Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Saint]

€14.90 a beer at Oktoberfest, thats $25!!

They're a litre of beer, best beer in the world, brought to your table in an amazing atmosphere. Oktoberfest in Munich is the happiest place on earth. Highly recommend.

If all political debates were held in those tents, the world would be a better place. Such a positive vibe.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So you fellas can't handle criticism of the yes campaign. That's weak.

You are criticising the YES campaign for criticising the NO campaign.

I’m surprised you can’t see how hypocritical that is.

 

[CM86]

So you fellas can't handle criticism of the yes campaign. That's weak.

No, people are just asking you to substantiate your criticisms beyond vague implications.

I'm not sure why you won't.

 

[freddy mercury]

Nice sarcasm.

Nah, I legitimately don't mind him.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Damn.

 

[Gavin Excell]

€14.90 a beer at Oktoberfest, thats $25!!

But how much in one of those steins? A litre?

 

[Gavin Excell]

They're a litre of beer, best beer in the world, brought to your table in an amazing atmosphere. Oktoberfest in Munich is the happiest place on earth. Highly recommend.

If all political debates were held in those tents, the world would be a better place. Such a positive vibe.

Do people get tanked and cause fights?

 

[Taylor]

Anybody left with the suspicion that it might not be her own words Price is speaking at the Press Club? It's suspiciously well worded.

WOW.

 

[Blue Arrow]

Nice job from Jacinta Nampijinpa Price today at The Press Club.
Twitter didn't like it, lots of Left racists suggesting she was too dumb to write it herself
Elon can rename it but it's still the same garbage people on it.

 

[Saint]

I'm not sure I understand Price's contention at all.

Nobody in Canberra is willing to speak or hear the truth about indigenous affairs.

Surely the answer to that would be to give a greater voice to indigenous people?

Her point about indigenous MPs being able to represent indigenous people as well as their constituents is not supported by decades of inaction and not Closing the Gap in any sustained way.

She calls ATSIC a failure, when it worked very well when it was set up.

It's "only an elite few who are asking" is clearly misleading (the same could be said about the No campaigners, that they're an "elite few")

Then she says it didn't come from Indigenous People, which is also a lie. Her contention is that if all indigenous people don't agree that it's clearly not representative of indigenous people. If that's how she feels, she should resign from the Senate, because she doesn't represent every single Territorian.

If that's the best the No campaign has got, they've got nothing.

 

[CM86]

We've already thrown billions over decades to 'employ' those who have nfi about how to improve the lives of indigenous people that need it.

Haven't heard much complaining from the electorate over those decades.

Likely those $ will be used to employ people that actually know what's happening and what advice to give to fix the issues in the communities that need it.

In principle the $ will (should) be directed to be used better, not extra $ on top. which seems to be your beef?

Just on this point.

Undoubtedly there will have been waste over the years. And ineffective to negative outcomes from some of the funding.
As there is in any Government program, or business/council/group etc.

But we need to be careful not to lump it all together.
Just because this funding and the existing programs across Australia haven't Closed the Gap, doesn't mean that they haven't had a net-positive impact.
While many of the outcomes and situations are still very bad, they may well be much worse, if not for the existing programs.

Also, The Indigenous Voice to Parliament isn't replacing existing programs, It will in part be working with them.
There will be some areas that are no longer required, or can be reduced etc. But it's all about getting information about upcoming legislation and policy to the communities, groups and areas, and getting feedback to the Government.
Stopping the system of policy AT the Indigenous, and starting a system of policies WITH the Indigenous.

 

[CM86]

Nice job from Jacinta Nampijinpa Price today at The Press Club.
Twitter didn't like it, lots of Left racists suggesting she was too dumb to write it herself
Elon can rename it but it's still the same garbage people on it.

I haven't had the chance to see it.

Could you give a couple of the better points that you got from it, please?

 

[CM86]

I'm not sure I understand Price's contention at all.

Nobody in Canberra is willing to speak or hear the truth about indigenous affairs.

Surely the answer to that would be to give a greater voice to indigenous people?

Her point about indigenous MPs being able to represent indigenous people as well as their constituents is not supported by decades of inaction and not Closing the Gap in any sustained way.

She calls ATSIC a failure, when it worked very well when it was set up.

It's "only an elite few who are asking" is clearly misleading (the same could be said about the No campaigners, that they're an "elite few")

Then she says it didn't come from Indigenous People, which is also a lie. Her contention is that if all indigenous people don't agree that it's clearly not representative of indigenous people. If that's how she feels, she should resign from the Senate, because she doesn't represent every single Territorian.

If that's the best the No campaign has got, they've got nothing.

I keep seeing people refer to ATSIC.

But like you say, it was actually very effective.

The only problem, was issues related to Geoff Clark.

No one seems to know why they are against ATSIC... they just 'know' it was shut down for corruption.
But aside from Geoff Clark related activity... what corruption was there?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I keep seeing people refer to ATSIC.

But like you say, it was actually very effective.

The only problem, was issues related to Geoff Clark.

No one seems to know why they are against ATSIC... they just 'know' it was shut down for corruption.
But aside from Geoff Clark related activity... what corruption was there?

Employ an accountant and audit the place once a year and move on. Why are some government organisations so against normal business practices.

There has been corruption within the police force. Doesn't really make sense to therefore have no police force.
Just get rid of the corruption.

 

[tandino]

I haven't had the chance to see it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Since it's a topic of conversation.

 

[Saint]

I keep seeing people refer to ATSIC.

But like you say, it was actually very effective.

The only problem, was issues related to Geoff Clark.

No one seems to know why they are against ATSIC... they just 'know' it was shut down for corruption.
But aside from Geoff Clark related activity... what corruption was there?

Geoff Clark's problems were outside ATSIC. There was another guy who committed a level of corruption just above the bottle of wine and just less than some Rolex's and having the taxpayer foot the internet bill for a church-streaming business.

 

[CM86]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Since it's a topic of conversation.

Thank you.

I have access to it, I just am not able to view it currently.

 

[CM86]

Geoff Clark's problems were outside ATSIC. There was another guy who committed a level of corruption just above the bottle of wine and just less than some Rolex's and having the taxpayer foot the internet bill for a church-streaming business.

Some aspect of ATSIC helped cover up Geoff Clark's horrendous stuff.
But apart from that, there was no mention or evidence of ATSIC being a problem.

In fact it was praised by many communities, and there was significant frustration and outrage from them when it was shut down.

 

[Saint]

Employ an accountant and audit the place once a year and move on. Why are some government organisations so against normal business practices.

There has been corruption within the police force. Doesn't really make sense to therefore have no police force.
Just get rid of the corruption.

Howard kept appointing auditors and they didn't find corruption until about a year left when they were under full-frontal assault from the Government and the media. (and one guy committed corruption when they were selling off the assets of the slowly-disbanding organisatino, which is put to shame at the level of corruption of most Governments)

 

[CM86]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Since it's a topic of conversation.

Did you watch it, is there anything you supported or agreed with?

 

[tandino]

Did you watch it, is there anything you supported or agreed with?

I haven't watched it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Nice job from Jacinta Nampijinpa Price today at The Press Club.
Twitter didn't like it, lots of Left racists suggesting she was too dumb to write it herself
Elon can rename it but it's still the same garbage people on it.

So she wants ears in Canberra, but no voice to speak to them. Can you make sense of this?

 

[Taylor]

Nobody in Canberra is willing to speak or hear the truth about indigenous affairs.

There is literally a ministerial position for this.

Is the machine of government so useless such that it can have very highly paid roles and offices/departments operating and not be able to resolve issues, but if only they had more government positions they could get it fixed up then?

You are correct that there is little appetite for action in Canberra, but there is plenty of hunger there to use people to further feather their own nests and cement their own legacy.

 

[Taylor]

So she wants ears in Canberra, but no voice to speak to them. Can you make sense of this?

The elected representatives and the person sitting in the chair as minister for indigenous affairs have had the means to hear the opinions of indigenous people the entire time.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The elected representatives and the person sitting in the chair as minister for indigenous affairs have had the means to hear the opinions of indigenous people the entire time.

Why do you think a set of ears in Canberra (ie Jacinta) doesn't want a voice to listen to?