Autopsy Rnd 5, Hawthorn vs Swans, Aurora Stadium 29th April

[crawf_legend]

Franklin is a forward. I don't know why Clarkson keeps shifting him round. It's doing damage. When he is in the forward, he should attempt to mark more, and less free kick bullshit. He's too good to do that.

Rioli needs to wake up. His speed can do serious damage in the middle, yet he doesn't utilise it.

All the big guns need to toughen up. Mitch, Hodge, Sewell, Burgoyne etc. Wake up FFS. The younger guys seem to try harder.

Drop Ossie.


But.. welcome back Roughie!

 

[Ed_Gein]

bad luck guys, i'd back you lot in to turn it around. think you just ran into the 2 teams both in a rich vein of form over the last 2 rounds. plenty of footy left to be played.

 

[Steeleyourself]

That was a piss poor effort...

Its time to pull the axe out and give many players the chop

The only two players who remotely looked like they wanted to get the footy was Savage and Roughead. The rest were horrible.

I am asking myself now, how the hell did we beat Collingwood in round 1???

Watching the rd1 clash, I think it was us running out of legs and letting you play the last Q on your terms. Watching today I thought Sydney would run out of puff in the 2nd and you guys would run clean and kick a bag. Is it worth Clarko leaving buddy/Cyril forward and rotating a third forward through the middle as a loose man? Stoppages you looked like Sydney always had more numbers, and I always thought Whitecross is a good target forward & as an extra man at stoppages from centre - forward, build the tank and let him attend more stoppages/passages to keep buddy/cyril forward?

 

[Agent Smith]

Having a think about it and it's become obvious to me our gameplan is to blame. After a tough game against West Coast, the players are asked to run up and congest the Swans forward line area when they have the ball and then somehow run down to the forward line when we get the ball. Sounds great in theory (actually, even in theory it's rather suss), and remakably enough, each week we tend to be able to do this to some degree for 100 minutes of footy.

However, legs tired after halftime and we couldn't get back fast enough to take our opportunities. Players often had nobody to kick to in the forward line, simply because their teammates were too stuffed to get there in time. Everyone was exhausted because of the demands of the 'gameplan'. To suggest the guys are weak or don't care is crap. If you're gonna blame anybody, it rests purely on the shoulders of the coach. They're not robots, Clarko. It's called 'player management'. You'd think you'd understand that by now...

 

[Rev08]

With a guy like Buddy, you'd be giving him as many opportunities as you could to score.... and if the opposition load up on him, well, in theory you've got Cyril and Roughy there to clean up.

IMO Buddy looks confused. I almost punched the TV yesterday when he went to centre the ball yesterday from the boundary, changed his mind, and was called to play on. Just shoot the goals. How many times has he done that this year though (or something similar)? He is now second guessing himself because he is trying to do the team thing.

He and Cyril are the most natural footballers I have seen, and IMO, they are being over-coached. I'd much prefer Buddy kicking 2.11, than 0.3 and constantly second guessing himself.

Play him forward. Same with Cyril. Same with Rough. So what if they double and triple team him - if they do, it will leave one on ones for Cyril and Roughie.

 

[Dragz]

Play him forward. Same with Cyril. Same with Rough. So what if they double and triple team him - if they do, it will leave one on ones for Cyril and Roughie.

Said it after Half Time. Our goals were coming from Roughy up forward. Briefly in the 4th we had Roughy/Buddy/Rioli up forward and guess what? Got goals. Then they rotated out of there and that was that.

NFI why Whitecross wasn't up fwd more. He's a good grab and kick.

Would like to see Breust used as the sub again.

 

[MC_9]

Well yesterday sucked.... Probably the worst I have felt, following sports.

The two teams I follow religiously took a huge hit in their premiership/ championship aspirations.

Excited to start the day off by watching the Bulls first game of the playoffs. Only for it to end with our superstar Derrick Rose to tear his ACL (with 1:30 left in the game) and be out for the entire playoffs, and ends any chance the Bulls had of winning the championship.

Then i thought well at least I have the Hawks. For us to put in one of the most pitiful displays I have seen in years. Such a disappointing performance.

Small consolation for Hawks fans, the premiership dream is still alive despite yesterdays performance.... unlike the Bulls.

 

[MinerBoy]

Turning point for me, or when I realised we were going to let it slip again, was when Cyril squared it up to Bruest. Fantastic vision from Cyril, hit Bruest right on the damn chest, and he flat out dropped it, Sydney ran down the other end and goaled. 12-point turnaround.

Gave them hope, they ran harder and wanted the ball more.

Yep. I called it in the Gamday thread. A real momentum moment right there. We were on the verge of smashing them right there and then Bam.....

 

[JoondalupJ]

OK. Swans ran Hawks legs off with only one on the bench in the last quarter. Swans intensity was fantastic; great smothering. Hawks useless in the ruck - ball went consistently to the swans even when our rucks got a hand on it. We looked old and slow.

Something else going on here folks. Getting run over in the last quarter, capitulation was horrible. We have had a very hard first 5 games the draw has not been friendly. But Geelong just got home so did West Coast. We would have planned for maybe 3 wins 2 loss', but the way we lost to Sydney is a real worry.
Ist half we were all conquering then whack.
My son in Melbourne said they looked not that fussed after the game where as he said watching the tigers , they were devastated when they lost.
Is something worse going on there? With the list and capabilities we have, we should not have got a hiding like that.
If there is anything under ground going on then kiss 2012 good night.
BUT, perhaps its the warming up of the season and perhaps we will not play the bad games when it counts. I remember a season years ago when wwe were clobbered for the first few games and one the flag. Who knows with this game these days its a weird over coached shamozzle, too many tactics and not enough simple footy.
Every ones confused.

 

[JoondalupJ]

IMO Buddy looks confused. I almost punched the TV yesterday when he went to centre the ball yesterday from the boundary, changed his mind, and was called to play on. Just shoot the goals. How many times has he done that this year though (or something similar)? He is now second guessing himself because he is trying to do the team thing.

He and Cyril are the most natural footballers I have seen, and IMO, they are being over-coached. I'd much prefer Buddy kicking 2.11, than 0.3 and constantly second guessing himself.

Play him forward. Same with Cyril. Same with Rough. So what if they double and triple team him - if they do, it will leave one on ones for Cyril and Roughie.

This is very true. How many times do we see not just Buddy but others go to do something then realise no I,ll go somewhere else, turn and twist and get caught. It was us that used to catch the opposition not the other way around, I reckon Buddy has been run down a good half a dozen times this year.

 

[lickmerocks]

deep breath.

we recruited Boumann as a key defender to help fix some problems. flipping play him you idiot selectors.

Hill would of been perfect on that massive oval and we dropped him.

Rioli needs to become our Eddie Betts and we need to live with that. He should be a 50 goal a year permanent forward yet we stuff around with him.

Rough Franklin and Rioli should not be moved away from the forward 50 ever ever again.

We are always undersized in the backline yet we have a 197cm beast playing at Box Hill...(sorry I think I have mentioned that)

Sewell, Lewis Mitchell are plodding along like old men. Give them the week off.

Shiels is floating around like he is a superstar.

Whitecross butchered the ball all day yesterday under pressure.

Well done to the Swans today. They wanted it more and we were cherry ripe for the picking.

Last year we were mega keen on Jaeger. We had to pull the pin on one of our slow mids to get the deal over the line and we missed the opportunity.

 

[Homegrown]

JoondalupJ is correct when he says Over coached Shamozzle.
What coach would come up with the great move of playing the Rough down back/ruck when he was the only forward who looked like kicking us a winning score.
i have been to every game in Launceston, this was as bad as it gets.
1 minute into the third you could tell we were in trouble, 10 minutes in the game was over.
i would love to see to see the following changes this week Osbourne, Bruest, Hale & Cheney. Would also like them to drop an A grader, but this won't happen. They need a shake up and this may work.
3 more losses and we wont make the top 4, can't win it outside the 4

our forward line set up is so frustating, not sure if it's the Aurora set up, But why ou our big forwards (apart from Rough) stationary. They stand with 1 arm in the air asking for it to be kicked on there heads. for most of the match we had 3 big forwards with no crumbers, astounding

There looked to be alot of sore bodies after half time, maybe the tough opening rounds caught up. i hope this was the case otherwise we wil waste another year wth this talented group. They aren't getting any younger

 

[Hawk Since Birth]

We were second to the contest for nearly the entire second half, even when we did manage to get the ball to our forward line the Swans were playing in front of our guys. We need to be first to the football, it's a mantra I drum into kids all the time. First to the ball, play in front and win the damn thing.
Also, some other posters mentioned that we are more concerned with protecting our weaknesses rather than exploiting our strengths - 100% spot on (unfortunately).

 

[GoBuddy]

The biggest issue I saw yesterday afternoon, a lot of players had there hands on their hips in the 3rd quarter. No one wanted to chase and it seemed to me that they were fed up with chasing and tackling.

Our biggest issue is winning the hard ball gets, getting our hands on the ball first!!!! Our game plan is like a rugby plan stack up your defense and then run the ball out with no bloody fwd. It is a taxing game plan, we need to divert to basics. Play Buddy, Roughie and Rioli fwd and just win the footy!!!!!!

 

[gohawkz1]

Rioli needs to become our Eddie Betts and we need to live with that. He should be a 50 goal a year permanent forward yet we stuff around with him.
Rough Franklin and Rioli should not be moved away from the forward 50 ever ever again.

Why the hell can't Clarko see this??????

 

[Dinner Plate]

Tired

Tiredness was the theme of yesterday's game.

First up, just like all the other Hawks fans here, I'm tired of watching the Hawks get overrun.

Yes, the Hawks were tired from playing a physically demanding game in Perth last weekend. And tired from difficult matches in previous weeks. But when you're tired, you adapt your gameplan, right? No.

I'm tired of Clarkson's lack of response to onfield changes. His matchday coaching ability may be the worst of any premiership coach in recent memory. Longmire simply told his players to up the pressure, and play on at all costs. No surprises there. Against a tired Hawks, that was all that was required.

...this was a Horse doing his homework loss - and every other coach is watching.

Apply enough pressure on the Hawks and they will turn the ball over. This has been true for years and the Swans have consistently done it as well as any other team.

Clarkson does not know how to respond.

Our recruitment has been average in the last few years and if Clarkson can't deliver top 4, there are plenty of other coaches who can.

We saw tiredness from players like Burgoyne, Hale and other mature recruits (i.e. too old) who were recruited in the belief we needed to top up on experience because were heading to another premiership. (Look at Geelong for development of new talent while maintaining depth to see how it should be done.)

Buddy is horribly overrated, 1.9 over the past fortnight is nothing short of disgraceful.

Buddy was already tired from the previous weeks. To let him do as he pleases and run around in the midfield was stupidity.

I think it's madness. I don't know another coach who would play a dual Coleman medallist, who is 6-5 in the midfield.

Tired finishing. Going by reports here at BigFooty, the Hawks are doing plenty of goal kicking practise. But ask Jason Dunstall (who never ran around in the midfield) and the Hawks are not doing enough. Too many makeable shots at goal are missing. Has been true for too long.

I could go on. But I worry that the same things will be true next week against the Saints. Even if the Hawks get over the ageing Saints (who have shown they too know how to shut down the Hawks) and go on to win all the games up to the bye, nothing I have seen so far this season indicates the Hawks will be grand finalists. A fifth or sixth place finish may be in order.

Why?

a) lack of depth in midfield and defence (due to poor recruiting)
b) lack of a game plan which takes advantage of our strengths (Buddy and Roughey, with Cyril and good forward pressure should be the best forward line in the competition)
c) lack of an alternative game plan (under finals-type pressure)

 

[Great 2008]

That was long trip back to Hobart. This thread has summed it up pretty well the coaching, the draw, WA trip, game-plan the lot. There is bugger all I did not agree with. The first quarter was the Hawthorn I love. Slick ball movement and the kicking to Rough and Hale was to their advantage........ we looked good.

Then the frustration set in. Make no mistake the Hawks virtually ground to a halt. Sydney were very good at sharing the ball around quickly and efficiently from the stoppages. They played the game on their terms. Seaby (God helps us) made Hale and Broc look second rate. Out midfield could not get near it. Sydney blocked and smothered for each other beautifully. You would be stoked if a Swans supporter.

The familiar cry of 'kick it long' rang loud and true from the stands (much to the chagrin of some posters on this board). Well I dont give a flying, the the fans in the stand are right. Rough, Franklin and Rioli at times were one out in the 50. A decent penetrating kick forward and they were one out. The players will not do it and they are obviously instructed not to. Instead we tried to chip it slowly forward from the centre of the ground maintaining possession. Well this has got me F@#!ked. I do not care how the modern game has evolved kick it to them ffs.

We are not kicking it to 3 nufties, they are all very good players. Franklin must be pulling his hair out. Bloody Cyril outmarked three at one point and took a screamer.......but when he was one out we would not kick it long......go figure.

Franklin was a good head taller than Richards and despite the fact that his over head marking is a liability I would back his ground level recovery over Richards 9/10 times. Our game plan sucks to watch chipping it around endlessly allowing the (quality) opposition to set up and pressure us into an error and make us pay. Roughhead and Hale were taller than there respective opponents as well. Hale and Rough are not quite as proficient at ground level but Breust, Cyril and Ossie generally are.

Very nervous about the next three weeks as well.

 

[lickmerocks]

When I see players streaming through the middle with the ball and have to stop and walk around in circles while players can get forward to receive the ball it makes me laugh. If our problem was that we had no tall marking options then I could understand.

Clarko has been so full on about not being reliant on Buddy he has completely fked with his head.

Let the guy do his thing inside 50 clarko. He needs his confidence and mojo back ASAP and getting him rubbish cheap stats in the backline is not going to do this.

Rough Cyril and Buddy inside forward 50 this week

 

[Beachy]

I saw a bunch of very tired player run around in the second half on the weekend. Our run and carry were non existent. We had not lead up centre half forward and we continually broke down trying to get the ball into our forwards deep. There were multiple times were we kick long into the forward 50 and there was a 1 on 3 match up.

Wake up clarko. Our team is very talented but seriously when it goes to shit play one on one. Hale is very ordinary at the moment, McCauley was flogged. Our on ballers just ran out of puff.

Time to re structure how we play the game a little. So slow in moving the ball forward that the opposition flood our froward line. Buddy has no space and for some bloody reason doesn't get on his bike to lead. He is at his best when leading hard up the ground but because we move the ball so slowly he has 3 players on him all the time.

Shoey is growing well, stratton was banged up by goodes so why not swap shoey onto goodes, reid struggles to kick straight so it would have been better. Great to see hodge back.

Back to basics however, fast ball movement. On the weekend we continually marked and stopped when we needed to play on and move the ball quickly. Like the death by a thousand cuts but when it is not working play on and get it moving quickly. That requires a different structure to kick the ball to someone. Time to go back to a strong spine. Roughy out of the square, buddy at CHF. Rioli goes one out when roughy is in the ruck or swap roughy and buddy over.

Stop bombing the ball to a 1 on 3 duel. Savage was good but did this a lot. Really missing smiths run and carry at the moment. Poppy looked a little lost and I think needs to have a run with in the middle or forward defensive role.

Can not play McCauley and Hale in the same team. Selectors get it right please.

 

[MC_9]

I saw a bunch of very tired player run around in the second half on the weekend. Our run and carry were non existent. We had not lead up centre half forward and we continually broke down trying to get the ball into our forwards deep. There were multiple times were we kick long into the forward 50 and there was a 1 on 3 match up.

Wake up clarko. Our team is very talented but seriously when it goes to shit play one on one. Hale is very ordinary at the moment, McCauley was flogged. Our on ballers just ran out of puff.

Time to re structure how we play the game a little. So slow in moving the ball forward that the opposition flood our froward line. Buddy has no space and for some bloody reason doesn't get on his bike to lead. He is at his best when leading hard up the ground but because we move the ball so slowly he has 3 players on him all the time.

Shoey is growing well, stratton was banged up by goodes so why not swap shoey onto goodes, reid struggles to kick straight so it would have been better. Great to see hodge back.

Back to basics however, fast ball movement. On the weekend we continually marked and stopped when we needed to play on and move the ball quickly. Like the death by a thousand cuts but when it is not working play on and get it moving quickly. That requires a different structure to kick the ball to someone. Time to go back to a strong spine. Roughy out of the square, buddy at CHF. Rioli goes one out when roughy is in the ruck or swap roughy and buddy over.

Stop bombing the ball to a 1 on 3 duel. Savage was good but did this a lot. Really missing smiths run and carry at the moment. Poppy looked a little lost and I think needs to have a run with in the middle or forward defensive role.

Can not play McCauley and Hale in the same team. Selectors get it right please.

100% agree. We simply cannot have McCauley, Hale and Roughead all playing in the same team. It is insane, it makes us slower and gives us one less midfielder to rotate with.

Obviously Roughead still plays, so its down to Hale and McCauley. To be honest Hale has been close to useless this year. Routinely gets flogged in the Ruck and does next to nothing in the forward line. Probably our most disappointing player this year.

Having said all of that, our most concerning area by far was the midfield. I cant remember the last time our Midfield got so comprehensively smashed like it did it the second half.

Credit to Sydney though as they were outstanding, but gee we were very very ordinary.

 

[Gene Simmons]

We can't have Hale & Roughead in the same team..... unfortunately.

You can only have 1 of them in the team to compliment the Full time ruck (McCauley or Bailey when he comes back).

Roughead needs to be full-forward.

Buddy needs to roaming around the 50...

I don't understand how we cannot come up with a gameplan to suit these 2 both being forward?? Let's not forget they kicked 200 goals between them in 1 season!

Hawkins/Pods..... Cloke/Dawes..... surely!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kolchak]

Is it just me or did anyone else think that Suckling shirked a contest in the fourth quarter. Led to that big Goodes mark a few seconds later. Flood gates opened up after that.

 

[robs_drunk]

Maculey must play as he's a real ruckman, the problem is Hale if he's not putting it on the scoreboard he is near useless doesn't physically push the other ruckman and has no impact arround the ground tackling/bumping.

We need to re-evaluate some of our super kicks in the backline as they just don't win defensively looking at you suckling, cheney(barely a good kick) and burgoyne(when down there).

first requirement of being a backman is winning defensive 1 on 1's like guerra.

Also if gibson can't get up play bouman this week.

 

[DeanTheHawk]

What hurt more:
- Losing Josh Kennedy........for nothing!
- Drafting Ellis over Pendlebury
- Drafting Thorp over Selwood

 

[grizzlym]

What hurt more:
- Losing Josh Kennedy........for nothing!
- Drafting Ellis over Pendlebury
- Drafting Thorp over Selwood

- finding the right thread to post this in?