Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Jimi]

That who in their own right mind would vote for a blank canvas

That’s literally what the constitution is. A framework around which our laws and parliament have been built.

 

[Roby]

As I feared, not happy with preventing further Reconciliation with this vote these people now want to wind back what already exists

A white supremacist doing white supremacist things.

 

[Tyrohad]

You didn't even look at the proposal.

Why pretend your issue was with the proposal?

Proposals Chief...proposals.

 

[sherb]

That who in their own right mind would vote for a blank canvas

The lack of detail in our constitution regarding our defence forces would literally do your head in then.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I think people are getting a bit ahead of themselves.

No one is going to consider this referendum an election issue in two years.

Elections are fought on jobs, healthcare, taxes, wages, interest rates, housing etc. The usual stuff. Albo knows this, that’s why I think he got the referendum over and done with in the first half of his term.

Between now and next election we’re going to see:

Two budgets
Flatlining and probably slightly dropping interest rates
Inflation moderating
Stage 3 tax cuts
Unemployment not rising too much
Passage of ‘same job same pay’ laws (hopefully)
Expose of some bad Coalition doings in the NACC
Moderating of China relationship and lifting of sanctions and trade deals
The naming of a certain ‘high profile person’ on trial in Toowoomba who may have some links to a certain party

We’re also going to see
Rising house prices
Rising rents
Fuel remaining high
Expansion of the war in the ME
A probably bad bushfire season (ALP actually drew ahead of LNP slightly in early 2020 because of poor bushfire response then Covid but the Coalition back again)
Donnie T on trial in the first half of next year
US Presidential election dominates News second half next year

And that’s the things we know will happen. Many other factors will come into play between now and then that are unseen now.

It could go either way, but I’m fairly sure the referendum won’t be a political issue soon.

My response was not really around whether the referendum would be an issue, more that the lower socio demographic seats may be susceptible to a vote against the ALP - motivated by rage, cost of living pressure, sense of being unheard. The referendum MAY play a small part in the perception of "concentrating on what they see as irrelevant crap vs acute issues such as the cost of living articulated" though any sober analysis is that cost of living is outside of government control (that said don't worsen it by doing the stage 3 cuts)

 

[Chief]

Proposals Chief...proposals.

How do you know there really were multiple proposals?

I could have been mistaken or lying.

You never looked at anything.

 

[Tyrohad]

That’s literally what the constitution is. A framework around which our laws and parliament has been built.

If you want to call "details to be worked on in the future" a framework, then by all means lmao. That's the most pathetic framework I've ever seen

 

[Crankyhawk]

You didn't



This is misinformation and Leichhardt electorate is 16% Indegenous not 80%

could he have been talking about a specific polling booth (we did see some AEC numbers about individual remote voting teams)?

 

[Roby]

what's it like waking up on the wrong side of history this morning Gough ?

He's waking up to right side. You're on the wrong side, sorry to say

 

[Chief]

If you want to call "details to be worked on in the future" a framework, then by all means lmao. That's the most pathetic framework I've ever seen

You didn't even look at it.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I think that’s how most people saw it. Whether or not we should be having a fancy lobby group written into the Constitution is where people differed.

just have to make do with all the existing lobby groups who have money and power then

 

[Better Loosen Up]

So, I'll just give my "anecdotal" experience of how Northhen White Queenslanders view Aboriginals.

Animals.

I'm not surprised those electorate have such a high No vote. This is not a surprise at all.

Also, I don't think a lot Aboriginals or Forrest Strait Islanders would've had the stomach or want to go to a polling booth up in the North.

Forrest Strait Islanders?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Forrest Strait Islanders?

Didn't realise Twiggy forest had paid naming rights

(/jk)

 

[mcnulty]

just have to make do with all the existing lobby groups who have money and power then

There’s no impediment to a private incorporated entity forming a Voice and making representations to parliament.

 

[tandino]

"No detail!"

"Not enough detail!"

"Not the right detail!"

It starts to not be about the detail at all.

LibGuides: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to Parliament Referendum: Voice to Parliament

LibGuides: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to Parliament Referendum: Voice to Parliament

deakin.libguides.com

Voice to Parliament​

The proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to Parliament will be ‘an independent, representative advisory body for First Nations people’ to advise Government and the broader Parliament on issues that matter to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. It will not have a veto function, nor will it be responsible for delivering Government policy.

The final report on the Voice co-design process outlines the proposed model: a network of Local and Regional Voices in two-way communication with a National Voice. Communities would be represented by, and able to join, a Local and Regional Voice, which in turn would nominate members for the National Voice.

The Australian Government has released a politically impartial community toolkit with the core objectives of the Voice to Parliament and how it would be set up. Information is available in multiple languages.

Learn about the Human Rights perspective of the Voice through the Australian Human Rights Commission Voice Referendum Resource kit.

I don't know if you noticed old boy, but the approach you outlined failed last night.

It's all academic now but it's worth wondering if it was worth sacrificing a certain degree of flexibility for certainty by formulating, or even legislating a model first and then putting the principle of a voice to a election referendum

 

[Roby]

Something something Canberra bubble
View attachment 1831514

Your point?

 

[Jimi]

If you want to call "details to be worked on in the future" a framework, then by all means lmao. That's the most pathetic framework I've ever seen

Its apparent from reading this thread that a lot of No voters made up their minds first and then sought out arguments that would agree with them.

Do you realise the constitution doesn’t even mention a position called Prime Minister? Do you understand the difference between enshrining something in the constitution and legislation?

 

[Chief]

There’s no impediment to a private incorporated entity forming a Voice and making representations to parliament.

Just money and access.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Wot?

The fact that you don’t understand what campbell is saying is probably the best Indicator that you should stop taking about it. I asked you nicely to stop raising it but you refuse.

 

[Roby]

So the other half of the problem is right wingers?

The left wouldn't have a problem if we didn't have a right wing

 

[mcnulty]

Just money and access.

Well maybe you could pass the hat around in here Chief

 

[Chief]

Well maybe you could pass the hat around in here Chief

You can find plenty of activist groups to give money to. Attend rallies. Meet people in their networks. Work to share information. Pressure government.

It's all there.

 

[Chief]

More discussion on the next steps:

Steps towards Treaty: the Uluru Statement and Referendum Council Report

Alright. We've had the Referendum into the Indigenous Voice to Parliament, and the public rejected it. From the notes to the Referendum Committee: The Dialogues discussed who would be the parties to Treaty, as well as the process, content and enforcement questions that pursuing Treaty...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Festerz]

A white supremacist doing white supremacist things.

 

[VicPark Bitter]

He's waking up to right side. You're on the wrong side, sorry to say

um, no, Gough arrogantly proclaimed that no voters would be on the wrong side of history.
as of last night, history shows that the referendum was soundly defeated.