Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Jimi]

You know what Dutton is calling for now?

• Audit money spent on indigenous programs.
• Inquiry into indigenous child abuse.

Why is it that NOW he's all about treating indigenous people differently?

Shouldn't he be calling for these things for ALL Australians?

Anybody?

Chief you will never get them to admit that their position is illogical, because they patently don’t understand that it is.

 

[Tyrohad]

How will the voice KILL BIG PRIMARY INDUSTRY?

Give us details, not this wishy washy stuff.

Details please.

How the **** can we give you details when we never got details about what the voice is all about? **** me dead. I said these industries are built on CERTAINTY. There was nothing CERTAIN about the details of the voice

 

[Roby]

Lingiari also voted no to the voice. This electorate has approximately 40% of indigenous people in it which flies directly in the face of the comment you made.

You mean 26%

 

[Chief]

How the * can we give you details when we never got details about what the voice is all about? * me dead. I said these industries are built on CERTAINTY. There was nothing CERTAIN about the details of the voice

So you don't have anything.

If these industries were so fragile then they would crumble at every change in government, wouldn't they?

 

[MPMonkeys]

You know what Dutton is calling for now?

• Audit money spent on indigenous programs.
• Inquiry into indigenous child abuse.

Why is it that NOW he's all about treating indigenous people differently?

Shouldn't he be calling for these things for ALL Australians?

Anybody?

Firstly, most taxpayer funded programs are audited and if they are not, they should be.

Secondly there is a difference between an inquiry which by definition has a start and end date and a Voice which would be permanently etched into the constitution.

 

[FIGJAM]

I think the Voice could have got up if people were convinced that it would improve things. But even advocates seemed uncertain of this, and the messaging seemed to be more along the lines of “well it’s worth a shot”.

I think this over time pushed people from “soft yes” to “soft no”, to where we finally ended up. People simply weren’t sold on it.

Spot on there!

I know we can't get all the details and "details" is one of the No campaign's harder scare campaign lines, but over 14 or so months of going into this thing, how couldn't we formulate some sort of idea as to how it is actually going to work? And within such a long time period, why aren't we doing it already, instead of trotting out the old "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" line?

We also had the meltdown of Alice Springs in the middle of this campaign. Could have been a good time for a proto-Voice panel to step up and show what the can do for immediate effect and on a longer term basis, but instead the Feds went in with the status quo and looked largely useless. It's hard to muster enthusiasm for a Canberra-based advisory board after that effort.

Anyway, I voted Yes, so I'm "on the right side of history" according to Albo, despite now being 0-2 in referendums!

 

[Osho]

Celebrating? Not at all. Happy that we live in a time all the major endorsements of companies, sports leagues, celebs and politicians mean jack s**t anymore... good.

This was an absolute s**t show due to Albo's arrogance. A referendum needs to be united not a party war. He absolutely botched this.

Bingo.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

You know what Dutton is calling for now?

• Audit money spent on indigenous programs.
• Inquiry into indigenous child abuse.

Why is it that NOW he's all about treating indigenous people differently?

Shouldn't he be calling for these things for ALL Australians?

Anybody?

It's all part of his election plan.

 

[MarcMaverick]

You know what Dutton is calling for now?

• Audit money spent on indigenous programs.
• Inquiry into indigenous child abuse.

Why is it that NOW he's all about treating indigenous people differently?

Shouldn't he be calling for these things for ALL Australians?

Anybody?

Why do you care what that spore-infested spud has to say? Don't you hate him so much that you have his toxic head on a dart board?

Blame Albo for his hubris and inability to adapt.

 

[Crankyhawk]

So I imagine you'll be campaigning to remove race from the constitution and existing laws now?


Being color blind is a fantastic way to avoid the issue of racial discrimination or disadvantage
It's not how you don't be racist either but it's great for erasing stuff you don't want to deal with

as a separate question, I wonder why there was no consideration of a strike out of the race provisions in the constitution? Or would there be significant unintended effects.

 

[Chief]

Why do you care what that spore-infested spud has to say? Don't you hate him so much that you have his toxic head on a dart board?

Blame Albo for his hubris and inability to adapt.

He's the Opposition leader.

He's now contradicting the position he held yesterday.

Why is it not of interest to you?

 

[Crankyhawk]

This isn't a win for the No vote. It's a loss for everyone. Albanese wasted another half a billion and months of our time and energy during a cost of living crisis on this fantasy goose chase designed to make inner city lefties feel warm and fuzzy about themselves.

That time was spent ignoring the issues facing indigenous people. The Labor government should govern. The issue is - the Labor government is full of individuals who were never talented enough go succeed outside of the Labor mafia system of university clubs, unions and other caucasuses where ability and talent don't succeed but who you backstab and grovel to. Not one single person on the Labor side has the intelligence over and above a switched on first year uni student. They are ill equipped to govern and respond to issues. It is quite literally outside their capabilities

it also is outside the capabilities of the LNP government that was in charge for 9 years, who pissed away a mountain of cash, ****ed up the economic settings to leave a cost of living crisis...

So while labor are shit, the coalition can only dream of achieving that level of incompetence

 

[Chief]

I personally don't know anyone that voted yes.

Sounds like you live in an echo chamber.

The progressive 'no' was all about getting back on track to truth-telling and treaty before constitutional change.

Where are you on those things?

 

[MPMonkeys]

He's the Opposition leader.

He's now contradicting the position he held yesterday.

Why is it not of interest to you?

There is no contradiction at all. One is temporary and the other is permanent.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I honestly wonder what it takes to get put in for a prison stay, the bloke that was down the road from me has a list of offences the length of the Nullarbor yet somehow manages to avoid it.

Just charged and into court every couple of months, rinse and repeat.

possibly uses a mental health card to reduce responsibility

This isn't saying that all people with mental health issues commit offences, but an observation that some of those who commit offences play their mental health as a reason for diminished responsibility (and ignore wider concerns for community safety)

 

[Chief]

Oh well, at least Gina is happy

The White Wall is up. Now to turn it into LNP votes.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Really? Which seats are they likely to pick up? The low socio-demographic seats aren’t likely to switch to the Coalition. They might have voted No but they do know the Coalition don’t look after their interests.

The Teal seats aren’t likely to switch either and now Bradfield is in the firing line for the Teals.

The Coalition can’t get any stronger in Qld, Vic hates Dutton and not sure NSW likes him either.

they (low socio demographic seats) might if they fall for Coalition lies and promises of money and jobs, abbetted by a complicit media

 

[Chief]

There is no contradiction at all. One is temporary and the other is permanent.

But there was nothing about "permanent" in his speeches. It was about "dividing the nation on racial grounds" and the like.

He is now calling on the government to divide the nation along racial lines.

He did it in almost the same breath in his victory speech.

 

[kirky]

they (low socio demographic seats) might if they fall for Coalition lies and promises of money and jobs, abbetted by a complicit media

Do you honestly think they could trust Mr Potato Head?

 

[Cmarsh]

You know what Dutton is calling for now?

• Audit money spent on indigenous programs.
• Royal Commission into child abuse in indigenous communities.

Why is it that NOW he's all about treating indigenous people differently? Dividing the country by race?

Shouldn't he be calling for these things for ALL Australians?

Anybody?

I would like to see a general royal commission into CSA throughout the entire community. Its way too prevalent and it is strongly linked to mental health problems throughout the lifespan for victims.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Do you honestly think they could trust Mr Potato Head?

they may choose the spud based on a sense of" both majors aren't listening/ the local MP (generally a labor MP) isn't helping me, **** em and let them experience unemployment" as a reason for vote change

 

[kirky]

Firstly, most taxpayer funded programs are audited and if they are not, they should be.

Secondly there is a difference between an inquiry which by definition has a start and end date and a Voice which would be permanently etched into the constitution.

The Coalition was in power for 20 of the past 27 years and did sfa for the Indigenous. Says it all really.

 

[kirky]

they may choose the spud based on a sense of" both majors aren't listening/ the local MP (generally a labor MP) isn't helping me, * em and let them experience unemployment" as a reason for vote change

I seriously doubt it.

Those ALP seats will never trust the Coalition and Teal seats are probably lost as well.

The ALP gave them free health care and now childcare - just keep reminding them of that.

 

[Chief]

we never got details about what the voice is all about?

By the way: you did. You just hated the very idea of it.

 

[FIGJAM]

Albanese wasted another half a billion and months of our time and energy during a cost of living crisis on this fantasy goose chase designed to make inner city lefties feel warm and fuzzy about themselves.

Inner city, yes.

Lefties? Not really. The heat map of Yes voters contains a huge amount of what were once Liberal safe seats.