Autopsy Rnd 6, Hawthorn vs St Kilda

[MinerBoy]

Would be leading the PCM at this stage you would think.

I'd be disappointed if Lewis wasn't personally but I agree Guerra is having an excellent season.

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Clarkson should be praised for the decision to sub Boumann. From then on we actaully played better and drew away from the Saints.

Praised? The first 5-10 min after Boumann was sub we looked the worst for entire match. When we did pull away it was from our midfeilders finally getting on top, in no way did the fact that Puopolo was on the feild and Boumann was off have anything to do with this.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Praised? The first 5-10 min after Boumann was sub we looked the worst for entire match. When we did pull away it was from our midfeilders finally getting on top, in no way did the fact that Puopolo was on the feild and Boumann was off have anything to do with this.

Boumann put in some great efforts.

It's damn tough for a KPD - the price of not winning a contest is extremely high, and he lost a couple due to free kick infringments and mis-timings (aka not being good enough). This is the price of learning.

The chase he put on Milne was amazing and that should be shown to the entire playing group in the match review sessions today. Absolutely brilliant.

I thought it was strange to take him off given we didn't have Gibson out there. But we were well in control of the game at that point (although we did drop 4 goals as soon as Boumann went off) - it was quite an attacking move to then decide to ramp up our forward pressure.

Not a good decision in hindsight - but one I can undersatnd.

 

[Dinner Plate]

Our best backline set up when all are fit is without a doubt-

GUERRA GILLHAM GIBSON
BIRCHALL SHOENMAKERS HODGE

Agreed. Looks like a pipe dream, but we need to be injury-free to be a genuine flag contender.

An interesting stat on Goo from last night. 25 disposals at 96% efficiency. Simply stunning. Have been saying for years he's one of the most underrated players in the entire league.

And has the most underrated hair in the league. Yeah yeah.

HOW DO YOU HAVE AN EMPTY FORWARD LINE AT A CENTRE BOUNCE?

This will remain the first question we will ask after every game this year, I fear. I cannot explain it.

Player by player
2- Roughead - he is LOVING his footy at the moment. He looks quick, really quick and was influential in all the clearances he was involved in.

My heart is in my mouth every time he lands on his knee after a ruck contest. But I am amazed at how well he is playing on the ball, and how clean and strong he looks in the forward 50.

25 - Schoenmakers - WOW!!!!! This guy is getting better every week.

Agreed. Fantastic performance (with room for improvement that will come with time and confidence, and a few more kilos.)

37 - Whitecross (my new nickname for him is Angelita, for little Angelo, named after my previous favourite no. 37.) Rarely looks like turning it over, always keeps his feet. I did not rate him at all when he first started. Not the first time I've been wrong. I even hung up on him when he called to get me to renew my membership last year. (Sorry mate, I was in a meeting.)

15 mins left in 3rd quarter, inside defensive 50. Birchall dives into the footy HEAD first, note, Milne 'slides' into Birchall with his feet. Makes contact. Lets see if this faces scrutiny this week.

Milne makes Jason Akermanis look like a genuinely top bloke. From my biased perspective, Milne deserves to get rubbed out for that slide.

Hawks seemed to escape major injury-free from Saturday. But Hodge's back, Strat's head and Buddy's ankle have the potential for concern. Fingers crossed.

Melbourne, Freo, then Richmond can only be pencilled in at this stage.

 

[gohawkz1]

The chase he put on Milne was amazing and that should be shown to the entire playing group in the match review sessions today. Absolutely brilliant.
/quote]

Was great to watch!! The kid will be a player, just needs a little more time and development...

 

[MinerBoy]

I guess we'll never know but I wonder how much affect the week's events had on Milne and Montagna. Both were absolute non-events for the entire match. Delighted they provided nothing and full credit to their respective opponents, but I have to wonder if they were really 'on the job'.

 

[raff23]

Saints supporters crying over the umpiring... Had we kick straight the game wold of been over in the first, gee it really pains me when supporters and yes even our own supporters blame the Umps for their team losing the game.
If a team is good enough then it would not rely on the umps to help them win a game.

the umpiring wasnt even that bad, geez what a bunch of whingers the saints fans are, they led the free kick count @ 3 qtr time by 2 ffs, alot of those so called free kicks were 50-50, there were hardly any blatent wrong decisions, the only 2 were they were stitched up were the 2 play on calls inside the 50 were stanley was unlucky and the steven one. It was only in the last qtr we got heaps of free kicks because we dominated all over the ground and were getting in first. There just complaining because they support the saints, the worst performing club in the history of the game, get over it sooks.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Just RE: the Boumann subbing, the best player on the field at that point in time was Cyril and we go and sub on a small forward for a tall defender, surely this was a position on the field we were going fine. Did we not need a tall defender? Because from what I read on this forum one of the things we need most is a KPD.

I really don't like the fact Clarko has subbed Boumann out in the two games he has played. I hope this doesn't start playing in the back of his mind and he ends up contributing nothing to the Hawthorn Football Club. I don't have an issue with Shoemakers at all but as Bosk said how can Clarko have the patience with Shoemakers and allow game time to help him develop but not show it to Boumann. Surely as much time in a real match would allow the defense to gel better, if Boumann was getting beaten by Koschitzke why wasn't he moved onto Stanely or tried as the third man up. There seemed to be other options and Clarko jump to the extreme of subbing him out. A tall defender for a small forward, if we had gone onto lose this game we would be talking about this a lot more than we already are, poor coaching in my opinion.

...but we didn't and we ended up playing much better after Boumann was off so i have no idea how you can call it poor coaching.

 

[Off The Couch]

the umpiring wasnt even that bad, geez what a bunch of whingers the saints fans are, they led the free kick count @ 3 qtr time by 2 ffs, alot of those so called free kicks were 50-50, there were hardly any blatent wrong decisions, the only 2 were they were stitched up were the 2 play on calls inside the 50 were stanley was unlucky and the steven one. It was only in the last qtr we got heaps of free kicks because we dominated all over the ground and were getting in first. There just complaining because they support the saints, the worst performing club in the history of the game, get over it sooks.

We as hawk supporters are the last team to be having a go at others about whinging over the umps - our own coach does it

We got a good run Saturday night but it didn't decide or influence the outcome IMO.

 

[TAITA]

We as hawk supporters are the last team to be having a go at others about whinging over the umps - our own coach does it

We got a good run Saturday night but it didn't decide or influence the outcome IMO.

I disagree CP, for the first time in my memory we sat back and evaluated how the umpires would adjudicate the match and played football accordingly - it was a revelation.

The week before we barrelled stacks on the mill desperately hoping for a HTB against the Swans only to give them spread, run and carry - shooting fish in a barrell - for them.

The thing about umpires is, you can work with them, and they love to see you learn early and respectfully.

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

...but we didn't and we ended up playing much better after Boumann was off so i have no idea how you can call it poor coaching.

Poor coaching would be putting the Hawthorn Football Club in a situation with three opposition forwards, Reiwoldt 193cm, Koschitzke 197cm and Stanley 200cm, and only Stratton 189cm and Schoenmakers 193cm as our tall defenders.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Poor coaching would be putting the Hawthorn Football Club in a situation with three opposition forwards, Reiwoldt 193cm, Koschitzke 197cm and Stanley 200cm, and only Stratton 189cm and Schoenmakers 193cm as our tall defenders.

Poor coaching would have been losing the game because of the decision to take off Boumann. Also note that having Boumann on the ground didn't slow down those forwards as they were going ok before he was subbed off.

Fact is that after Boumann came off we didn't look any worse off at all so how you can say it was bad coaching by Clarkson is beyond me.

 

[Prudster]

If Boumann had his appendix (?) taken out in the last day or so, would it be a reasonable assumption that this may have played a part in him being subbed off? Also the fact that he was getting soundly beaten, and by having Hodge on a tall forward, we are no worse off in defence, while giving us more run with an extra small on.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I disagree CP, for the first time in my memory we sat back and evaluated how the umpires would adjudicate the match and played football accordingly - it was a revelation.

The week before we barrelled stacks on the mill desperately hoping for a HTB against the Swans only to give them spread, run and carry - shooting fish in a barrell - for them.

The thing about umpires is, you can work with them, and they love to see you learn early and respectfully.

Good point. The holding the ball rule has become a farce again. You need to work with the umpires as you put it. Do they still gets oranges at half time?

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Poor coaching would have been losing the game because of the decision to take off Boumann. Also note that having Boumann on the ground didn't slow down those forwards as they were going ok before he was subbed off.

Fact is that after Boumann came off we didn't look any worse off at all so how you can say it was bad coaching by Clarkson is beyond me.

But we did look worst off for the rest of the third quarter, we looked weak down back, lost the quarter and if Reiwoldt and Milne had kicked straight we would of gone into three quarter time down on the score board.

I can completely understand Clarko being angered by Boumann first off giving away a soft free kick but then failing to stay with his man, which allowed Stanley to run on and get the handball recieve and kick the goal, but dragging the kid and putting the red vest on him was not a wise decision with an undersized backline.

 

[Baz_hawk]

It was interesting that moments after we subbed off Boumann, the Saints kicked two pretty quick goals from high balls inside the 50. Whether this was a result of Boumann being out of the game or just a lapse in defense remains to be seen, I did feel that they tried to do it more once he was out of the game however this didn't work for them as we always had the extra man on the ground

 

[Rioli magic]

The reason the Saints got on top in the last 10 mins of that quarter was not because Boumann was subbed off. He would not have stopped the ball getting there, maybe could have influenced the contest, maybe not? Certainly hadn't influenced many high balls previously on the night.

The reason it was there though was because they had the momentum, it happens in every game - and that was there time with it. Maybe one of the midfielders getting flogged at that point in time should have been subbed instead.

As for it being a poor coaching move, ffs we ran away with it and outscored the opposition from that point on. Have a whinge about our slow ball movement at times or something!!

 

[lethalselbow]

Just RE: the Boumann subbing, the best player on the field at that point in time was Cyril and we go and sub on a small forward for a tall defender, surely this was a position on the field we were going fine. Did we not need a tall defender? Because from what I read on this forum one of the things we need most is a KPD.

I really don't like the fact Clarko has subbed Boumann out in the two games he has played. I hope this doesn't start playing in the back of his mind and he ends up contributing nothing to the Hawthorn Football Club. I don't have an issue with Shoemakers at all but as Bosk said how can Clarko have the patience with Shoemakers and allow game time to help him develop but not show it to Boumann. Surely as much time in a real match would allow the defense to gel better, if Boumann was getting beaten by Koschitzke why wasn't he moved onto Stanely or tried as the third man up. There seemed to be other options and Clarko jump to the extreme of subbing him out. A tall defender for a small forward, if we had gone onto lose this game we would be talking about this a lot more than we already are, poor coaching in my opinion.

Top post!!

The subbing off of Boumann was one of the strangest decisions I've seen, of late. We were getting murdered in the air and Clarko subs off one of our tallest players and brings on our smallest?!?! The game looked like it was about to spin out of control after that decision and fortunately our lads turned it on otherwise Clarkson was going to have to go to a press conference and pull out another excuse. (Been hating the Clarkson excuses at press conferences of late: ducking, the draw, waaaahhh.. harden the f**k up Clarko and don't give an excuse when we lose!!!)

I thought Boumann did okay for his time on the ground, though was clearly beaten. Second game for the Hawks? The guy gives 100% and doesn't squib a contest. 196cm tall and still meating up. Could be a big answer to our backline, which has a lot of 6 footers. If he can get more game time, that fist of his could stick it up a lot of tall opponent forwards.

Puopolo was amazing when he came on and did some great stuff. The running game did take over and so it did prove to be a good decision, but I would have still been going with another player to sub off. Puopolo is too small to be a sub, as he can't cover enough rolls. I think a better player on the bench is one who can fill in a number of rolls.

 

[PenAndPaper]

The reason the Saints got on top in the last 10 mins of that quarter was not because Boumann was subbed off. He would not have stopped the ball getting there, maybe could have influenced the contest, maybe not? Certainly hadn't influenced many high balls previously on the night.

The reason it was there though was because they had the momentum, it happens in every game - and that was there time with it. Maybe one of the midfielders getting flogged at that point in time should have been subbed instead.

As for it being a poor coaching move, ffs we ran away with it and outscored the opposition from that point on. Have a whinge about our slow ball movement at times or something!!

Spot on!

I like how Boumann had no affect on high balls coming in while he was on the field yet some Hawks supporters just think he is a lot better than he really is. He is not a monster FB, he is a spoiling FB who can't even spoil that well.

Can't wait to have Gilham back so we don't need to play Boumann

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Spot on!

I like how Boumann had no affect on high balls coming in while he was on the field yet some Hawks supporters just think he is a lot better than he really is. He is not a monster FB, he is a spoiling FB who can't even spoil that well.

Can't wait to have Gilham back so we don't need to play Boumann

Kozzy went nuts once bouman was subbed...
Perhaps he wasn't that bad?

 

[PenAndPaper]

Kozzy went nuts once bouman was subbed...
Perhaps he wasn't that bad?

Kosi kicked 2 goals after Boumann was subbed off and 3 before that, I would hardly say he went 'nuts'.
Perhaps he wasn't that good?

 

[hawker39]

An Hawthorn kicked 5 goals to 1 in the last quarter.

Therefore on the basis of evidence - Clarkson vindicated.

I could say it was a brave decision.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Kosi kicked 2 goals after Boumann was subbed off and 3 before that, I would hardly say he went 'nuts'.
Perhaps he wasn't that good?

In terms of marking and contesting, kozzy was far more influential when bouman went off

More to the game then raw statistics

 

[PenAndPaper]

In terms of marking and contesting, kozzy was far more influential when bouman went off

More to the game then raw statistics

If he was that influential after Boumann went off we wouldn't have kicked away and won by 6 goals. The fact is that after Boumann went off we played better so i have no idea how you can think it was bad coaching by Clarko.

Bringing on Puopolo provided so much more forward pressure which made the Saints make stupid errors, which we capitalised on with goals.

 

[xellis]

Boumann was clearly beaten on the night but I have hopes for him in the future. Still very young.

Highlight of the night for me, Cyril getting two goals on the RIGHT FOOT! Amazing