Autopsy Round 11: Hawks audition for top 4 draft pick, v Freo

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Yeah. I know this wasn't AFL level, but I coached basketball at a good level for over 10 years with a fair level of success. The one thing I learned very quickly was some nights all the structural planning and match ups simply were not working, for one reason or another. You are faced with the prospect of just accepting it isn't your night, or you could change things, sometimes doing bizarre things, almost to the point of being ridiculous.

Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but I never allowed a failing game plan to just roll along. It worries me these days that coaches, even successful ones are so locked into the status quo, so afraid of stepping outside the square, that they refuse to just throw those game plans in the bin and do something different. Just keep taking players off after they've scored a goal guys, that's why you're paid the big bucks

I know it was a long time ago now, but I was at Football Park one night when Ken Judge was coaching. We were down at 3/4 time and kicking into a breeze in the final term. Rather than attempt to win the game, he decided he'd rather lose by 4 goals than 10, and stacked the defence. I was tearing my hair out doing the John Kennedy, "DO Something", but he did nothing. Rightly or wrongly, if you're not trying to win, there's no point in being out there.

Remember that game well, it was one game I made the trip over the boarder for and wished I didn't, for that reason.

I played a game once for my local club that the coach Trevor Keogh went into the game with a harm minimisation mindset, we were playing Vermont in Div one when they were a juggernaut of a team, my team had been pushed from Div two into Div one because other had declined to do so after earning the right. Anyway after playing a flood of all floods the players were filthy about the tactics. What Keogh had failed to tell the boys is that he didn't want to get flogged because we had a winnable game the following week and he didn't want us going into the game low on confidence (we were about 0-10 for the season at the time) ended up 0-16 and relegated after that.

My take out is that players are competitive beast, they like winning and would rather die standing than live on their knees.

 

[PenAndPaper]

No, I am surprised a 5 foot 10, 75kg endurance athlete with average disposal was chosen as pick number 1 in the draft and paid a million dollars a season.

Tom is what he is and at his peak was a decent enough footballer but at no time has he ever shown the traits and abilities to justify a number 1 pick status (probably not even top 20).

Lucky we didn't spend pick 1 or even 20 on him then...

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

For anyone potting Morrison, he is not the problem. Has actually been reasonable recently, and shouldn't have the blowtorch on him.

No, he's not the problem but he is symbolic of the state of our list at the moment.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Was that a tanking message from Jeff tonight? Sure sounded like one. Unnecessary.

Jeff should STFU. Seriously. His seemingly endless messaging is not helping.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Zero mention anywhere of Scully’s running with the flight of the ball grab. Gutsy. Posters’ personal scapegoating of Tom as an outlet for their frustrations is pretty average.

I'm sorry, it got a bit lost amongst all of his fumbling, chopped up kicks and missed tackles.

I do remember it though. It was good. But this is not about courage. No AFL footballer is soft. It's about what he does or doesn't add to our team.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Lucky we didn't spend pick 1 or even 20 on him then...

I am not that upset that we got him considering he cost the club bugger all.

It was more a general query I have had watching him play over the years in regards to what traits the recruiters saw in him to justify a number 1 pick given his obvious physical limitations.

It would be like the NBA number 1 pick going to a 5 foot 10 point guard with limited skills just on the basis off "but he is a really good middle distance runner".

 

[checkraiseulite]

I'm sorry, it got a bit lost amongst all of his fumbling, chopped up kicks and missed tackles.

I do remember it though. It was good. But this is not about courage. No AFL footballer is soft. It's about what he does or doesn't add to our team.

he’s a peripheral player who cost us nothing.

our problems are much deeper than him.

 

[Lickmesocks]

We were ordinary from the coach’s box to the playing group.

Why when we have no target forward and can’t kick a goal does it take 3qtrs to move Sicily who is about only player in the side that can actually mark a ball.

Why when Impey was catching a cold as a small forward did we leave him there until late 3rd qtr? Surely you get him to HB and let him get some touches.

Why did it take so long to leave Ceglar in the ruck? Blind Freddy could tell Cegs was off in lala land 2 minutes into the game and Clarko even mentioned his opponent in his after game presser.

Why after 10 days off did our midfield have the energy of a group that had played the previous day .

We were really poor from the coach down to the playing group and I don’t care what spin Jeff wants to add to it.

 

[LMGjr]

We were ordinary from the coach’s box to the playing group.

Why when we have no target forward and can’t kick a goal does it take 3qtrs to move Sicily who is about only player in the side that can actually mark a ball.

Why when Impey was catching a cold as a small forward did we leave him there until late 3rd qtr? Surely you get him to HB and let him get some touches.

Why did it take so long to leave Ceglar in the ruck? Blind Freddy could tell Cegs was off in lala land 2 minutes into the game and Clarko even mentioned his opponent in his after game presser.

Why after 10 days off did our midfield have the energy of a group that had played the previous day .

We were really poor from the coach down to the playing group and I don’t care what spin Jeff wants to add to it.

Are there ego problems within the playing group?

Can't play team if your ego gets in the road. Coaches too.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

he’s a peripheral player who cost us nothing.

our problems are much deeper than him.

Yes, let's overlook all of these small problems as though they don't exist.

Scully may have cost us nothing but whilst he is on the payroll on decent coin, taking a spot on the field and stinking it up, yes it is a problem.

He is not the player he was and should not be in the team.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I am not that upset that we got him considering he cost the club bugger all.

It was more a general query I have had watching him play over the years in regards to what traits the recruiters saw in him to justify a number 1 pick given his obvious physical limitations.

It would be like the NBA number 1 pick going to a 5 foot 10 point guard with limited skills just on the basis off "but he is a really good middle distance runner".

Tom Scully (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Metro) – Draft Profile

Height: 182cm Weight: 77kg Preferred Foot: Left/Dual Sided Position: Midfield/HFF/ Wing Potential: 8.5-9/10 Style li...

afldraftinfo.blogspot.com

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Tom Scully (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Metro) – Draft Profile

Height: 182cm Weight: 77kg Preferred Foot: Left/Dual Sided Position: Midfield/HFF/ Wing Potential: 8.5-9/10 Style li...

afldraftinfo.blogspot.com

Well hindsight is always 20/20 but some of those predictions about him being a ferocious tackler, high possession winner and excellent decision maker by hand were way off the mark. The comparison to Ben Cousions was also a tad optimistic!

To me this is an excellent example of the pitfalls of drafting 18 year olds, some develop at a quicker rate and hit their ceiling at 17/18 whereas many truelly elite players only begin to show their potential around 20/21.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Yes, let's overlook all of these small problems as though they don't exist.

Scully may have cost us nothing but whilst he is on the payroll on decent coin, taking a spot on the field and stinking it up, yes it is a problem.

He is not the player he was and should not be in the team.

I suspect we will get a look at two brand new wingers this week with both Smith and Scully out.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Why when we have no target forward and can’t kick a goal does it take 3qtrs to move Sicily who is about only player in the side that can actually mark a ball.

Because it's insanity to move our best defender, who is probably leading B+F in that position, when we are getting slammed on the counter with quick inside 50s, again and again. We're 8 goals down without Sicily back there.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Howe, Mcguiness and Patton should be the in's this week. Smith, Shiels and Cegler the outs. We need more midfield depth desperately and it needs to start this week. Move Day to the wing and start Impey at half back with Scrimshaw on the other side. Already the balance looks better. Throw Chad in there in patches to mix things up. We need to start making the opposition think about what we are doing. Right now every club is on autopilot because we don't try anything different.

 

[Mercy Seat]

No, he's not the problem but he is symbolic of the state of our list at the moment.

He played almost every game the year we finished top 4 after home and away. He's good, you can admit it. There are worse players that played in the 3pete era.

There are FAR bigger problems with the list.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

He played almost every game the year we finished top 4 after home and away. He's good, you can admit it. There are worse players that played in the 3pete era.

There are FAR bigger problems with the list.

If he was that good why has he been in and out of the side over the past 18 months?

He wouldn’t get a regular game in a premiership standard team. And I stand by that. He wouldn’t have got near our 3peat team. Who would he have replaced? Spangher was arguably our 22nd player and he was much more valuable to our structure.

We had a dual-premiership winning Crimmins Medalist who couldn’t get into 2014 premiership team.

 

[Mercy Seat]

If he was that good why has he been in and out of the side over the past 18 months?

He wouldn’t get a regular game in a premiership standard team. And I stand by that. He wouldn’t have got near our 3peat team. Who would he have replaced? Spangher was arguably our 22nd player and he was much more valuable to our structure.

We had a dual-premiership winning Crimmins Medalist who couldn’t get into 2014 premiership team.

Because he’s 21 years of age mate. Worps is our first player in 10 years at that age to play regular first team footy. Even Brad Hill was in and out his first few seasons.

Give him a season or two, i reckon we’d have him over Spangler, Duryea, Simpkin.

I don’t know why the hill your committed to dying on is a kid with potential who’s done what everyone is crying out for and that is cracking the seniors.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Because he’s 21 years of age mate. Worps is our first player in 10 years at that age to play regular first team footy. Even Brad Hill was in and out his first few seasons.

Give him a season or two, i reckon we’d have him over Spangler, Duryea, Simpkin.

I don’t know why the hill your committed to dying on is a kid with potential who’s done what everyone is crying out for and that is cracking the seniors.

Ease up champ. All I said was Morrison is symptomatic of the state of our list.

He’s not the problem and I never said he was. But if you think he would have made any of our flag teams then there really is little point in discussing this with you. Brad Sewell couldn’t even make our 2014 team. Brad Sewell. And Harry Morrison is not fit to lace that guy’s boots.

He’s a speculative prospect at best. Personally I doubt he makes it to 100 games. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Because it's insanity to move our best defender, who is probably leading B+F in that position, when we are getting slammed on the counter with quick inside 50s, again and again. We're 8 goals down without Sicily back there.

I couldn’t disagree more with this post. I thought he was lazy and taking the pi55 with some of his positioning and then some of his kicking out of the backline against the Dockers.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Ease up champ. All I said was Morrison is symptomatic of the state of our list.

He’s not the problem and I never said he was. But if you think he would have made any of our flag teams then there really is little point in discussing this with you. Brad Sewell couldn’t even make our 2014 team. Brad Sewell. And Harry Morrison is not fit to lace that guy’s boots.

He’s a speculative prospect at best. Personally I doubt he makes it to 100 games. I hope I am wrong.

The point I’m trying to make is that he potentially could. You don’t give a kid the number 1 jersey if you don’t think they’re in your next flag team.

I see him a good utility who’s doing exactly what’s asked of him. He’s not a star but, but far from our biggest problem, and is the type of player who I think could play 150 games. Let’s leave it there.

 

[Mercy Seat]

I couldn’t disagree more with this post. I thought he was lazy and taking the pi55 with some of his positioning and then some of his kicking out of the backline against the Dockers.

He didn’t play his greatest game but he’s still by far our best player back there. No coach is going to pull him out midway through the second quarter when the ball is having entries the way it is. It’s easy to say in hindsight that he should have moved forward earlier in the game, but it’s just not gonna happen when they are moving the ball the way they were.

The reality is we need two Sicilys.....

 

[Lickmesocks]

He didn’t play his greatest game but he’s still by far our best player back there. No coach is going to pull him out midway through the second quarter when the ball is having entries the way it is. It’s easy to say in hindsight that he should have moved forward earlier in the game, but it’s just not gonna happen when they are moving the ball the way they were.

The reality is we need two Sicilys.....

you are missing my point.

Why do we always need to play a loose man in the back 50.... Are we still believing in the Josh Gibson role of 7 years back?

How about we be adaptable with our structure and each be accountable to a man from time to time when we are struggling.

Are we not fit enough to each take a player for a while?

I watched our defenders leave their forwards lead up to the wings and not even going with them. Our side is so set back on its heels trying to save the damn game it’s horrible and Sicily running across and spoiling the ball as a loose man would be handy if we are kicking 12 goals a game but we simply are not .

frawley frost Stratton should be experienced enough to take a forward eac

When you are being sliced and diced and every time you go forward your main targets are Impey and O’Brien then why wouldn’t you change things up earlier.

Does Sicily play forward every game... NO but surely a coaching group watching that game could have tried to change up things before 3qtr time.

Clarko was asleep at the wheel. To leave Impey as a small forward for 3 qtrs with 1 touch when we needed some run and overlap was absolutely mind boggling .

 

[Todman]

I know it was a long time ago now, but I was at Football Park one night when Ken Judge was coaching. We were down at 3/4 time and kicking into a breeze in the final term. Rather than attempt to win the game, he decided he'd rather lose by 4 goals than 10, and stacked the defence. I was tearing my hair out doing the John Kennedy, "DO Something", but he did nothing. Rightly or wrongly, if you're not trying to win, there's no point in being out there.

You summed up Ken Judges' coaching perfectly.

 

[jameses]

If Jeka plays, he will get destroyed. And this place will be even more miserable.

Yes, TOB isn’t an elite player. But he is the best we have in that position. TOB being omitted will make our side worse.