Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Home Alone]

I don't believe it's likely to be detrimental towards other racial groups, and I think the voice is a good initiative even if it's been marketed poorly. Purely from a textbook definition, I'm of the view that voting yes is racist.

And I have the practical definition that removing inequality is not racism.

 

[Home Alone]

Without being an Anthropologist, i believe that at least some of the Torres straight Islanders come from a completely different gene pool. ( am i right)?
So it would be two races..... or any inhabitants at the time of colonisation.

Or is someone suggesting that everyone with dark skin is the same race?

Does it matter?

 

[evolved2]

And I have the practical definition that removing inequality is not racism.

Given racism has formed a large part of discussion on this thread, how do you personally define 'racism'?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I must admit, when I posted, didn't have you in mind.


No I am not talking about them.


Strange conclusion to come to. Why would it include me or others that expressed the same view.

It seems to me that those that can't see it maybe because it is the norm for them, or don't view some of the discussions on social media, mainstream reports, some politicians etc as racists.

Sadly it exists and what is happening in the USA is normalising it.

By claiming we're a racist country that implies that you, me and everyone else in it is racist.

That is simply not true.

No one's claiming that racism doesn't exist but to broadbrush that the whole country is racist is incorrect and offensive.

 

[Carringbush2010]

No it doesn't.

This is half the battle when it comes to tackling racist structures, people take more offence at the phrase racist than the actual racist structure that people are attempting to dismantle.

How does it not?

There is a distinct difference between

Australia is a racist country - implies that every Australian is racist.

Some Australians are racist - < nothing truer than this statement.

Also do you have evidence that people are more offended by being called a racist than racism itself? I doubt, and it's a cop out anyway, it's a disgusting concept to frame it as 'who's worse, racists or people calling people racists?'

 

[Ghost Patrol]

By claiming we're a racist country that implies that you, me and everyone else in it is racist.

That is simply not true.

No one's claiming that racism doesn't exist but to broadbrush that the whole country is racist is incorrect and offensive.

If a country is founded on a false claim of Terra Nullius, wouldn't that make it a racist country?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Would be interesting to hear Sttew Carringbush2010 MrKK TheEscapeClub SaintsSeptember Skeppersap response to this video.

Is there anything you don't agree with here?

Well I'm voting yes, so I don't know why you've quoted me in your childish post.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If a country is founded on a false claim of Terra Nullius, wouldn't that make it a racist country?

It makes some people in the country racist, not the whole country.

 

[Carringbush2010]

By claiming we're a racist country that implies that you, me and everyone else in it is racist.

That is simply not true.

No one's claiming that racism doesn't exist but to broadbrush that the whole country is racist is incorrect and offensive.

I'm going to assume by your disagreement Maggie5 that you believe everyone in this country is racist.

That will end our discussion.

 

[evolved2]

If a country is founded on a false claim of Terra Nullius, wouldn't that make it a racist country?

Which countries aren't racist?

 

[Home Alone]

Given racism has formed a large part of discussion on this thread, how do you personally define 'racism'?

With a lot more emphasis on the discrimination and disadvantage component of racism than equal rights for all

 

[DIG]

It’ll be a NO vote from me on this.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It’ll be a NO vote from me on this.

Can I ask why you're voting no?

 

[Festerz]

Without being an Anthropologist, i believe that at least some of the Torres straight Islanders come from a completely different gene pool. ( am i right)?
So it would be two races..... or any inhabitants at the time of colonisation.

Or is someone suggesting that everyone with dark skin is the same race?

Have tried multiple times to construct a response to your post using my own words and links. But it became an unintelligible thesis. So I'll just break my own rules and cut and paste this simple answer from wikipedia :

Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partly based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.

Race (human categorization) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Does it matter?

People have said that voting "yes" would be giving support to one race ahead of others and is therefore racist.
The fact that it is more than one race, suggests that it is "anyone who was an inhabitant prior to colonisation" who is affected by the proposed Voice. Therefore, not racist.

( Interestingly the British pretty much gave Pitcairn Island to the inhabitants after a mere 50 years or so ).

 

[evolved2]

With a lot more emphasis on the discrimination and disadvantage component of racism than equal rights for all

You seem to preference equity over equality. I agree with that when it comes to First Nations people groups.

 

[Gralin]

I'm going to assume by your disagreement Maggie5 that you believe everyone in this country is racist.

That will end our discussion.

Sometimes you post stuff that makes me think you're intelligent, just misguided.

This is not one of those times

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Which countries aren't racist?

Not sure, I'll defer to the resident expert Carringbush2010 for comment.

 

[Gralin]

You seem to preference equity over equality. I agree with that when it comes to First Nations people groups.

View attachment 1801134

Justice would be removing the fence

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not sure, I'll defer to the resident expert Carringbush2010 for comment.

If every country is racist that implies that everyone in every country is racist.

 

[Gralin]

If every country is racist that implies that everyone in every country is racist.

No it doesn't

 

[evolved2]

Not sure

You were confident in labeling Australia a racist country. Which countries were you comparing us to?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If every country is racist that implies that everyone in every country is racist.

So if a country isn't racist, does that mean there are no racists there at all?

 

[Maggie5]

I'm going to assume by your disagreement Maggie5 that you believe everyone in this country is racist.

That will end our discussion.

I have made my point, you can interpret anyway you wish. Really don't care!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If a country is founded on a false claim of Terra Nullius, wouldn't that make it a racist country?

It wasn't really. Terra Nullius wasn't really a concept at the time Australia was Colonised.
Back then if you could move in, you did.
Look at what they did in Africa ( Clearly not Terra Nullius ).