Richmond drafting - explains a lot

[mikeythemoocow]

only read first post, but their draft and trading looks heaps better than Carltons

 

[Al Kemy]

More like limited record of snaring really good kids.
Bottom of ladder in 2004 you had 5 picks in top 20.
Only Deledio was a good pick looking back on it.

Due to blowing that access to best kids you ended up being given a second chance at it in 2007. Picking Cotchin and Rance was an improvement on 2004 attempt.

From 2002 to 2009 you actually had 15 attempts at picking best kids in top 25 picks of drafts in that period. That is not a limited access to best kids. You got a strike rate of 1 in 3 being good picks. You had Deledio, Jack Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance and Dustin Martin from those 15 attempts.


Here is a decent look since 2002 of what you did with your picks from top 25 picks of all those drafts. I think it is fair to judge to end of 2010 now Conca is gone and had enough time to judge his worth.

12 Jay Schulz Richmond Woodville-West Torrens 2002

18 & 32 of 2002 traded away with Jason Torney to Adelaide for pick 12, Kane Johnson, pick 28 & 41

6 & 20 of 2003 traded away to Western Bulldogs for Nathan Brown

21 Alex Gilmour Richmond Tasmania U18 2003

The draft picks bonanza from rock bottom (wooden spoon in 2004)

1 Brett Deledio Richmond Murray U18 2004

4 Richard Tambling Richmond Southern Districts 2004

12 Danny Meyer Richmond Glenelg 2004

16 Adam Pattison Richmond Northern U18 2004

20 Dean Polo Richmond Gippsland U18 2004

8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls Richmond East Perth 2005

24 Cleve Hughes Richmond Norwood 2005

8 of 2006 traded away to Fremantle as part of deal that secured Graham Polack and pick 13

13 Jack Riewoldt Richmond Tasmania U18 2006



Re-load after another wooden spoon to make Elimination Finals in more recent times.

2 Trent Cotchin Richmond Northern U18 2007

18 Alex Rance Richmond Swan Districts 2007

19 of 2007 traded away to Bulldogs for Jordan McMahon

8 Ty Vickery Richmond Sandringham U18 2008

3 Dustin Martin Richmond Bendigo U18 2009

19 Ben Griffiths Richmond Eastern U18 2009

6 Reece Conca Richmond Perth 2010

geez you put in some work dont you ! Unfortunately just data isnt fact ,its still just your opinion. The same has been done with your clubs trading. You can do it with any club, go back enough years and highlight some things and leave others out.
I wont waste my time on this too much because the mod on this page made this thread as a payback. When an oppo supporter puts up a thread about another clubs " failures" we all know why.. I do enjoy the melts and give you kudos for your research.....Now get outside and get some exercise lol

 

[Al Kemy]

What picks we only have 27 and 56 and will promote short. Hows that for looking after the long term if i was not a tiger supporter id be laughing with the rest of you.

you are not a tiger supporter. Your a whiney lil bitch!!! of course you agree with oppo trollos

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Premiership player and All Australian, but Ben Reid is definately is not at the level of Jack Riewoldt.



The discussion was about whether a particular trade (Pick #8 (Ben Reid) & Pick #42 (Bachar Houli) from Richmond for Graham Polak, Pick #13 (Jack Riewoldt) & Pick #73 (Andrew Collins)) was a win or a loss.

You can't say Richmond lost out in that trade due to Houli's time at Richmond, as he played that part of his career for Richmond and they recruited him for only a pre-season draft pick in the 2010 pre-season draft.

I never said Richmond lost out in the trade. I don't think that is the case - it was a pretty good trade for Richmond.

However, the fact that Houlli didn't reach his potential at Essendon is irrelevant to whether he was a good pick up in the 40s. Clearly he was a very good pick at that point. It is irrelevant that Richmond got him back for cheap later as well, as that is a completely different deal.

As to the first part of your post, I agree that Reid hasn't had the career of Jack who is one of the better key forwards in the game. He has missed too much footy due to injury. If not for the injuries though it would be close, as in my opinion Reid is a top 2 key position defender in the league when fit. The other bloke plays for your mob!

 

[mopsy]

you are not a tiger supporter. Your a whiney lil bitch!!! of course you agree with oppo trollos

Na i am big on the truth unlike head in the sand supporters like yourself.
Unlike you i dont see the need to dick measure or paint pretty pictures about where we are at. the club has certainly done nothing the last 30 yrs that warrants defending.

Oh and bud keep name calling and you will find yourself reported.
I refuse to get down on that kiddie level with you but that doesnt mean i will put up with your childish tantrums.

 

[footyfan1978]

Unfortunately just data isnt fact

Unfortunately talking out of your ass saying you had limited access to kids and that is excuse you claim for not be able to be a regular finals contender in decades, indeed is not a fact. It was actually hogwash as I highlighted. You had plenty of chances, just blew too many value picks you had in top 25 of drafts. Only getting Deledio as a quality player from 5 selections in top 20 that crucial 2004 draft that could have set your club up for recent decade. That is a bonanza of picks. Not limited access to talented kids. Your club had a great chance in 2004 to build a list that could set you up for a decade but instead it just became more of the same.
If your club had made the most of the 15 draft pick selections you had between 2002 and 2009 that were in top 25 you would be winning finals in recent years.
5 of those 15 picks working for you is just a tale of failing to nail those picks when you had the chances.

The good news is that is the past.
In future your club could improve it's picking.
You improve that strike rate of nailing picks by 20% and it can make all the difference.
Imagine how different the last decade would have been if Richmond had just Franklin and Birchall rather than Hawthorn drafting them. Margin for error is not much in setting your future up or being back to drawing board a few years later like Richmond found themselves in 2007, only 3 years after the bonanza of draft picks they had in 2004 to draft talented kids.

 

[Bazzar]

Richmond has been an average football team for the best part of 35 years. Is it culture or is it down to poor recruiting? I believe it is a combination of both and have put together their draft/trade history (over the last ten years) to enhance my view. I have rated their players as a win/loss/ok; this is obviously subjective.

Makes for interesting reading and shows why they haven’t won a final in 15 years.


2006
Riewoldt (12) & Edwards (26), Jake King (rookie) - WINS
Connors – OK
Traded in Polak – LOSS
Peterson, Collins, Kingsley, Clingan - LOSS

2007
Cotchin (2) & Rance (18) – WIN
Traded in Jordan McMahon for pick 19 – LOSS
Dean Putt (51), Gourdis, Collard, Silvester, Howat – LOSS

2008
Ty Vickery (8) & Nahas - OK
Traded in Adam Thomson for pick 42 – LOSS
Post, Hislop, Cousins, Browne, Gilligan - LOSS

2009
Martin (3) & Grimes – WIN
Astbury, Griffiths (19) – OK
Dea , Taylor, Webberley, Nason, Hicks, Contin, Roberts, Nicholas Westhoff - LOSS

2010
Houli - WIN
Batchelor – OK
Conca (6), Helbig, Derickx, MacDonald, Jakobi, Miller - LOSS

2011
Brandon Ellis (15) – WIN (does go missing in big games though)
Traded in Ivan Maric for pick 37 - OK (played a couple of good seasons early but hardly played a game in two years)
Traded in Steven Morris – any trade that gets Morris to your club is a LOSS
Elton (26), Arnot, O’Hanlon, Marric, Darrou, Verrier, Turner, Wright – LOSS

2012
Vlaustin (9) - WIN
Troy Chaplin traded in, McIntosh - OK
Chris Knights traded in – LOSS
Aaron Edwards, McBean, McDonaugh, Petterd, Lonergon, Stephensson, Williams – LOSS

2013
Sam Lloyd (66), Miles (rookie) – WIN
Hampson traded in for pick 32 – OK (just)
BenLennon (12), Gordon, Banfield, Thomas – LOSS (*early days re Lennon but has shown near enough for a pick 12)

2014
Menadue (31) , Short (rookie), Lambert (Rookie) - OK
Corey Ellis (pick 12), Taylor Hunt, Drummond, Butler, MacKenzie, Soldo - LOSS (** extremely early days re Lennon but has not shown near enough for a pick 12)

2015
Rioli, Markov & Broad all look like WINS so far
Andrew Moore, Townsend, Yarran (so far) - LOSS

So roughly, over the last 10 years, Richmond has traded in 89 players.

• 15 WINS
  
• 13 OK players
  
• 61 LOSSES

They get 1 in 6 right. No wonder they are in no-man’s land...

Can you do a similar one for all the other teams?

 

[Love the Drake]

Can you do a similar one for all the other teams?

Nah. I only did this one because a Richmond BF fan suggested it after he kept the world how good richmonds recruiting/trading had been compared to carltons (which he was rightly bagging).

Took way too much of my precious time, and to be honest, I didn't do enough research to get it spot on. I must say though, it proved that you've been almost as bad as us, so the Richmond fans can get off their high horses when trying to point out other teams' recruiting failures..

 

[Love the Drake]

Unfortunately talking out of your ass saying you had limited access to kids and that is excuse you claim for not be able to be a regular finals contender in decades, indeed is not a fact. It was actually hogwash as I highlighted. You had plenty of chances, just blew too many value picks you had in top 25 of drafts. Only getting Deledio as a quality player from 5 selections in top 20 that crucial 2004 draft that could have set your club up for recent decade. That is a bonanza of picks. Not limited access to talented kids. Your club had a great chance in 2004 to build a list that could set you up for a decade but instead it just became more of the same.
If your club had made the most of the 15 draft pick selections you had between 2002 and 2009 that were in top 25 you would be winning finals in recent years.
5 of those 15 picks working for you is just a tale of failing to nail those picks when you had the chances.

The good news is that is the past.
In future your club could improve it's picking.
You improve that strike rate of nailing picks by 20% and it can make all the difference.
Imagine how different the last decade would have been if Richmond had just Franklin and Birchall rather than Hawthorn drafting them. Margin for error is not much in setting your future up or being back to drawing board a few years later like Richmond found themselves in 2007, only 3 years after the bonanza of draft picks they had in 2004 to draft talented kids.

..and if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

Stop making excuses. Richmond have had many chances and have got the majority wrong.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Was?

That directive arguably hasn't changed given their moves through the most recent trade period.

They are going into this draft with one pick inside the top 30, and two inside the top 60 - both likely to be pushed out further with academy and father/son selections. I wouldn't be happy with that if I was a Richmond supporter.

Caddy and prestia average players? Come on mate

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Caddy and prestia average players? Come on mate

Prestia is very good.

Caddy is a good / ordinary footballer. Losing him was a poor outcome for the Cats though, due to their lack of midfield depth.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

Prestia is very good.

Caddy is a good / ordinary footballer. Losing him was a poor outcome for the Cats though, due to their lack of midfield depth.

Was Caddy played out of position though? He spent a lot of time up forward at the cats which he seemed to struggle with. At the tigers he would probably spend a lot more time on the ball.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Some people don't watch much footy if they dont think Ben Reid isn't an elite defender.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Prestia is very good.

Caddy is a good / ordinary footballer. Losing him was a poor outcome for the Cats though, due to their lack of midfield depth.

I thought Caddy was terrific earlier this year before he got injured which coincided with Geelong losing games.

He was a good pick up.

 

[Jeremias]

Caddy and prestia average players? Come on mate

Prestia is very good footballer who should have a good long career at Richmond. I did query whether Richmond was in a position to give up pick 6 but only time will tell on that front.

Caddy is absolutely an average footballer, as is Nankervis for that matter.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Prestia is very good footballer who should have a good long career at Richmond. I did query whether Richmond was in a position to give up pick 6 but only time will tell on that front.

Caddy is absolutely an average footballer, as is Nankervis for that matter.

Whats your definition of average? Caddy averaged over a goal a game and 20 possessions, while nankervis was a pick 30 ruck in 2013 and should be a good pick up. In relation to our draft picks the fact we have 2 first rounders next year makes up for it.

 

[Jeremias]

Whats your definition of average?

Not bad but clearly not as good as you seem to think he is.

Caddy averaged over a goal a game and 20 possessions

As did Matthew Wright but I wouldn't expect most to consider him much more than an average footballer.

nankervis was a pick 30 ruck in 2013 and should be a good pick up.

That's great, but I'm not sure how it translates to him being better than an average footballer. Maybe he develops into something more, but that remains to be seen.

In relation to our draft picks the fact we have 2 first rounders next year makes up for it.

It doesn't, and it remains to be seen whether you keep one or both of those picks.

 

[mopsy]

Caddy and prestia average players? Come on mate

Prestia has been very good when up and going.
Caddy well apaert from a few very good games each yr everything about him so far has spelled average.
Performance does not lie and stats back up what im saying.
What really concerns is just how poor he has been in big pressure games. But hey as tiger supporters lets not go there after all he is a tiger now

 

[HumanMeatball]

Not bad but clearly not as good as you seem to think he is.



As did Matthew Wright but I wouldn't expect most to consider him much more than an average footballer.



That's great, but I'm not sure how it translates to him being better than an average footballer. Maybe he develops into something more, but that remains to be seen.



It doesn't, and it remains to be seen whether you keep one or both of those picks.

We will agree to disagree, id take what Richmond did over picking up gws reserves players, but if you feel differently thats cool.

 

[Jeremias]

We will agree to disagree, id take what Richmond did over picking up gws reserves players, but if you feel differently thats cool.

Sorry, I didn't realize the topic of this thread was Carlton's trading. I could have sworn Richmond was the topic of discussion.

I do now realize though that this discussion is well and truly above your head. If you can't separate the opinion from the club supported by the person putting that opinion forward, you've got no hope.

 

[HumanMeatball]

Sorry, I didn't realize the topic of this thread was Carlton's trading. I could have sworn Richmond was the topic of discussion.

I do now realize though that this discussion is well and truly above your head. If you can't separate the opinion from the club supported by the person putting that opinion forward, you've got no hope.

Isn't that exactly what carlton supporters did in this thread? https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...d-troy-menzel-are-traded-away.1116300/page-13
No one seemed to pull them up on talking about Richmond. As i said we will agree to disagree

 

[Jeremias]

Yeah you've got nothing. I'd say it was a good try, but it really wasn't.

Enjoy overrating Caddy and Nankervis, I guess.

 

[Al Kemy]

Prestia is very good.

Caddy is a good / ordinary footballer. Losing him was a poor outcome for the Cats though, due to their lack of midfield depth.[/QUOT

Yeah you've got nothing. I'd say it was a good try, but it really wasn't.

Enjoy overrating Caddy and Nankervis, I guess.

And you wonder why most think you guys are knobs. Here you have an oppo supporter being about as respectful as you can be while dissagreeing. I on the other hand am not as respectfull and think your a ++++head.

 

[Al Kemy]

Yeah you've got nothing. I'd say it was a good try, but it really wasn't.

Enjoy overrating Caddy and Nankervis, I guess.

And you wonder why most bag you guys. Here you have an oppo supporter be as respectful as possible while dissagreeing and you act like a knob. Im not so respectfull and think you are just a w***er

 

[Al Kemy]

Unfortunately talking out of your ass saying you had limited access to kids and that is excuse you claim for not be able to be a regular finals contender in decades, indeed is not a fact. It was actually hogwash as I highlighted. You had plenty of chances, just blew too many value picks you had in top 25 of drafts. Only getting Deledio as a quality player from 5 selections in top 20 that crucial 2004 draft that could have set your club up for recent decade. That is a bonanza of picks. Not limited access to talented kids. Your club had a great chance in 2004 to build a list that could set you up for a decade but instead it just became more of the same.
If your club had made the most of the 15 draft pick selections you had between 2002 and 2009 that were in top 25 you would be winning finals in recent years.
5 of those 15 picks working for you is just a tale of failing to nail those picks when you had the chances.

The good news is that is the past.
In future your club could improve it's picking.
You improve that strike rate of nailing picks by 20% and it can make all the difference.
Imagine how different the last decade would have been if Richmond had just Franklin and Birchall rather than Hawthorn drafting them. Margin for error is not much in setting your future up or being back to drawing board a few years later like Richmond found themselves in 2007, only 3 years after the bonanza of draft picks they had in 2004 to draft talented kids.

You dont get invited to many parties do you