Autopsy Round 11: Hawks audition for top 4 draft pick, v Freo

[eldorado]

Facebook is not a news source.

So Dan Andrews hasn't been arrested and replaced by a global socialist satanist paedophile clone?

God, I just don't know what to believe anymore...

 

[Freshmeat]

tom mitchell seems to be playing like an out of form daniel cross. concerning and don’t think it’s an effort thing either.

He’s coming back from a serious injury & during a time no one could’ve predicted. He gets a “ get out of jail free card” for this “season”. ( if you can call it that).

 

[savagelunchbox]

Who else do we play?

He is definately improving, and far from our worst

What has he improved?
Also, what other team would he get a game for currently?

You don't necessarily need to do a like-for-like change. I would be all for moving the inside mids elsewhere, because they aren't firing. Trying some other stoppage options who come in to replace HM and one of Worpel, JOM and Mitchell (in that order) playing HM's outside no-position position.

 

[Zack]

Well I put myself to bed last night after Clarko started his press conference with... Darcy was by far the best man on ground by a long way in the first.
And we don't as a club put the kids to the wolves but we will look into if that's what we now need to do now.

It was perhaps his best coaches press conference since we were kings. Certainly this year after a loss.

Look I'm a bit delusional at the best of times, perhaps because I've been lucky with all the premierships we've won over my lifetime. And I do honestly delude myself each year especially with our start this year and Clarko's history to say perhaps we ain't cooked perhaps this wizard of a coach could steal a premiership from these other 17 clubs... and I do think the fact I believe he could says I probably over rate Clarko certainly these days but I do believe in him, 2005 I never left a game before every player and coach left the field. That was because for the first time since the mid 90's I thought someone at least had a plan to help us long term, it was a long and cold year especially at Docklands with the sewerage issue they had, I'm more proud I supported them then than in any premiership year. I'm wrapped I was there too, but when you team is poo, that is when they really need you.

We are at the crossroads, but I think Clarko for the first time realises we are at the crossroads and that he may have to take a step back for a year to juggernaut the year after. And that's a good thing for our club. I do believe in him if he's only got two years to go that is a slight worry I'd rather he had an option of three meeting basic things so he doesn't try to get there too fast.

 

[Freshmeat]

Surely Scully and Ceglar get dropped

Scully May be looking at a early EXIT from the club. I’ve never seen a footballer so afraid to break a nail like him.

 

[Freshmeat]

Scully is the weakest player to ever play afl..

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I wish I could “like” this multiple times.

 

[Brishawk]

That's not people's issue.

The issue is that while he's playing okay, since his debut, there hasn't been much improvement and there hasn't been any signs that there's much more improvement in him.

So while we're not contending and needing to be looking into the future towards our next flag tilt, why play someone who doesn't look to have a high ceiling?

Because he is better than what else we have...and at least the side doesn’t have to carry him

 

[Brishawk]

What has he improved?
Also, what other team would he get a game for currently?

You don't necessarily need to do a like-for-like change. I would be all for moving the inside mids elsewhere, because they aren't firing. Trying some other stoppage options who come in to replace HM and one of Worpel, JOM and Mitchell (in that order) playing HM's outside no-position position.

Yes, let’s play the worst kicks in the side off of the half back flank...It’s bad enough we have Stratton in defence. Let’s not add to the problem.

 

[TallyHawk]

I had to laugh and switch off in the second quarter after seeing Cerra brush off Frawley who again went to ground.

We have wasted a season playing McEvoy and Ceglar in the side. The latter dislikes contact and should never of got a 3 year deal last year.

We desperately need a good tap ruckman.

Out with the old in with the new.


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[savagelunchbox]

Yes, let’s play the worst kicks in the side off of the half back flank...It’s bad enough we have Stratton in defence. Let’s not add to the problem.

It's not like we're going to change the game plan and suddenly have options for the HBF to kick to. If he can kick it to the boundary line, then he fits the profile. Same thing if we played him on the half forward flank. It's not like he'll have leading forwards to kick to. If he can kick it high to the top of the square, then he fits the profile and can follow the coaches instructions.

What's supposed to be working in the middle isn't, so something needs to change. There's no point playing someone who isn't a solution. It's just stalling the development of someone with more scope. And no one is carrying anyone at the moment, that's a piss poor excuse.

 

[Zack]

What's supposed to be working in the middle isn't, so something needs to change. There's no point playing someone who isn't a solution. It's just stalling the development of someone with more scope. And no one is carrying anyone at the moment, that's a piss poor excuse.

It's an interesting option, Reeves is apparently miles off being where he needs to be, but with 16 minute quarters and the season already in the poo bar a miracle.

We could start him in the ruck every quarter he is too tall to lose the ruck, so we get a draw. Anything else is a bonus play him 30-40% game time max over the last what 7 games, it'll either move his development forward exponentially or they'll say he's too soft like Ceglar that's not going to work. (Sorry my facetiousness added the last comment) I'd still keep him b4 Cegs who the Swans weirdly wanted. Cos he's younger and taller... and I'm yet to see him give up a contest through fear b4 the contest happens. (NB: I've hardly seen him except in a few BH games on TV and one at the game) But Ceg's is John 'footsteps' Hendrie soft. (NB: In this era John Hendrie would be bloody tough, he may have been scared but he still stayed on the ground.)

 

[Maybloomer]

Every coach would allow that. It gives you an extra around the ball.

I often wonder if that’s one extra too many. Hawthorn often have extras around the ball and they just handball to a brown and gold jumper because its there, even if the handballer is clear - see Scrimshaw to Shiels’s back. First option is to handball instead of looking up for a better option.

It’s not just the Hawks, it might just save this game. It might be a pipe dream but I’d love this game to open up a lot and have stay-at-home forwards.

 

[theiaofseed]

Reading peoples takes here is more frustrating than watching Hawthorn play

 

[marklar]

I'd still keep him b4 Cegs who the Swans weirdly wanted.

Swans would have turned Cegs into Mumford if they were given the chance. Whatever it is we're doing we gave him 3 years and have no idea about how to use him as-is, or how to convert him into a different style of ruck that he can actually be good at. Max Bailey was the last decent ruck we identified, developed and supported all the way.

It's the same with our tall forwards (Schoe, Timmy, Lewis) we just don't know how to get them to the next level.

 

[Zack]

Swans would have turned Cegs into Mumford if they were given the chance. Whatever it is we're doing we gave him 3 years and have no idea about how to use him as-is, or how to convert him into a different style of ruck that he can actually be good at. Max Bailey was the last decent ruck we identified, developed and supported all the way.

It's the same with our tall forwards (Schoe, Timmy, Lewis) we just don't know how to get them to the next level.

I think Cegs is just soft but if we gave him to them and he man's up then yes we'd have a serious issue with our development. But you make a very good argument with the blokes you named and getting them to the next level. Bailey remember did 3 or 4 knees we didn't exactly develop him we just used him when he was actually able to get on the ground. He did have ability. The rest totally agree.

 

[Yardie]

It doesn't help when you continually trade away your draft picks and guys like Burton for players who are at the back end of their careers or are not as good as you think they are.

You can't blood kids who don't exist. Clarko has been a magnificent coach, probably the greatest of all time...but he and Wright made a mess of this one and it will take years to recover from.

There are 22 players (out of 47) who are 22 and younger on the list who have played 165 games in total or an average 7.5 games each. That includes Morrison and Worpel with 64 between them and 12 players who have not played a game.

If we had taken a tough decision to cut 3-4 older players over the past two years and not taken on older recruits we could have rotated the youth through the team and seen who is capable. It might have resulted in some short term pain but then we would have games into youth and maybe had a couple of higher draft picks as well.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Silver lining or not, I'm not entirely sure, but 9 of our top 10 ball winners last night should all be on the last in 3yrs time.

Mitchell, Scrimshaw, Worpel, Day, O'Meara, Morrison, Wingard, Hardwick, Sicily.

We need to add that group, obviously.



The bad....

Our bottom 10 disposal winners contained almost all of our oldest bodies, with Shiels being in the top 10.

 

[Hawk88]

Don't you think when things are going poorly that we try something unorthodox to try and break it up. No point in plodding along with no real chance of catching up. There are times when only the unorthodox will do.

I agree with you. Was more just commenting on the coaches thoughts and tendencies.

I would much rather play a more attacking game style and lose by more but unfortunately this has never been in Clarko's way of doing things

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[Roger Rogerson]

Was that a tanking message from Jeff tonight? Sure sounded like one. Unnecessary.

 

[seysearles]

Scully is the weakest player to ever play afl..

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To be fair those running link up players like that very rarely can take a hit. I remember Hill looking equally as weak in the contest and wondering why he couldn't just put his body on the line. I guess they weigh a lot less than the other guys and the hits shake the shit out of them. I would prefer that we found a way to play them where we minimise the amount of times they need to get in and under. I would like Scully's instructions to be to just sprint continually up and down the park and always hang loose at the packs waiting for the ball to come out or for the opposition to break. Asking him try to win the ball is really just pointless.

 

[William Wonka]

Whilst everyone dissects the ins and outs, just gonna throw this out there and play devils advocate.

It’s clear, and I’ve heard whispers, that our playing group is really struggling with the hub situation. And it makes sense when you think about the age profile of the list. Sitting around in a hotel, training once and sitting by the pool for 9 days is not fertile ground for a good headspace, and I think it really shows.

That all been said, I just want the draft picks now, so now’s the time to draw a line under the shamozzle that this year is

Oh what a difference a week makes!
All this year shows is hublife sucks.

Our good is very good our bad is woeful but were just going through the motions at the moment, not overfussed if we win or lose in this cluster**** of a season- its 17 glorified practice matches leading up to a GF against 30k at the Gabba and a flag with an asterisk.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I agree with you. Was more just commenting on the coaches thoughts and tendencies.

I would much rather play a more attacking game style and lose by more but unfortunately this has never been in Clarko's way of doing things

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Yeah. I know this wasn't AFL level, but I coached basketball at a good level for over 10 years with a fair level of success. The one thing I learned very quickly was some nights all the structural planning and match ups simply were not working, for one reason or another. You are faced with the prospect of just accepting it isn't your night, or you could change things, sometimes doing bizarre things, almost to the point of being ridiculous.

Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but I never allowed a failing game plan to just roll along. It worries me these days that coaches, even successful ones are so locked into the status quo, so afraid of stepping outside the square, that they refuse to just throw those game plans in the bin and do something different. Just keep taking players off after they've scored a goal guys, that's why you're paid the big bucks

I know it was a long time ago now, but I was at Football Park one night when Ken Judge was coaching. We were down at 3/4 time and kicking into a breeze in the final term. Rather than attempt to win the game, he decided he'd rather lose by 4 goals than 10, and stacked the defence. I was tearing my hair out doing the John Kennedy, "DO Something", but he did nothing. Rightly or wrongly, if you're not trying to win, there's no point in being out there.

 

[burner1]

Was that a tanking message from Jeff tonight? Sure sounded like one. Unnecessary.

Was a bit too blatant. Afl will be watching closely as would love to sink the boots in (despite other clubs eg Sydney clearly tanking)

 

[hawkheart]

Zero mention anywhere of Scully’s running with the flight of the ball grab. Gutsy. Posters’ personal scapegoating of Tom as an outlet for their frustrations is pretty average.

 

[Pessimistic]

Was a bit too blatant. Afl will be watching closely as would love to sink the boots in (despite other clubs eg Sydney clearly tanking)

Its the AFL threatening to cut list sizes. Getting a good look at kids already on the books is legitimate reason. also we have had 1 genuine home game, 8 games against clubs at their own grounds and 8 neutral.