Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Caesar]

The seat of Durack in Northern WA where Aboriginal youth suicide has been so prevalent and such a talking point. A key symbol of Aboriginal disparity.

Result: 73% no.

How does that happen?

I mean we are all just speculating

I would say in general rural people are far more skeptical of government’s ability to make their lives better, and doubly so when it comes to ‘government advisory bodies’

But the relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous people in rural areas is also wildly different to what you see in major cities

Then you have educational differences, economic differences, a million other things

Rural and metro Australia are extremely different places, neither really understands the other very well

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Nobody can affford avocado toast!

Bullshit and you know it. I find most people that whinge and make it vocal about cost of living are the ones that live comfortably. It's just they can't go on that overseas holiday and have to sacrifice for a little while. Can't take those arguments seriously at all.

 

[Tyrohad]

Not going to mention that in Kennedy, we had 'yes' campaigners targeting only indigenous voters going to their properties to persuade them?

So much for a fair democratic process when one side of the campaign had to do that. I didn't know why they were doing it at the time but it makes sense when you have ********s like this who will pull out the racism card and claim the "80%" after that fact.

Those communities in Kennedy where majority are indigenous i.e. Doomadgee need local voices, not a federal one that's out of touch with what happens in those communities.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

What an imbecile PM knowing this was a Hail Mary months out, 400m on this instead of addressing the cost of living crisis. Arrogant to just arrive in office and then try and change constitution knowing Australians weren't united on this as a solution. Now the left are pulling their favourite words from their text book - misinformation, racist, uneducated. Epic fail of a campaign, failed to properly tell us how the voice is formed. If it involved activists then thank god the no vote got up. Welcome to country being slammed down out throats did the no vote a big favour too.

 

[Chief]

You think there is an appetite for abolishing police and prisons?

I do not think that the Blak Sovereignty movement will be much more than a fringe movement. I don't know that they have a single view on prisons and policing. You are repeating "scare" tactics.

What I said was:

It was no lie that many people DO want to see more land returned to indigenous people, better policing, better options over incarceration.

 

[Cmarsh]

I mean we are all just speculating

I would say in general rural people are far more skeptical of government’s ability to make their lives better, and doubly so when it comes to ‘government advisory bodies’

But the relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous people in rural areas is also wildly different to what you see in major cities

Then you have educational differences, economic differences, a million other things

Rural and metro Australia are extremely different places, neither really understands the other very well

I think the rural/city devide will be reinforced from this vote.

 

[Tyrohad]

Or maybe because of some other reason.

I'm indigenous dumbarse...

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Its a very white left wing thing to criticize white people generally for political results they dont like, while ignoring ethnically diverse minorities for the political decisions they make.

The ethnically diverse heavy Western Sydney seats were all strongly no, but you won't hear labels of racism about them. Those same seats were also strongly no for the same sex marriage plebiscite. Didnt hear left wing criticism about it though.

As I stated earlier they are racist. Nobody wants to open that can of worms which is why it never gets discussed. Dinosaurs alot of them and very fearful. I live and breathe it trust me.

 

[Cmarsh]

I do not think that the Blak Sovereignty movement will be much more than a fringe movement. I don't know that they have a single view on prisons and policing. You are repeating "scare" tactics.

What I said was:

Its on their website.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

there's been some interesting discussion in this thread about the responsibility of voters.

a voter's foremost responsibility is to appear at the booth to vote, over and above educating themselves on the topic. the education bit is a 'nice to have', not a legislated necessity.
if we're distrustful of the general public and think of them as idiots, then starting from the position of placing the responsibility of informing themselves in voters hands is clearly a misstep. perhaps it's better to engage them on whatever their dung-heap is with very short words.

i share your distrust of people and their motivations for not searching this stuff out (and am guilty of it, too). i've been wondering what the public might do if all the pamphlet mother*ers, how to voters, tv ads etc were banished from the political landscape. and individuals instead had to seek out (were directed to) a more central source, like a political party website, to inform themselves.
would we be more educated? maybe. we'd certainly be happier. we'd be less prone to misinformation, less money spent, less trees exctincted. and anyone with even the slightest motivation would seek out that central source instead of being subject to whatever infiltration marketing dollars bought. it's probably more a fantasy of mine rather than a realistic idea.
to qualify, i'm not saying this because of the landscape being flooded with opinions i don't like, i still wish the sides i voted for got their s**t out of my way.

I know I'm idealistic but I see things differently. Voting is a right, not an obligation, and inherent in that right is the duty to be well-informed. Democracy does not work unless the electorate is informed and it is on the individual to inform themselves by seeking out all sides of the argument, critically analysing and forming their own opinion.

Unfortunately I know most people only vote according to their base self interest and because most are indifferent to First Nations causes (it won't effect me so why should I care?) it's easier to be ignorant and err on the side of the status quo. There is a critical lack of empathy in society today, not sure if it's getting better or worse to be honest.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I haven't looked at Leichardt. I'm speaking about Lingiari. The people Jacinta Price claimed she represents.

Marion Scrymgour represents Lingiari.

 

[Chief]

What an imbecile PM knowing this was a Hail Mary months out, 400m on this instead of addressing the cost of living crisis

It's an LNP plan that he went to the polls promising to complete.

He completed it. Dutton and his crew rejected their own party's plan.

We can see who the imbecile is here.

 

[Present Not Past]

The conservative forces in the country used two main strategies to defeat the referendum.

1. Lies.
Example being sending texts to people telling them to vote No and avoid being fined.

2. Deceit.
Misrepresent everything about what the Referendum was about and then urge people to vote No if they don’t understand the meaning behind it.

 

[Chief]

Those communities in Kennedy where majority are indigenous i.e. Doomadgee need local voices, not a federal one that's out of touch with what happens in those communities.

If local areas voting in representatives to a body that presents it's opinion on law making to parliament is not a local voice I don't know what you think might be.

This is what we've seen:

No campaign: Don't know, vote no. This is a Canberra voice, not local.
Yes voters: What's your plan for a local voice?
No campaign: ...

Just stupidity.

 

[Chief]

Example being sending texts to people telling them to vote No and avoid being fined.

Did this happen?

 

[peetoo]

I mean we are all just speculating

I would say in general rural people are far more skeptical of government’s ability to make their lives better, and doubly so when it comes to ‘government advisory bodies’

But the relationship between indigenous and non-indigenous people in rural areas is also wildly different to what you see in major cities

Then you have educational differences, economic differences, a million other things

Rural and metro Australia are extremely different places, neither really understands the other very well

Also some of the poorest places in australia vote something like 80% national. I can for the life of me see what the nats do for them if they are still poor.

Similar places like broadmeadows and labor

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Did this happen?

 

[peetoo]

What an imbecile PM knowing this was a Hail Mary months out, 400m on this instead of addressing the cost of living crisis. Arrogant to just arrive in office and then try and change constitution knowing Australians weren't united on this as a solution. Now the left are pulling their favourite words from their text book - misinformation, racist, uneducated. Epic fail of a campaign, failed to properly tell us how the voice is formed. If it involved activists then thank god the no vote got up. Welcome to country being slammed down out throats did the no vote a big favour too.

400 mill? Could have opened Christmas Island for a day for a photo op

 

[QuietB]

It's an LNP plan that he went to the polls promising to complete.

He completed it. Dutton and his crew rejected their own party's plan.

We can see who the imbecile is here.

But “cost of living”

 

[Caesar]

Also some of the poorest places in australia vote something like 80% national. I can for the life of me see what the nats do for them if they are still poor.

Similar places like broadmeadows and labor

a lot of rural Australians vote Nationals simply to keep the ALP out

my MIL still hasn’t forgiven Hawke for the wool price floor fiasco

 

[Footy Is The Win]

This is what we've seen:

I'd look again.

 

[QuietB]

What an imbecile PM knowing this was a Hail Mary months out, 400m on this instead of addressing the cost of living crisis.

To summarise, the only thing I care about is me me me.

 

[madrigal]

How do you quote a approximate 70% yes vote from Aboriginal voters in remote NT and Katters seat and then conclude that the Aboriginal yes vote was 80% across the nation?

It was referring to a combined vote, so if combined total is 70% and the surrounding sentiment is only 18.5%, it is reasonable to conclude that the Indigenous vote was a lot higher than 70% for it to average out at 70%.

 

[Millky95]

I would say in general rural people are far more skeptical of government’s ability to make their lives better, and doubly so when it comes to ‘government advisory bodies’

The thing that makes me so sad about this whole thing: as a nation we seem fine with big business, pharmasy and god knows what other advisory bodies that don't care about people, but hate the idea of having one for a group of the worst off Australians protected in case one political party decides to get rid of it

 

[Stumpy Pete]

I voted yes but can understand why the no vote got up. At no point did I hear a compelling argument as to why an advisory body needed to be part of the constitution. Recognition yes, advisory body no. The “two birds with one stone” approach was always risky.

Mark Dreyfus inadvertently made this point when he likened the Voice to the Parliamentary Budget Office. The PBO is an independent parliamentary department and the abolition of it would require such a decision to pass through both Houses of Parliament in the same sitting - something that is highly unlikely in a parliament of growing ideological diversity.

Regards

S. Pete