Not sure I can handle more truth telling TBH.

Ive been recently watching the documentary 'First Australians'. Got a sense that at times it was storytelling and may have had limited connection to truth. Marcia Langton for instance was giving commentary and in one case about spearing of Governor Phillip in 1790. Bennelong had been at a feast with his clan at Manly Cove. Phillip turned up seeking to have him return to be his guide again. One of the clan became agitated and speared Phillip just above the collar bone on the right shoulder and penetrating to the third vertebrae. Miracle it didn't pierce any major arteries and kill him. ML take on it was that it was punishment and had he really wanted to kill him he would have ie he knew instinctively because of his marksmanship that it wouldn't kill him and somehow too it was known that said marksman had ample detailed knowledge of anatomy to avoid a fatal bleed. What a load of absolute BS!!! Phillip shouldn't have taken Bennelong hostage at the start. So justice. To his credit despite the 10' spear protruding from his flesh Philip demanded his troops not retaliate. He somehow realised it was cultural payback for some indiscretion at least that's what was told. I lost all interest at that point because the story was simply that.....a story which may or may not have been true. I don't believe that a person throwing a spear using a woomera could know they wouldn't kill someone hitting them above the collar bone. Rubbish.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Yes. We are the ones responsible for our own actions, not fate. Always. Everyone.

What is the voice? One person's truth is that it's genocide for indigenous people. Another person's truth is that it's a declaration of war against non indigenous. Two diametrically opposed views earnestly held simultaneously.

Another saying is that history is what the historians tell us it is.

I always seek the objective truth. But you're not always given the objective truth. More often you are fed someone's subjective truth that's important to them. and have to filter it

Ive had enough of the voice debate and the utter BS on both sides. Not sure I can handle more truth telling TBH.

Ive been recently watching The documentary ' First Australians'. Got a sense that at times it was a story. Marcia Langton for instance was giving commentary and in one case about spearing of Governor Phillip in 1790. Bennelong had been at a feast with his clan at Manly Cove. Phillip turned up seeking to have him return to be his guide again. One of the clan became agitated and speared Phillip just above the collar bone on the right shoulder and penetrating to the third vertebrae. Miracle it didn't piece any major arteries and kill him. ML take on it was that it was punishment and had he really wanted to kill him he would have ie he knew instinctively because of his marksmanship that it wouldn't kill him and somehow too it was known that said marksman had ample detailed knowledge of anatomy to avoid a fatal bleed. What a load of absolute BS!!! Phillip shouldn't have taken Bennelong hostage at the start. So justice. To his credit despite the 10' spear protruding from his flesh Philip demanded his troops not retaliate. He somehow realised it was cultural payback for some indiscretion at least that's what was told. I lost all interest at that point because the story was simply that.....a story which may or may not have been true. I don't believe that a person throwing a spear using a woomera could know they wouldn't kill someone hitting them above the collar bone. Rubbish.

'A declaration of war against non' 'Aboriginal'. Oh my goodness, is this what we are really dealing with.

 

[Kram]

I think I'll go put in my informal vote on Friday.

The whole thing is a load of shit and I'm over it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

'A declaration of war against non' 'Aboriginal'. Oh my goodness, is this what we are really dealing with.

Warren Mundine yeah. What utter rubbish.....and Lydia Thorpe was the genocide remark regarding the constitution

 

[South of the Yarra]

I think I'll go put in my informal vote on Friday.

The whole thing is a load of s**t and I'm over it.

No different to the last 200 years for Aboriginal people.

 

[phantom13]

“We shouldn’t do truth telling after the vote inevitably fails cause white people don’t like being told off”

I’m white and frankly I’m a bit ****ing sick of the preciousness most of us exhibit.

If Indigenous Australia wants to do truth telling after we **** up the voice vote (which most polls still show has 80+% support from Indigenous Australians) I think maybe we should stop trying to tell them what to do.

We don’t want to give you a voice and recognition in parliament, we don’t want to hear your truth telling, we don’t want to help you or listen to you. That’s the message white Australia continues to send, over and over and over and then we’re shocked when we see angry black men and women.

The privelege is pretty embarassing at this point.

 

[nut]

How much you earning Chief … I know you can’t control banner adds … but!

 

[Sqotty from office works]

I think I'll go put in my informal vote on Friday.

The whole thing is a load of s**t and I'm over it.

I'm on the Murray River border.
Spoken to over a 100 people who have no idea what the vote is about.
Yes ignorance lives, but this referendum looks doomed.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

While at the same time they whinge that he is spending too much time on it. Without showing him spending time on it, whilst platforming the NO campaign spending all their time on it.

Tough being in charge, you can't just pick and choose what you want pipe up about, you have to lead for everyone and prioritise.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

How much you earning Chief … I know you can’t control banner adds … but!

Chief isn't there meant to be a blackout of YES/NO ads between now and Saturday?

Or does that only apply to traditional media?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Not sure if this has been brought up before, but it seems voting centers are more sparse than usual. I'm usually within a 10 minute walk of my local voting center which is typically at a school or community center. This year, every location is driving distance away.

Has the AEC been given a budget cut?

I think early vote centres are same as last election (ie not the same as election day)

 

[TheEscapeClub]

So what has she done since then? Joined the IPA, got her Qantas Chairmans Lounge pass and started praising Murdoch.

She is by definition, one of the elites that she says she is against. An absolute hypocrite.

She has been banging her head against a wall over this for years.

Politicians are petrified of doing anything meaningful lest they get labelled as racists.

Maybe she thinks she can get more traction from within.

Who really knows?

 

[Gough]

She has been banging her head against a wall over this for years.

Politicians are petrified of doing anything meaningful lest they get labelled as racists.

Maybe she thinks she can get more traction from within.

Who really knows?

How is making trans people her "next target" when all this is over as she loudly proclaimed going to help Indigenous people in her community and WTAF does that have to with her shadow portfolio?

 

[TheEscapeClub]

She is not representative of Aboriginal people but is representative of her own party and her own ambition. To say she has seen more than most is ridiculous. She has very little idea of what happens in Aboriginal communities. She is not fighting for these innocent victims, if she was she would be there at ground level supporting them. ‘Perhaps you were unaware of these things’ is pretty narrow minded as you don’t know me. I have seen and experienced more to do with Aboriginal people than she ever will. Voting no is turning your back on Aboriginal people. ‘We won’t be quiet on Saturday’ Yes you will as you will leave Aboriginal people stranded like you have for the past 200 years.

She was at ground level for years.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

How is making trans people her "next target" when all this is over as she loudly proclaimed going to help Indigenous people in her community and WTAF does that have to with her shadow portfolio?

Focus on the topic at hand, we can deal with her, 'next target' when and if that happens.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

She has been banging her head against a wall over this for years.

Politicians are petrified of doing anything meaningful lest they get labelled as racists.

Maybe she thinks she can get more traction from within.

Who really knows?

She has told us exactly who she is. An IPA/Murdoch shill.

 

[CM86]

Ive had enough of the voice debate and the utter BS on both sides. Not sure I can handle more truth telling TBH.

Ive been recently watching the documentary 'First Australians'. Got a sense that at times it was storytelling and may have had limited connection to truth. Marcia Langton for instance was giving commentary and in one case about spearing of Governor Phillip in 1790. Bennelong had been at a feast with his clan at Manly Cove. Phillip turned up seeking to have him return to be his guide again. One of the clan became agitated and speared Phillip just above the collar bone on the right shoulder and penetrating to the third vertebrae. Miracle it didn't pierce any major arteries and kill him. ML take on it was that it was punishment and had he really wanted to kill him he would have ie he knew instinctively because of his marksmanship that it wouldn't kill him and somehow too it was known that said marksman had ample detailed knowledge of anatomy to avoid a fatal bleed. What a load of absolute BS!!! Phillip shouldn't have taken Bennelong hostage at the start. So justice. To his credit despite the 10' spear protruding from his flesh Philip demanded his troops not retaliate. He somehow realised it was cultural payback for some indiscretion at least that's what was told. I lost all interest at that point because the story was simply that.....a story which may or may not have been true. I don't believe that a person throwing a spear using a woomera could know they wouldn't kill someone hitting them above the collar bone. Rubbish.

?

Pretty hostile response to a documentary.
And such a weird story to share in this thread.

Why did you share it?
It comes across as you opposing 'Truth Telling', in that you think it's dishonest and you've had enough of it?

 

[Gough]

Focus on the topic at hand, we can deal with her, 'next target' when and if that happens.

This anti Voice stance is all part of her political shtick as a hard-line, conservative woman, and this campaign has been her coming out party.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The actual processing time is pretty much the same as an election.
--------------------------------------------
"Are you entitled to vote early in this referendum "? " My dog ate my carkeys, i cannot get to the polling place on saturday "
"So that would be a yes"? "Yes ".
"Surname please" "Sabadatjhajarus Maklubmoblius "
"Um can you spell that " "SABADATJHAJARUS MAKLUBMOBLIUS , its spelt the normal way "
"Um....... " "Fine here is my drivers license "
Initial paper.
"Have you voted before in this referendum " "Yes "
"You voted before ...in this referendum " ? "ohhh in this one ...No "
"Now you just need to put a YES or a NO in this box, then place it in the ballot box near the door on the way out"
"Can i put an X in the box "? "No"
"Thank you"
-----------------------
Its really the same except only one sheet of paper needing an initial.

Obviously the counting process after the polls close on Saturday will be a lot faster and easier.

Neither my wife or I were asked for any form of id.

 

[CM86]

I understand that Israel has just been attacked by terrorists. (I condemn)​

And that there were people chanting "kill all Jews" at a rally in Sydney recently.​

​

But I think Australian's are just sick of being moralised to.​

The working Aussie is fed up with being lectured about the innocent lives lost, trauma and harm done to Israelis, including children.​

​

Calling everyone heartless or racist, just for having different opinions.​

​

And now it's being shoved down our throats constantly...​

Real Australian's are worried about the cost of living. That's our priority.​

​

I don't support the attacks on Israel, but if anything would make people start supporting it, it's the obnoxious lecturing from the woke Twitterati calling everyone racist just for having a different opinion!!!​

Why is this such an obviously ridiculous argument for almost any other scenario, but is considered reasonable against Indigenous recognition and Closing the Gap?

 

[CM86]

Neither my wife or I were asked for any form of id.

Is this some anti-AEC conspiracy now?

Latest disinformation attack?

 

[mcnulty]

Is this some anti-AEC conspiracy now?

Latest disinformation attack?

Presumably just a statement of fact. I wasn’t asked for ID either.

 

[Gough]

Presumably just a statement of fact. I wasn’t asked for ID either.

Had you ever been asked before? In thirty years I haven't.