Review Round 11, 2024 - Hawthorn vs. Brisbane Lions

[LionKing]

We are just so soft and lazy this season , it’s like they are waiting for someone else to make things happen
No energy no striving to win or improve

Today was just another typical,half an effort loss , some of these blokes need a reality Check !

100% SPOT ON

 

[irel]

Are we tanking for a better MSD pick?


On F1 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[martinson]

100% SPOT ON

Yep. Have to agree. No fire or ruthlessness from the first quarter. This has been a feature of most games this year.

I guess the time has come to decide whether this is what we are now under Fagan , or that somehow we can rekindle the desire and capacity to be a top team.

If it's the latter then we only have the one chance in this off season to get together the best group of players and promising players with potential we can and trade some deadwood.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

IMO we need to look at our 24-28 year old players who are worth $$$$ in the market for draft pick/s or young talent.
With the Tassie team sucking in picks in a few years, we need to act soon.
Cam, Hugh and Zac are all candidates. I respect what they given the club but I fear they have all plateaued.
Yes, others had bad games but this season is over in my eyes.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Charlie looks unhappy when he's going well so it's hard to tell if there's a physical issue . He did try hard again today but just can't nail set shots and doesn't seem to have the burst he had to break clear.

Fagan still thinks Rayner's 20 and needs encouragement.

I think with Charlie its about moments.

If he has a shot for goal in a 'moment' where is might swing momentum, a 'moment' that will make a difference his is shocking.

If the team is going well, he is getting good supply he can be spectacular and the crowd love him and we all sing along.

Charlie is not a game changer, he just flows along which what ever is happening on the day. Zac Bailey is a clutch player, you can rely on him in the big moments, McLuggage is a game changer but if your live was in his hand kicking for goal well your dead. Charlie, well as great as he can be, when the moment comes he is just not there.

 

[Elixuh]

Show proof of this

Yeah I really want to see this now.

 

[martinson]

I think with Charlie its about moments.

If he has a shot for goal in a 'moment' where is might swing momentum, a 'moment' that will make a difference his is shocking.

If the team is going well, he is getting good supply he can be spectacular and the crowd love him and we all sing along.

Charlie is not a game changer, he just flows along which what ever is happening on the day. Zac Bailey is a clutch player, you can rely on him in the big moments, McLuggage is a game changer but if your live was in his hand kicking for goal well your dead. Charlie, well as great as he can be, when the moment comes he is just not there.

He's not the game changer and never has been tbh but he did put us in front in a GF with 3 minutes on the clock.

 

[martinson]

Does anyone think Hawthorn is any good ?

I look across their team and on paper they don't look very threatening.

But we've overrated our own players for some time. It's only natural that you do.

We've got 5 or 6 whom we had much higher hopes for than what they're producing and unfortunately they're underperforming at the same time.

 

[FLVanLandingham]

Is our current form and ladder position not enough of a reality check? it seems not for them

unless we plop rayner in the f50 and tell him you are a forward, or give him 80% midfield time.. its useless analyzing his game. he is lost floating around not getting all too much effect on the game. either he is down on form this year, or plateaued. either way his role in our current mix isn't producing the results and we need to address it. or adress the mix we go with (I feel with our injuries and who be brought in we attempted that)

anyway, it wasn't rayner who lost us the game. he wasn't the single one allowing them to stream through our midfield comfortably, or missing so many goals.

in the past our mid effort games can be glossed over with some individual acts of brilliance, but our base level is so down this year.... against good teams (and our bunnies who we fall apart against) our individuals won't get us over the line.


Morris is looking good, Neale worked into the game and in the third was immense. Gunston was working hard on Andrew but he did well. Those goals to gunston hurt though (seemingly always from a free run through the middle so no pressure). Chol did well on Payne, which was annoying, and Lester had an almost game.

we got some iffy frees here and there, and I am incredibly salty.. but the umpiring especially early on set the mood for my watching

 

[Denno]

Thought Answerth was good on Hardwick.

Yep - agree. Was worried when McKenna lined up on him, but Answerth tried hard all day and took him out of the game when switched onto him. Also managed to cut off some of their forays forward by leaving his man and making a contest.

 

[Elixuh]

It hurts because there is barely anyone in the VFL we can blame fages for not playing. Maybe brain.

 

[western royboy]

Multiple problems

Players are essentially one way runners - we’re great when we are on top but listless when it turns.

Injuries have hurt us but that is no excuse - we won by 20 goals last week

Our match day coaching is one dimensional - it has been like this for some time - it’s not going to change

Our “window” has closed - our key players are aged - we don’t have a lot coming thru relative to what we need to replace. It was good while it lasted but we need to pivot to the future now rather than get caught up in hoping to merely reload - we are way behind in numerous areas and our fall has been rapid and largely unpredicted.

 

[martinson]

Is our current form and ladder position not enough of a reality check? it seems not for them

unless we plop rayner in the f50 and tell him you are a forward, or give him 80% midfield time.. its useless analyzing his game. he is lost floating around not getting all too much effect on the game. either he is down on form this year, or plateaued. either way his role in our current mix isn't producing the results and we need to address it. or adress the mix we go with (I feel with our injuries and who be brought in we attempted that)

anyway, it wasn't rayner who lost us the game. he wasn't the single one allowing them to stream through our midfield comfortably, or missing so many goals.

in the past our mid effort games can be glossed over with some individual acts of brilliance, but our base level is so down this year.... against good teams (and our bunnies who we fall apart against) our individuals won't get us over the line.


Morris is looking good, Neale worked into the game and in the third was immense. Gunston was working hard on Andrew but he did well. Those goals to gunston hurt though (seemingly always from a free run through the middle so no pressure). Chol did well on Payne, which was annoying, and Lester had an almost game.

we got some iffy frees here and there, and I am incredibly salty.. but the umpiring especially early on set the mood for my watching

You don't seem the salty type FV.

Always positive and of good demeanor.

If you're salty I know we've got problems.

 

[martinson]

Multiple problems

Players are essentially one way runners - we’re great when we are on top but listless when it turns.

Injuries have hurt us but that is no excuse - we won by 20 goals last week

Our match day coaching is one dimensional - it has been like this for some time - it’s not going to change

Our “window” has closed - our key players are aged - we don’t have a lot coming thru relative to what we need to replace. It was good while it lasted but we need to pivot to the future now rather than get caught up in hoping to merely reload - we are way behind in numerous areas and our fall has been rapid and largely unpredicted.

I agree with this. We're just not up to speed in effort or capacity any more.

As long as we realise this we might be able to pivot as you say and stay in the hunt.

 

[jumbojet]

Get on the Flight Center website ASAP good deals on September holidays to be had. Specials on the USA

 

[mpal6]

Does anyone think Hawthorn is any good ?

I look across their team and on paper they don't look very threatening.

But we've overrated our own players for some time. It's only natural that you do.

We've got 5 or 6 whom we had much higher hopes for than what they're producing and unfortunately they're underperforming at the same time.

When we made an effort to pressure them, they looked uncertain. Hawks were beatable but we needed to bring more than just momentary brilliance. We needed run and we dropped one and made the other sub. That's a bad start already.

 

[Denno]

If we let Cam have a block in the VFL to play as close to a full time mid as his tank allows could it help his season at this stage?

I've always been a Rayner defender, but after seeing today, I've come around to the thinking above.

Whilst you can never have too much midfield depth, if Berry continues his form in the middle, we add the Ashcrofts, and we possibly see Fletcher in there, Rayner may well be surplus (and it pains me to say it).

Quite simply, he might be worth more to someone else, than he is to us.

 

[cotter101]

Show proof of this

How far does Kayo go back?

 

[Denno]

doubt it, there is such a gap between VFL and AFL, it is not a fitness issue, as according to many posters, Cam was looking really fit during the preseason. Asking Cam to play large minutes in the midfield and expect strong two way running is like asking Payne to play on the wing for 4 Q's

There's pre-season fitness, and then there's in game effort. It's more than just fitness - he'd hopefully learn the balance between forward and defensive running (ie, running patterns), it would hopefully give him some confidence, and hopefully be a bit of a circuit breaker.

 

[braddsey]

Morris showed composure in the contest on a few occasions today. You can't teach that so to see a potential KPF with that attribute at his age we need to keep persevering with him.

With Hipwood back Rayner has to make way for him.

I'm happy to take bets now if anyone thinks that's any hope of happening.

Brandon Ryan will be making way for Hipwood. Ryan was brought in for insurance. He got lucky with his goal today, but otherwise showed nothing to suggest giving him a 3-year contract was a sensible option.

I don’t enjoy the Rayner pile on, but seeing him live today he almost looks like he can’t read the flight of the ball. Multiple times the ball floated in his direction on the forward flank and he couldn’t find a way to make a contest (let alone take a mark).

Unfortunately the team went back to their forward entry stile of kicking to a pack. We’ve hardly had a player take a pack mark all season. The games we’ve played better we’ve passed it around, lowered the eyes and found players in good positions. Maybe it’s Hawthorn’s defence, but we didn’t seem able to execute that kick-mark game. Our kicking was poor today.

At this stage I would prefer we miss the finals, get away and have a full pre-season and re-load for 2025. We wouldn’t be the first team in recent history to have a down season before coming back winners the year after.

I hope we persist with Morris for the remainder of the season (unless he totally flatlines at some point). He is a natural forward and someone we should get games into, as we did with our current crop of “stars” when they were young.

 

[martinson]

There's no doubt our coaching group have been caught offguard.

You only had to look at the comments when we lost our first 3 , we were playing well , beaten by good teams ,yadda yadda.

I think we inked in a Top 4 spot pre season and they're still thinking we should be doing it.

Well probably not now.

 

[martinson]

Brandon Ryan will be making way for Hipwood. Ryan was brought in for insurance. He got lucky with his goal today, but otherwise showed nothing to suggest giving him a 3-year contract was a sensible option.

I don’t enjoy the Rayner pile on, but seeing him live today he almost looks like he can’t read the flight of the ball. Multiple times the ball floated in his direction on the forward flank and he couldn’t find a way to make a contest (let alone take a mark).

Unfortunately the team went back to their forward entry stile of kicking to a pack. We’ve hardly had a player take a pack mark all season. The games we’ve played better we’ve passed it around, lowered the eyes and found players in good positions. Maybe it’s Hawthorn’s defence, but we didn’t seem able to execute that kick-mark game. Our kicking was poor today.

At this stage I would prefer we miss the finals, get away and have a full pre-season and re-load for 2025. We wouldn’t be the first team in recent history to have a down season before coming back winners the year after.

I was presuming Ryan gets dropped anyway.

Adding Rayner.

 

[braddsey]

IMO we need to look at our 24-28 year old players who are worth $$$$ in the market for draft pick/s or young talent.
With the Tassie team sucking in picks in a few years, we need to act soon.
Cam, Hugh and Zac are all candidates. I respect what they given the club but I fear they have all plateaued.
Yes, others had bad games but this season is over in my eyes.

I would keep Hugh. He had a down game and has always had troubles with consistency in front of goal, but he is quality.
Rayner and/or Bailey could be players who want a different environment at the end of season and have some trade value. I think Rayner is a great guy, but he’s lost in our structure it seems.

 

[Berrygood]

If some one was to ask how I was feeling after that, I'd have to say, embarrassed.

Not good enough. Letting them waltz thru the front of a clearance, on-going problem now. We can't spread and run, can't chase. We've really got the yips infront of goal. Some players are really trying, some are half-arsed, some look lost at times. The coach is stale, 8yrs of 'learning from failures' must get tiring for the players. I know I'm sick of hearing it.

My head hurts evaluating what's going on and trying to envisage how to improve. Would rather talk about anything else right now.

Anyone, been fishing lately?

 

[Section 5]

At present we have pick 7 in the MSD.
However, the Crows have made up 11% so far and there is 1 quarter and about 10 minutes to go v WCE.
At present they are 0.5% behind us.
We may as well let them pass us and we get pick 6.