AFL Autopsy RND 19: Loss to the Pies

[bacon buster]

Yeah King is wrong. We normally close out close games so professionally. I forgot.

 

[Bjchan13]

He said that Merrett/McGrath and Caldwell were hanging around to celebrate with Jones before the kick, when if you look at the footage they are all standing literally less than 2m away from a Collingwood player (meaning they were actually...you know...just manning up?)

He didn't mention Wright not paying attention, giving Moore a 20m headstart which prompted Ham to leave his man.

He plugged Merrett, Caldwell, Shiel and McGrath for starting and continuing to be in the middle of the ground, which is where just about every other kick in that situation goes historically, ergo in the best position (until of course Wright and Ham ****ed up)

He didn't talk about how Langford made zero body contact or contact with the ball in an attempt to spoil 2v1.

He plugged Heppell for being off the field (and that somehow showing a lack of leadership) for the last 4 minutes of the game after 60 minutes straight on the field, which, in combine with his leg speed would have made him a liability in transition.

Instead, iT'S bEcAuSE LeaDeRsHiP.

Other than that, he got most of it.

Wright and Ham were both mentioned and the set up didnt look great from behind the goals.

 

[bacon buster]

King picked more than 1 though, if we're talking about 1st crack. They mentioned Wright and Ham.

And Langford too from memory. Pies still got it out way too easily in the first place.

And sorry, I think King was right, I do believe they were going to celebrate with Jones. They switched off ball watching for a little bit

 

[boncer34]

Yeah King is wrong. We normally close out close games so professionally. I forgot.

If Ham doesn't leave Bianco or Langford punches the ball does that mean that we set up right?

 

[bacon buster]

If Ham doesn't leave Bianco or Langford punches the ball does that mean that we set up right?

No

 

[Kyptastic]

Here's a take on the final play worth reading:

 

[TheGrizz]

Wright and Ham were both mentioned and the set up didnt look great from behind the goals.

So our midfielders manning up on opposition players in the middle of the ground when they need a score off a kick-in to win isn't a good set up?

 

[Bjchan13]

So our midfielders manning up on opposition players in the middle of the ground when they need a score off a kick-in to win isn't a good set up?

They definitely looked like that manning up was a reaction to the point rather than being switched on defensively anticipating a point. I feel like they could've been set up and positioned gaurding more space while still having a man and communicating to guys like Ham to stick with Bianco.

 

[bacon buster]

Here's a take on the final play worth reading:

That was a good breakdown. I still can’t work out why Langford would be goalkeeper/sweeper in that circumstance. He looked like he had no idea what he was doing. Has he trained for that role? Should someone else have been in that role?

 

[TheGrizz]

Here's a take on the final play worth reading:

Excellent

 

[TheGrizz]

They definitely looked like that manning up was a reaction to the point rather than being switched on defensively anticipating a point. I feel like they could've been set up and positioned gaurding more space while still having a man and communicating to guys like Ham to stick with Bianco.

They were manning up as Jones was walking into kick.

Considering how miserable we have been when trying to guard space, I can cop them going man on man.

If Wright bites down on his mouthguard and gets goal side of Moore, or Ham doesn't make the horrendous decision to pe off his man, then we have 1v1 all over the field essentially and a chance to lock the ball up.

Instead Collingwood have a man overlap created by bad efforts compounded by even worse decision making.

 

[Bjchan13]

Excellent

This analysis says the ground was setup incorrectly from the start?

 

[bacon buster]

They were manning up as Jones was walking into kick.

Considering how miserable we have been when trying to guard space, I can cop them going man on man.

If Wright bites down on his mouthguard and gets goal side of Moore, or Ham doesn't make the horrendous decision to pe off his man, then we have 1v1 all over the field essentially and a chance to lock the ball up.

Instead Collingwood have a man overlap created by bad efforts compounded by even worse decision making.

another reason why we need some quick forward pressure small forwards

 

[TheGrizz]

This analysis says the ground was setup incorrectly from the start?

No, he says that it wasn't ideal, but the players were where you would expect Collingwood to go and that the talls were set up with smalls for the kick down the middle.

The piece is good because it shows the breakdown was because of a series of individual efforts/decisions which cascaded into each other, not some fundamental break down in structure.

 

[Bjchan13]

They were manning up as Jones was walking into kick.

Considering how miserable we have been when trying to guard space, I can cop them going man on man.

If Wright bites down on his mouthguard and gets goal side of Moore, or Ham doesn't make the horrendous decision to pe off his man, then we have 1v1 all over the field essentially and a chance to lock the ball up.

Instead Collingwood have a man overlap created by bad efforts compounded by even worse decision making.

It doesnt look like that to me. They look switched off

 

[Bjchan13]

No, he says that it wasn't ideal, but the players were where you would expect Collingwood to go.

He says they were pushed too high up

 

[boncer34]

Here's a take on the final play worth reading:

Well written Rick18

 

[Bjchan13]

There's more reasons then just that though. Wright not reacting as quick as Moore, Ham's brain fade, Langford not killing the ball.

Hence his analysis is simplistic.

Wright and Ham were mentioned though

 

[TheGrizz]

He says they were pushed too high up

Because they were following their opponents there, why guard space where your opponents aren't?

Do you honestly believe the breakdown yesterday was structure based? That errors by Ham and Wright creating an overlap was because our mids were twiddling their thumbs in the middle of the ground and looking 'switched off'?

 

[Bjchan13]

No, he says that it wasn't ideal, but the players were where you would expect Collingwood to go and that the talls were set up with smalls for the kick down the middle.

The piece is good because it shows the breakdown was because of a series of individual efforts/decisions which cascaded into each other, not some fundamental break down in structure.

I agree but thats what King, Montagna and Dixon brought up on their show. All of the efforts/decisions.

 

[Bjchan13]

Because they were following their opponents there, why guard space where your opponents aren't?

Do you honestly believe the breakdown yesterday was structure based? That errors by Ham and Wright creating an overlap was because our mids were twiddling their thumbs in the middle of the ground and looking 'switched off'?

The errors by Ham and Wright are errors made by individuals in a whole team defence. That team defence didnt look ready to me and our mids in Merrett, McGrath and Shiel are senior players that should've spent the 30 seconds Harry was lining up to make sure it was ready. Can you imagine the amount of pointing and barking orders someone like Goddard would have been doing in that situation?

 

[Phone]

Kings a moron. His analysis is embarrassingly simplistic.

I keep coming back to it being pretty simple, Ham stuffed up and Wright as well although I understand Wright's part in it a lot more, which isn't very satisfying. It's understandable that King needs to find a hot take and some damning vision and all that....coz King sucks, so I get it! but he sucks!

I would say Lloyd does a slightly better job in his effort today, but I think he still misses one interesting thing that I talked about yday, which is a player (possibly BZT) starts drifting away from his opponent so he can go into the space where Elliott is leading, which has the impact of freezing Langford for a second, because he then has to wait and see where the kick is going, to Elliott or to the Pies playing now going into the 50 unattended. I think this proves crucial in Langford's effort not being enough. I think this is an extremely interesting discussion, one that a King could do if he was actually interesting, because I'm not sure anyone has necessarily done anything wrong but of course it ended costing us and it'd be great for smart people to weigh in! (Lloyd also says why isn't it Ridley but Ridley is presumably set-up in the centre square for a possible marking contest which would make sense)

edit Ah, I see an actual smart guy has weighed on that interesting thing



edit

as for coaching errors and all that, obviously Ham being on the field while Heppell and Durham, two players who possibly could have been in that spot, is not ideal, but there was 10 minutes without a goal before the final siren so presumably each team had challenges getting players on and off. anyone with access to data showing the interchanges could weigh (sounds like something David King could do)

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Why is Peter Wright behind the goals watching the ball hit the post?

He should be in position to defend as soon as the ball is kicked.

 

[TheGrizz]

The errors by Ham and Wright are errors made by individuals in a whole team defence. That team defence didnt look ready to me and our mids in Merrett, McGrath and Shiel are senior players that should've spent the 30 seconds Harry was lining up to make sure it was ready. Can you imagine the amount of pointing and barking orders someone like Goddard would have been doing in that situation?

What evidence do you have that they weren't trying to set the team up (or that it wasn't set up) other than you don't like the structure and the 10secs of footage of Jones walking into kick?

How do you know they hadn't done all the organising before then? Why is the finger pointing and barking at people the only measure of whether we are setting up our defence.

 

[horj89]

24 hours on I’m still very much glass half full. Plenty of mistakes that have been well and truly pointed out but still plenty to like from yesterday.

It’s been interesting to see the narrative that all the media outlets have been running with. How different they would be if Elliot misses. Amazing the difference one kick makes.