Richmond to take Cousins

[HBK619]

Umm, no we don't, neither do Fremantle.

I meant that they have in the past, or at least West Coast has.

 

[G.O.B]

Pretty sure it was a very late decision to get Michael to the club, he had announced his retirement and only decided really close to the PSD that he wanted to keep going

Purely speculative.

.How do you know it is a list management decision, and what are other said options? Once again omitting the LTI as it has already been stated you can SIMPLY NOT know Polak's mental state and the affect him still being on the senior list will have on him.

The other options are maintaining him on the main list which the club thought was a great idea before the draft or putting him on the LTI, which cant be ommitted just because it's been stated before.
What inside information do you have on Polak's CURRENT mental state that makes you suggest that the only fair option is the 1 that benefits the Tigers the most?
Dont be so naive to think that this decision is based 100% on what's good for Polak. The Tigers are trying to exploit a precedent set in the Rama case and the President of another club seems to be calling them on it.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

He's not trying to stop Richmond taking Cousins, he's trying to stop them gaining an unfair advantage right before the draft in the form of an added pick.

I agree with Ed.

I think eddie has a right to ask questions considering the original stance we had on both issues (polak & cousins) but if its true that Polak's rehab isnt coming along as the club and graham had of hoped (As per the recent medical report) then I think Richmond have a right to seek compassionate grounds. Like it or not but its not upto Collingwood or any other club to decide on the issue, the commission has the power to make whatever decision it sees fit.

 

[HBK619]

The other options are maintaining him on the main list which the club thought was a great idea before the draft or putting him on the LTI, which cant be ommitted just because it's been stated before.

Yes it can be omitted, for the very fact that nobody but the club/doctors/family/friends actually knows the mental state of Graham Polak, therefore not knowing the full impact that leaving him on the Senior list may create and how it may hinder his rehabilitation.

What inside information do you have on Polak's CURRENT mental state that makes you suggest that the only fair option is the 1 that benefits the Tigers the most?

I don't have inside information on Polak's condition, which is why I have not made a comment on him being in the right mind or not.

I couldn't care less if we do or don't get another player(In fact I have been against getting Cousins from the get go), but if it is in Polak's best interests to go onto the Rookie list then so be it.

Dont be so naive to think that this decision is based 100% on what's good for Polak. The Tigers are trying to exploit a precedent set in the Rama case and the President of another club seems to be calling them on it.

The thing is how the hell would you know that it isn't in the best interests of Polak, what has happened to Polak was a shocking thing and the VERY first thing stated was that he should be put onto the Rookie list, the club denied it at first because they thought it would help in his recovery, but now, possibly due to circumstances in his rehabilitation the club has chosen to seek permission.

I hardly think the club(Or any club for that matter) is going to exploit the fact they have a brain damaged player on their list, just to add one more player to the senior list, it is just plain stupid.

There was a precedent set in the Ramanauskas case that if a player has an illness/injury that is bad enough as it is then they can be moved to the rookie list to allow for that player to not have any unnecessary pressure brought about by being on the senior list, simple as that.

 

[G.O.B]

Yes it can be omitted, for the very fact that nobody but the club/doctors/family/friends actually knows the mental state of Graham Polak, therefore not knowing the full impact that leaving him on the Senior list may create and how it may hinder his rehabilitation.I don't have inside information on Polak's condition, which is why I have not made a comment on him being in the right mind or not.

I couldn't care less if we do or don't get another player(In fact I have been against getting Cousins from the get go), but if it is in Polak's best interests to go onto the Rookie list then so be it.The thing is how the hell would you know that it isn't in the best interests of Polak, what has happened to Polak was a shocking thing and the VERY first thing stated was that he should be put onto the Rookie list, the club denied it at first because they thought it would help in his recovery, but now, possibly due to circumstances in his rehabilitation the club has chosen to seek permission.

I hardly think the club(Or any club for that matter) is going to exploit the fact they have a brain damaged player on their list, just to add one more player to the senior list, it is just plain stupid.

There was a precedent set in the Ramanauskas case that if a player has an illness/injury that is bad enough as it is then they can be moved to the rookie list to allow for that player to not have any unnecessary pressure brought about by being on the senior list, simple as that.

Given that in amongst all that dribble you have finally admitted to having absolutely no idea as to the current mental state of Polak you have simply forfeited any right to continue to argue that the option that most benefits Richmond is the only 1 that can be taken to best assist Polak in his rehabilitation.

If and when you start to think logically answer this 1 question.

What difference does being on the Mature Rookie List as opposed to the Long Term Injury list make in the rehabilitation of Graham Polak?

And just to save you time and me grief dont reply with...
"the mental pressure of being on the Main list could be too much to bare" or other like worded nonsense.

 

[yaco55]

The vote to allow Rama to go onto the Mature Age Rookie list was made before the other clubs knew that they planned on replacing him with the newly retired Mal Michael. It would be interesting to see what the vote would've been had the other clubs known this.
This is a list management decision as opposed to a fundemental concern for Polak's wellbeing seeing as there are other, legal options available to the club which would have the same result in regards to Polak's rehabilitation.

All these arguments can be interpreted as rorting the system.

The biggest rort in AFL today is the LTI list but you asking Richmond to place Polak on the LTI list so as not to rort the system.

At least we could safely say that POlak is medically incapacitated and truly meets the criteria of the LTI list.

 

[yaco55]

That's not what you were getting at?

Polak did have a part to play in his injury AS OPPOSED to Rama who clearly did not.
That's what most posters who are going down that path seem to be suggesting, even TFT.
All irrelevant in any case.

But you want Richmond to place Polak on the LTI list.

I suppose Polak will be one of the few cases of genuinely injured players being SUITABLE for the LTI list.

 

[G.O.B]

All these arguments can be interpreted as rorting the system.

The biggest rort in AFL today is the LTI list but you asking Richmond to place Polak on the LTI list so as not to rort the system.

At least we could safely say that POlak is medically incapacitated and truly meets the criteria of the LTI list.

But you want Richmond to place Polak on the LTI list.

I suppose Polak will be one of the few cases of genuinely injured players being SUITABLE for the LTI list.

Polak belongs on the LTI list due to the fact that he has a long term injury.
Noone, least of all me, would sanely suggest that this is any way, shape or form constitutes a rort.
In reality, this argument has little to do with Polak, nothing at all to do with Cousins and everything to do with Richmond.
If anyone were to put up even 1 good reason why and how the best interests of Polak's rehabilitation would be served by being placed on the MRL only then will I look at this issue differently.
The bottom line is that Richmond are basing this decision from a list management perspective rather that a "what's best for Polak" perspective.
That in itself doesn't upset me to any great extent but let's please call a spade a spade here and drop all the emotional crap.

 

[smasha]

OMG.

What a midfield

FOLEY, DELEDIO, COTCHIN, COUSINS, TUCK. Throw browny in there occasionally too.

ROUND 1 WILL BE A SELLOUT!!!!

Game of the week - we will nearly get 100 g at the G.

 

[yaco55]

Polak belongs on the LTI list due to the fact that he has a long term injury.
Noone, least of all me, would sanely suggest that this is any way, shape or form constitutes a rort.
In reality, this argument has little to do with Polak, nothing at all to do with Cousins and everything to do with Richmond.
If anyone were to put up even 1 good reason why and how the best interests of Polak's rehabilitation would be served by being placed on the MRL only then will I look at this issue differently.
The bottom line is that Richmond are basing this decision from a list management perspective rather that a "what's best for Polak" perspective.
That in itself doesn't upset me to any great extent but let's please call a spade a spade here and drop all the emotional crap.

You dont understand my post and my cynicism !

List Management practices at AFL clubs have tried to rort the system to obtain benefits for their club and the LTI list, has been one of the more effective rorts.

Look back to 2001 when EFC upgraded Peverill to replace Misiti who broke his arm. Once the 8 weeks were up, Misiti was reinstated to the list and Peverill demoted to the rookie list, whilst at the same time Wallis couldn't get on the park all year and if EFC was smarter they would have then placed Wallis on the LTI list ensuring that Peverill stayed on the list

Clubs have now learnt to place an underperforming player on THE LTI list, because they want to upgrade a player on to the rookie list.

 

[KissStephanie]

I know that.

But they can just put him on the LTI list and pick up Cousins with the PSD pick. And the youngster they woudl have taken in the PSD can simply be picked up instead, in the rookie draft.

Richmond have one pick full stop. They cannot recruit a rookie. They will have two picks if Polak is moved to a mature age rookie list. They won't be able to follow your suggestion unless that occurs.

 

[Crow-mo]

this is a great move for richmond, and a great move for the league to end this hypocritical collusion against Cousins.

 

[_RT_]

That doesnt mention anything about his condition suddenly deteriorating over the past couple of weeks.

It just states his condition as at now.

Nobody's denying he's not in a good way, what we're arguing about is that it didnt just suddenly get worse after the National Draft.

How do you know? Do you have access to his medical reports?

Most of the young players eligible for the PSD are also eligible for the rookie list, except bottom aged pimply 17 year olds, and of course mature aged players above 22 or so. I'm sure whoever Richmond has their sights on (and they'd have a list of 5 or 6) with their PSD pick 6 would still be available with their first rookie pick.

So all they have to do is take Cousins with their PSD pick, then take the youngster with the rookie pick. The rookie is then free to be promoted as soon as Round 1, as Polak will be on the LTI list.

Please provide a link which states that the club will be taking Cousins.

Geelong have lost Egan for the season.
St Kilda lost Jarryd Allan for the season.
What should we do about their "disadvantage"?

Lets face it. This isn't about Richmond being disadvantaged. Its about Richmond using the unfortunate circumstances of Graham Polak to gain a benefit.

Its actually immoral when you think about it, isn't it?
And to see the Richmond supporters trying to justify it is just as bad.

It would have been immoral, if Richmond had of come out as soon as Polak got injured and said too bad so sad seeya. Instead we have kept a player with little chance of actually getting back to football on the list.

BTW can you tell me what benefit we are getting by replacing an injured player with another player on our senior list?

Ok firstly, I dont see how a football injury is any less important than a non football injury. Injury is injury.

Secondly, all clubs want 40 fit players. Geelong included. But they dont always get what they want, and thats why there are lists of 40 in the first place.

To answer your question, no I did not agree with the Ramanaskus rookie listing. But I can see two major arguments that made Essendon's case a slightly stronger one than Richmonds - (1) Rama's illness was not self inflicted, and (2) Essendon gave a bit more than 3 days notice and did not apply after lists were closed.

But they did apply after Mal Michael agreed to come out of retirement and join their club.

Lets hope the other 15 clubs let the AFL know in no uncertain terms that they do not endorse Richmond trying to operate outside the rules .

If Polak is unable to play football again then delist him ..it's that simple..people get hurt every day of the week and are unable to continue their careers, being a footballer makes no difference whatsoever.

The rules are there and should be ahered too...if there was no cousins in the draft then the tigers wouldn't even bother.

Lets hope that Carlton or any other club never has to approach the AFL in the same situation then. Unfortunately odds are that another club will have to approach the AFL because a player will suffer a serious non football injury in the future.

If there was no Cousins, I wonder if everyone who is against the proposal would still be against the proposal? My guess is not many would.

BTW I find it funny every time a Carlton fan posts about how there are rules and that they should be adhered to.

 

[_RT_]

Richmond have one pick full stop. They cannot recruit a rookie. They will have two picks if Polak is moved to a mature age rookie list. They won't be able to follow your suggestion unless that occurs.

Richmond can pick a rookie just not until the rookie draft, where they have 5 live picks. If Polak gets moved to the rookie list we lose one of our rookie picks.

 

[tigertiger]

they'll still come 9th

and Melbourne will still come last,

 

[St Francis]

If Eddie has come out that quickly to state that he will vote against putting Polak on the longterm injury list, he must be the most gutless, arrogant and selfish peice of shyte on the face of the planet!!! An act like that this far into this saga could only come from a man who epitimizes the word that begins with C and ends with T!!!

Couldn't have put it better myself... Pure Gold!!

Although, Eddie is not harping on specifically about Polly moving to the rookie list, so much as the possible 2nd round pick in the psd to get cuz.

The AFL commission are meeting on Monday to discuss the move and it sounds like they are just going to the clubs for an opinion, not a vote which has been said.

Here's hopin that they alllow the move, i would love to see Cuz in yellow and black next year

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Can't be allowed to happen. Ramanaskus was given permission due to to exeptional circumstances. Polak is in this position because of his own stupidity. Why should he be treated any different than a knee victim.
If Richmond think he is capable of playing as a rookie, then he is capable to stay on the list as an injured player. If the AFL allow this one, it could open up a dangerous precedent.

 

[BlueDW]

Never thought his condition could've gotten worse?

The club isn't going to be asking this just to pick up Cousins, it will be in the best interest of Polak, first and foremost.

If that is the case, promote a rookie!

The Tigers saying that this is all about the health and well being of Polak is utter rubbish. Wouldnt even be news worthy if they had openly come out and said we want to place Polak on the rookie list, and will swap him directly with another rookie.

The AFL wont go for it!

 

[Crow-mo]

Can't be allowed to happen. Ramanaskus was given permission due to to exeptional circumstances. Polak is in this position because of his own stupidity. Why should he be treated any different than a knee victim.
If Richmond think he is capable of playing as a rookie, then he is capable to stay on the list as an injured player. If the AFL allow this one, it could open up a dangerous precedent.

what a uniquely idiotic position. well done

Of course Polak qualifies under the precedent set, and no the timing should not matter.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

Has a poll been set up on this yet?

 

[yeah-nah]

Hilarious. This isnt in the best interests of Polak. He is contracted and the club has previously stated they would keep him on. Makes no odds to him what list he is on.

Its purely in the best interests of richmond. They get to pick up a kid in the psd that others in the order before them in the rookie draft may have had their eye on.

Its so obviously an attempt at a rort cos sheedy has convinced them at the 11th hour to take cousins its not funny. All the moral grandstanding in the world cant hide that.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

what a uniquely idiotic position. well done

Of course Polak qualifies under the precedent set, and no the timing should not matter.

Uniquely idiotic. Why? because you don't agree?

How does Polak compare to Ramanaskus?

 

[Captain_Brown_7]

Uniquely idiotic. Why? because you don't agree?

How does Polak compare to Ramanaskus?

They were both in life threatening positions.

Whilst the reasons for these positions were far from similar, i think the situations in terms of their football careers is very much the same.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The pic of Polak at training last week( back page of HUN) involved in competitive drills isn't going to do the Tigers any favours.

 

[thecotch]

Hope Cousins gets a chance but can't see why Richmond don't just take him with PSD pick 6. Which they might do anyway if they are knocked back with this ploy.

Yes that's an option but the reason is because if cousins is taken with pick 6 and fails then that leaves us with two players on the list who are unavailable for a lengthy period of time. By picking up another kid we're limiting the damage to one player in cousins. Makes a lot of sense. Jim Stynes on SEN this morning said Melbourne would support whatever was necessary in assisting Graham Polak in his recovery. Eddie says no. Go figure. Hey Eddie? Remember Blake Caracella?