Autopsy Round 10, 2020: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *RYDER 250TH*

[Human Person]

Even Steele was down IMO.

I know his stats look fairly impressive, but didn't win a lot of inside footy.

Credit to our backline for holding up so well considering we were comprehensively beaten in the guts.

Steele is a strong bodied tackling machine with good skills, he's not a contested pig though. Likewise Jones is a beast but seems like only when ball is in hands and he's on the burst. Someone who can consistently burrow into traffic and get a handball out would really help us out. An Oliver or Cripps type would help on days where the ruck isn't dominating. Alot of us are hoping that Bytel is that player, but we should be looking hard at trade targets.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Rankine is clearly loaded with talent and is already having a real impact but the gushing from Bruce and co is already tiresome. He lays a normal tackle and gets raved about. There's also zero balance. The Battle goal in the last qtr comes from a Coffield intercept mark where Rankine is his direct opponent. Rankine lets Coffield fly unopposed to take an uncontested mark and Coff kicks it to Battle. No mention of Rankine's error from the commentarors.

 

[L_W_P]

Love Battle, he's honestly our new Goddard type utility, albeit a bit fitter and harder at it. Because he's got such a strong build already it's easy to froget that he hasn't even turned 22 yet. Will be a very good player for a long time, and even though he might not ever be our best player, he could well become our most important in a couple of years time

He is looking like the best possible version of Jason Blake.

Compare us to the 2009 GF team and it's pretty exciting...

FB: Jason Gram - Zac Dawson - Steven Baker
FB: Ben Long - Dougal Howard - Ben Paton
HB: Brendon Goddard - Sam Fisher - Sam Gilbert
HB: Nick Coffield - Jake Carlisle - Cal Wilkie
C: Farren Ray - Lenny Hayes - Nick Dal Santo
C: Jack Billings - Hunter Clarke - Brad Hill
HF: Andrew McQualter - Justin Koschitzke - Luke Ball
HF: Dean Kent - Tim Membrey - Jack Sinclair
FF: Steven Milne - Nick Riewoldt - Adam Schneider
FF: Dan Butler - Max King - Nick Hind
R: Steven King - Leigh Montagna - Clint Jones
R: Rowan Marshall - Jade Gresham - Jack Steele
I: Jason Blake - Sean Dempster - Raph Clarke - Michael Gardiner
I: Josh Battle - Jarryn Geary - Zak Jones - Paddy Ryder

 

[Plugger35]

Underrated moment, Phillips' spoil on Ben King in the Goal square going back with the flight. Had no right to get a hand to it with a 202 freak standing at the top of the square.
I know he made an error or two last night, but so did the like of Billings, Gresh, and Carlisle, for someone who's played a handful of games, not had a VFL to practice in, and had about an hour's notice that he was playing, he did a serviceable job. His gut running really helped at times.

I thought he was OK last night considering that was his first game at AFL level this year, made the odd mistake but the good things he did outweighed the bad.

I wouldn't be against him getting another game for us against the Cats.

 

[Human Person]

Watching the highlights reminded me how important Battle was last night, stood up to give us another marking target with King and Membrey struggling.

That clutch mark and goal in the last quarter played a big part in our win, great to see young guys like him and Clark stand up under that sort of pressure.

Membrey looks out of form at the moment and King is starting to look a bit weary which is understandable with this being his first full season of AFL.

Unfortunately we don't have any other decent key forward replacements for them to give them a rest so we just have to press on with them.

Watching the highlights also reminded me of how good Butler was last night, all 4 of his goals were brilliant and came at crucial times, he is the matchwinner we expected Hill to be, getting him for next to nothing makes up for us selling the farm for Hill.

That being said Hill played a decent game last night apart from one bad turnover, he is working hard and providing some good run for us, hopefully it all clicks for him soon and he can be a matchwinner for us as well.

I'm not sure where he'll sit in the best and fairest voting, but that best team player award (whatever it's called) should have his name on it. He's had a big task this year, just plugging holes, not able to settle in one position but play everywhere, and he's done it brilliantly. I feel a lot better about the team when I know he can go help wherever needs him most.

 

[Human Person]

I thought he was OK last night considering that was his first game at AFL level this year, made the odd mistake but the good things he did outweighed the bad.

I wouldn't be against him getting another game for us against the Cats.

I wouldn't either, he may get the Savage treatment though if Ross and Geary are ready to return.

 

[Southern Saint]

Are we allowed to get ahead of ourselves yet?

Having a hard time keeping the lid on at our place, especially my 8yo who has never seen us so high on the ladder!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[L_W_P]

Rankine is clearly loaded with talent and is already having a real impact but the gushing from Bruce and co is already tiresome. He lays a normal tackle and gets raved about. There's also zero balance. The Battle goal in the last qtr comes from a Coffield intercept mark where Rankine is his direct opponent. Rankine lets Coffield fly unopposed to take an uncontested mark and Coff kicks it to Battle. No mention of Rankine's error from the commentarors.

Post game they interviewed Dan Butler and they were asking him about GC and specifically Rankine. It's Cryil Rioli levels of fapping from the commentary team.

All 4 of Butler's goals were as good, if not better than Rankine's. But nah... let's all rave about the new 'magic' black kid of the comp.

"Smart" vs "Athletic": how AI reveals the unconscious racial bias in our language - Prospect Magazine

It's easy to imagine sports commentators have moved on from the sort of offensive comments that received widespread attention in the 1980s. But AI analysis shows how an old bias endures in language differences

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk

This is exactly what happens in the AFL.

White players are 'smart, brilliant, genius, hard workers' etc
Indigenous players are 'magical, mercurial, naturally gifted, do what nobody can' etc

That's a rant for another time though...

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Hard to think of a more integral five minute patch of football for St Kilda than Hunter Clark's last night. Not since the 2010 Grand Final Draw.

Only twice has St Kilda won three consecutive interstate away games in a season: 2009 & 2010.

Butler is elite. Took it on himself to make absolutely sure of that last goal. This is why you go and get premiership players.

Decision against Howard in the 2nd quarter was one of the worst ever made. Junior umpire overruled two umpires with GF experience from 100 metres away because of no to minimal contact.

It's very ironic to hear Luke Hodge continually defend decisions like that one against Dougal (as well as the soft 50 against Paddy when Weller flopped like Lebron) when you consider the manner in which he played the game.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't think he stunk it up Gringo. I think that's a bit harsh but you're entitled to your opinion. I thought he wasn't great but he certainly wasn't the worst player on the ground. As birdy stated he was good defensively , took a nice grab and I thought he was left out to dry by some of his team mates poor skill execution

You are very lenient. He had 3 marks and 5 possessions. He got 9 AF points. Each mark and possession gets points, you lose points for errors. To get that low he must have had very few effective disposals and the next worst player on the ground was 17 ahead of him and had 4 more possessions and he was an 18 year old kid in his first game. Sexton isn't the player he was 12 months ago, I doubt very much we left every other player on the ground unchecked and put a hard tag on Sexton.

I didn't really notice him even playing, the one play I remember he cannoned into the back of a player up on the wing and spoiled a mark, it looked frustrated and close to a free kick. I like Long but anyone that thought he played a good game is not using critical thinking. We all do it, you decide you like a player and you can't see a single mistake while others have one or two mistakes and we act like they eat babies. If Seb Ross had had Long's game people would want to burn him on the stake.

 

[John2010362340]

Sells candy to Rankine in the back pocket hahahahaha!!!

That handball to Hill was absolutely magnificent!

 

[Human Person]

Rankine is clearly loaded with talent and is already having a real impact but the gushing from Bruce and co is already tiresome. He lays a normal tackle and gets raved about. There's also zero balance. The Battle goal in the last qtr comes from a Coffield intercept mark where Rankine is his direct opponent. Rankine lets Coffield fly unopposed to take an uncontested mark and Coff kicks it to Battle. No mention of Rankine's error from the commentarors.

Or Clarke stepping around him with ease on a couple of occasions. He's a rockstar player, both with skills and personality, and the commentators double down on that for ratings. I was watching part of the game last week and Dermie was going on about him even though he was nowhere near the action, Nicky Dal chimed in with "You know there are other players on the ground right?" and he replied with a tongue-in-cheek "We don't care about them right now."

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think that graph shows how well each player did vs how well they usually do? (Ie their average number of points?)

So from top to bottom it shows who played way better than their average, down to who played well below their average.

For instance, it shows long, ryder and jones a long under their 'average' dot- indicating they played poorer games than usual.

The listing of players from top to bottom is misleading- because that graph just shows how well they beat (or lost to) their own average. (I think?)

So its not saying rankine played better than butler- just that rankine beat his average by more than butler beat his average.

Im assuming because rankine has only played a couple of games- he probably has a low average- its not hard for him to way outperform it currently.

It's a useful and dumb graph all at once

Up to a point.
For example Steele took a ripper mark and goaled. Then another. That goes real well on his rating. It probably more than offsets that he only had 3 clearances in the game, only 6 contested possessions. I'm not bagging him out, but even though he had a good game, we were still beaten in the midfield and missing the kind of output he normally has there.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Just finished reading peoples opinions on last night - its interesting how contrasting differing posters see things. It doesnt make them wrong its just we all see the game and players efforts differently at times.

The one consistent was our midfield were absolutley slaughtered in clearances GCS totalled 72 clearances to our 42, yet we won hitouts. A lot of our mids were down on their usual output last night, but lets not under sell how strong GCS are in there. Swallow tagged Jones and he struggled to have any influence consequently Ratten moving him to a wing at times. Greenwood & Miller consistently got first hands to the ball and fed it out. If it hadnt been for efforts from Billings & Steele we would have been in trouble.

The other consensus was our defence held up brlilliantly. They as a collective were sensational and kept us in the game when GCS were completely dominating our mids for periods of the game.

The other thing I have read was people being critical of Ratten, believing he was beaten by Dew in the coaching ranks. Apart from Steele & Billings I thought our mids looked tired consequently believe Ratten did well, pulling moves and eeking out a win with a team who had the engine room getting smashed. There were a couple of individual performances eg Butler & Battle that made a difference in the last, however the midfield was all about the players & their attitude last night.

With the above in mind I still think we need to find another player or two to rotate thru the midfield when like last night things are going against us. Ross playing and back in form will make a difference, but we still need another IMO. Whether that means biting the bullet and playing Byrnes or Bytel for the remainder of the year or developing a player like Kent, we need another player to help carry the midfield load.

I agree with others who have also suggested we rest and rotate our ruckman over the next few weeks and give Abbott a run.

The big question will we be able to get up again for Mondays game? Recent history shows we play a lot better at the Gabba than Metricon, but Geelong have an extra days recovery. This is a game where our rucks should dominate, which will assist our mids and hopefully Ross is back. But our test against teams with larger and talented small defenders eg Stewart, Bews is getting the same goals out of our small forwards.

If I am honest after seeing how tired our blokes were after last nights game, I dont think they will be able to get back up to meet Geelong in 3 days. Hopefully I am wrong, because we have a 9 day break following to take on the Bombers.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Interesting viewpoint on how our game style “invites opposition to play good footy”. Tend to agree, which is why we see Crows, Freo, Syd etc play outta their skins in down years.
That being said, I wouldn’t change it. Once we get another 50 games collectively under our belts, with the addition (hopefully) of a star or two, look out.

 

[Verdun]

Having a hard time keeping the lid on at our place, especially my 8yo who has never seen us so high on the ladder!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

My 16 year old daughter is the same (texted me this morning - we are 2nd on the ladder)!! My 13 yo son only knows losses and grief from his mates.

It is an effort to keep a lid on it......that feeling after a loss that should have been a win creeps back!

My memories of the Hawkins goal / point and the toe poke from Scarlett are etched in my brain and would loooooove a w against the Cats.....

reckon the lid will come off if that eventuates.

 

[The_Steadier]

Post game they interviewed Dan Butler and they were asking him about GC and specifically Rankine. It's Cryil Rioli levels of fapping from the commentary team.

All 4 of Butler's goals were as good, if not better than Rankine's. But nah... let's all rave about the new 'magic' black kid of the comp.

"Smart" vs "Athletic": how AI reveals the unconscious racial bias in our language - Prospect Magazine

It's easy to imagine sports commentators have moved on from the sort of offensive comments that received widespread attention in the 1980s. But AI analysis shows how an old bias endures in language differences

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk

This is exactly what happens in the AFL.

White players are 'smart, brilliant, genius, hard workers' etc
Indigenous players are 'magical, mercurial, naturally gifted, do what nobody can' etc

That's a rant for another time though...

That's a real bugbear of mine too.

Buddy franklin has done things by 'magic' his whole career.... as if the blood, sweat, tears, commitment, sacrifice, discipline etc never happened.

 

[gringo2011]

good info 66 - just had a look at steele stats this year.
He doesn't get as much of it as some of the mids (Neale - Brad Crouch ), however averages the same as Martin , Cripps and Dangerfield / Bont a few less disposals, but one thing that stands out he has far less turnovers and Clangers than Martin , Cripps , Bont and Dangerfield.

So Steele is flying under the radar - so impact on a game I actually can say I rate him higher than Cripps , Dangerfield , Martin , Bont and Oliver.

Oliver 2nd in total clangers
Martin 5th
Cripps 10th
B.Crouch 10th
Dangerfield 15th

Steele nowhere near the top 50

Turnovers
Oliver 2nd
Neale 20th
Bont 25th
Martin 42nd
Cripps 69th
B.Crouch 25th
Dangerfield 36th

Steele 98th

Steele
● Ranked 10th in Total Disposals
● Ranked 10th in Total Effective Disposals
● Ranked 13th in Total Contested Possessions
● Ranked 2nd in Total Tackles

Martin is 29
Dangerfield is 30
Bont is 25
Cripps is 25
Oliver is 23
B.Crouch is 27
Neale is 27
Steele is 24yrs 7mths and has improved every year and has gone to another level - if they call Bont , Danger , Cripps , Martin elite - Steele has actually been better than all of them and he is younger than all of them.

Steele is a surgeon with his disposal. He rarely wastes a pass. The difference with Steele and guys like Bont and Cripps, is he doesn't have those times where he steps up a level when the team needs a lift. He's more subtle and consistent like Lenny Hayes was. I reckon he'll be like Lenny where he ends up everyone's favourite player from another team.

 

[gringo2011]

Byrnes is a clearance player , Phillips is a VFL player and will never be anything else than outside running
player with no footskills pretty useless in turnover game .

Not calling for debutante 1 hour before the game .

Love Ratts ..think he is absolutely fantastic coach rapt we won a game we would normally lose.

I thought they played an outside runner on a wing to send Billings closer to the ball by the look of it. He was better than I thought Phillips. Lucky we got a win though.

 

[gringo2011]

I thought Phillips was good, However, There were 2 occasions in which, and i dont know if this was lack of games this year or lack of confidence, but he had an opportunity to have a ping from 45m out directly in front under no pressure and kicked out wide to membrey 50m out close to the boundary. It might have turned out ok but he missed the kick and it was a wasted opportunity.
Then in the 3rd we had all the momentum and were up by a game high 15 points he takes a mark on the forward flank with 3 GC around him and tries to give a pissy handball to i think sinclair who was manned up on the boundary, it resulted in a turnover and a goal to Rankine. Suns then get a clearance and another quick goal. All of a sudden its back to 3 points when we could've gone forward and gone up 21 points and put them away.

They were big moments in the context of the game and he didn't handle the situation.
I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though because he's young and a hard worker and it was his first game in a while. But gee he needs to lift his game awareness or he wont be playing again

He's played 11 games so far. He is probably ahead of guys like Coofield after 11 games to be honest. Those mistakes are probably to be expected at that level experience.

 

[gringo2011]

I'll need to watch the game again because I totally missed Longy's shocker. I did notice him attacking the opposition, tackling like a beast & a few vital contests that he made to kill the ball.

He didn't record a single tackle stat so it must have been someone else you saw tackling.

 

[CursingFijian]

We were outplayed most of the game yet still found a way to win.

That game confirmed the two ruckman work against the lesser/inexperienced ruckman but doesn't against the dominant rucks. Ryder didn't look great, and in hindsight, this is the game we should have rested him for.

Hunter's last quarter highlighted how special of a player he is. The time and space he was able to create when he had no right to do so was incredible. The best players set up when the game is on the line, and Hunter showed he will be an incredible finals player in the future.

Butler outstanding again. Billings also fantastic - he's such a well rounded and consistent player, and doesnt get the kudos he deserves for his entire season. Steele was down in the first half but to see him respond in the second half showed how well he has developed. The midfield was clearly beaten all game and will likely be what holds us back at the end of the season. There is clearly still a spot for Ross in there.

Battle didnt have a dominant game, but those two marks and goals he kicked were so important. His goal kicking has been a bit off all year so to deliver when it mattered was huge.

Ed Phillips has a bit of the D-Mac syndrome where he will do something really good that your surprised he could execute but then the laws of physics mean he has to immediately follow it up with something frustrating or outright bad. He chose to handball a lot when he was in a better position than the person he gave it too, but that might of also been a directive from the coaches to not kick as much. He probably didnt go as bad as if felt like he was, but I felt extra stressed every time he got the ball. Overall, he's not the worst depth out there but I'm a long way off trusting him as a player.

Carlisle and Howard work very well together as a defence pair. Very rarely do they get into each others space and there is a great understanding of what each other does well, and they play into that. Coffield and Paton both developing nicely. I didnt notice Wilkie until the last quarter, but I thought he also stepped up when it mattered and took control of the backline like a pro. Long was not good. Overall with defence, there was a lot of talk yesterday about how we've moved on from long, 45m kicks out of defence but last night there were many times thats should we should have done. Kick it down the line to one of our 5 tall targets to try to mark or bring to ground which would give time for the defence to set up rather than trying cute handballs that weren't on and inviting more pressure on themselves.

Membrey's form is concerning. He has just been unsighted for too many games this year. King looks as if he tiring a bit. We kicking it to King in large packs too many times throughout the game. Again, we are playing a large amount of tall forwards so we dont need to put it on Kings head every time. It just made the fwd line too predictable and easier to defend against. I also think King and Membrey are flying for the same ball a lot - they need better separation moving forward.

Great post.

As time ticked on in the last quarter the game got really tight with both teams scrapping hard to tie the ball up or extract it from contested situations. It seems like Hunter shines whenever that happens.

With a few more preseasons it would be awesome if he could make the move to the middle ala Zak Jones.

 

[gringo2011]

Electing to take possession in the first place is being considered your prior opportunity now.

That's where they are moving to.

Not all the umps have bought into it yet-hence the current (infuriating) inconsistency.
But when they all get on board that will be how it is.
And it will make the game better.

It's the same as the change to deliberate out of bounds- we were all up in arms everytime that was paid years ago- now it's just part of the game.

And it has improved the game- coaches no longer use the boundary line as a safety blanket tactic.

I hate it, you would be better of waiting for someone else to pick it up. You reward the player standing back. Fiora would have ben a champion in today's game.

 

[stfan]

The one consistent was our midfield were absolutley slaughtered in clearances GCS totalled 72 clearances to our 42, yet we won hitouts. A lot of our mids were down on the usual output last night, but lets not under sell how strong GCS are in there

With Paddy this year the trend is that he is very good against soo so rucks, and in these games his directional tapwork feeds our mids very well.

From now on I would like to see him sit out such games. I think this too will be better for Marshall's development in that he gets to play some games as a true No 1 ruck.

If I am honest after seeing how tired our blokes were after last nights game, I dont think they will be able to get back up to meet Geelong in 3 days. Hopefully I am wrong, because we have a 9 day break following to take on the Bombers.

Which is why I was advocating some resting, when compressed schedules are on. And even with out some targeted resting is probably a good idea.

Max looked tired to me. With his frame, and in his first season playing at AFL even in a normal year he probably should be rested from time to time. With a compressed schedule moreso.

I think there is a strong case to rest Max against Cats to freshen him up for the Dons and Lions games.

Even more so with Ryder.

Geary will be an in. It is just a pity that Ross has been out of form.

Even more of a pity that Hannas and Dunstan are both out injured. While slow Dunstan was very good against North and would have been handy about now.

 

[gringo2011]

Rankine is clearly loaded with talent and is already having a real impact but the gushing from Bruce and co is already tiresome. He lays a normal tackle and gets raved about. There's also zero balance. The Battle goal in the last qtr comes from a Coffield intercept mark where Rankine is his direct opponent. Rankine lets Coffield fly unopposed to take an uncontested mark and Coff kicks it to Battle. No mention of Rankine's error from the commentarors.

He's is fantastic to watch when it's not against us. He does insane stuff and so ****ing cocky he make Acker look like a good bloke but **** he can do some freakish stuff. He's played a few games, he's never going to be a hard defensive player but he'll put on a show and win them games that they have no right to win.