Autopsy Round 13... cats 16.4 def Dogs 5.13

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hatescaptcha said:
Really expected Honeychurch to come out firing this week to give him every chance to cement his spot in the side.

But he just had no vigour tonight along with the rest of the team, however when you're on the fringe and it took you half a season to get into the team, you'd expect a little more desperation than what he showed tonight.
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What is Honeychurchs role in team? btw.
 
We were extremely disappointing as a unit tonight. We didn't use the ball well at all, both in our field kicking and at goal. This was in part due to the immense pressure from the other side, but also because of our tendency to panic or not pick the right option. Geelong used the ball better, and converted well. They also worked harder around the ground, and basically overwhelmed us. That was a finals like performance and we didn't cope with it.

There are not many positives. But here is a few:
  • Macrae led from the front, worked tirelessly and never stopped.
  • Suckling got involved in a lot of passages and was one of the few who used the ball well - I love it when he winds up the big left foot from just outside F50.
  • Williams put in another impressive performance - he is just so composed with the ball (even in heavy traffic) and often picks the right option. I think he should remain in the team after the return of JJ and Wood.
  • Where is the love for Jong? Ok, so he probably wasn't in our best players, but he was not far off. This was his best performance of the year: he kicked a goal, had 20 disposals (8 kicks, 12 handballs), took 7 marks (some contested) and made 6 tackles. He applied a lot of pressure. And he didn't turn over the ball like others did. Irrespective of views on past performance or future prospects, it was a very solid/good individual performance by Jong in a team where most were far from their best. The selection was clearly justified given his VFL performance and the available players. I suspect a few on here will sheepish and a bit embarrassed by the way they carried on in the changes thread this week. Well done, Jongy - let's hope we see more of that.
Obviously the players need to have a good break, reset and get ready for a big back half of the season. The quicker we get a fit Stevens, JJ, McLean, Wood and Dalhaus back, the better.
 
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Good thing about playing these teams is it shows who has the class to stand up and who is going to let you down in a final. Big tick for Williams- he put a lot of the senior to shame, Jong showed a bit, Adams was good Redpath was totally outclassed by good defenders and Honeychurch was totally ineffectual.
 

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I've been reading through a lot of this thread. And I know it's natural to see the absolute worst in losses like these but that score line did no justice to the game at all. I was at the game and it felt like we were 50 pts down in the 3rd qtr. you were KILLING us in general play, your fwd setup just wasn't working for you tonight and even then if you nailed half those shots you'd be in the match. Not to mention the players you have missing. Still a huge chance to contend this year and if not, then the next 5 years.
 
I find it alarming that we have little to no efective ball users i our middle. They cant burst packs apart from stringer but he aint a mid! This is costly and I dont understand how no one else s talks about this as a major flaw of ours. It's an obvious reason why we never get any decent entries inside 50! Too many players are getting in tight for the handball recieve as opposed to creating space
 
Cursed_Cat said:
I hear what you're saying, but slightly older Cats fans can relate only too well - we climbed that same mountain 4 times between '89-'95 only to get shot down in flames. Heartbreaking. I personally never thought I'd see a Cats premiership in my lifetime.
The Bulldogs are in it up to their necks this year; you'll get a few back from injury and be right amongst in come September - grab your chances and the drought could be all over.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to labour the point, but we're yet to even get to a Grand Final, instead, we've lost eight prelims in 30 years. Like a animal handler dangling a piece of meat on a string which is just out of reach.

However, we're in the eight and I can only hope that was our worst last night because it was putrid.

The club and long suffering supporters deserves so much more than what was dished up against your mob, so I want us breathing fire for the rest of 2016 and beyond. This has to be our turning point, our line in the sand.
 
Wetdog said:
We were extremely disappointing as a unit tonight. We didn't use the ball well at all, both in our field kicking and at goal. This was in part due to the immense pressure from the other side, but also because of our tendency to panic or not pick the right option. Geelong used the ball better, and converted well. They also worked harder around the ground, and basically overwhelmed us. That was a finals like performance and we didn't cope with it.

There are not many positives. But here is a few:
  • Macrae led from the front, worked tirelessly and never stopped.
  • Suckling got involved in a lot of passages and was one of the few who used the ball well - I love it when he winds up the big left foot from just outside F50.
  • Williams put in another impressive performance - he is just so composed with the ball (even in heavy traffic) and often picks the right option. I think he should remain in the team after the return of JJ and Wood.
  • Where is the love for Jong? Ok, so he probably wasn't in our best players, but he was not far off. This was his best performance of the year: he kicked a goal, had 20 disposals (8 kicks, 12 handballs), took 7 marks (some contested) and made 6 tackles. He applied a lot of pressure. And he didn't turn over the ball like others did. Irrespective of views on past performance or future prospects, it was a very solid/good individual performance by Jong in a team where most were far from their best. The selection was clearly justified given his VFL performance and the available players. I suspect a few on here will sheepish and a bit embarrassed by the way they carried on in the changes thread this week. Well done, Jongy - let's hope we see more of that.
Obviously the players need to have a good break, reset and get ready for a big back half of the season. The quicker we get a fit Stevens, JJ, Wood and Dalhaus back, the better.
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Add McLean and Boyd to that list. Our forward line was dysfunctional tonight.
 
God Mode said:
I've been reading through a lot of this thread. And I know it's natural to see the absolute worst in losses like these but that score line did no justice to the game at all. I was at the game and it felt like we were 50 pts down in the 3rd qtr. you were KILLING us in general play, your fwd setup just wasn't working for you tonight and even then if you nailed half those shots you'd be in the match. Not to mention the players you have missing. Still a huge chance to contend this year and if not, then the next 5 years.
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The differences was though how the two clubs manipulated time and space and made decisions with using the ball.

You're right in saying that we dominated general play, don't want to sound patronising, but we know that - the fact that we actually won the inside 50 count is evidence of that.

What we're more upset about is that a lot of our weaknesses - inefficiencies moving the ball forward, especially inside 50, and conceding scores directly after turning the ball over and from stoppages (ie when our defence isn't set up - not that most teams are good at defending that anyway, but we do it worse than the league average) - were exposed to the absolute nth degree in this game.

Sitting up at the front of level 3 where you get a whole overview of how both teams structure at the stoppages, around the ball, and manipulate the space of the opposite sides of the ground and use that space to get the ball moving forward shows the teams that are light years apart. Your overlap run from half-back using loose men in defence and Motlop getting out in space across as a high-half forward (21 kicks) was just much better than anything we could do, whilst we moved the ball by handballing to blokes in worse pressure and thumping the ball forward to outnumbered small men in attack.

Part of it could be simply the players we have available - the reason we're so good at the stoppages, contested ball and general play and generating numbers of inside 50 without efficient ball use is because of the types of players that we have injured. Wallis, Libba and Bont have all played every game this year and are part of the reason why we dominate the ball, whilst some of our best defenders who structure behind the ball (Wood, Johannisen) are injured as well as some of our best outside ball users (Johannisen, Stevens, even Nathan Hrovat is a fringe player but statistically the best kick of the ball moving the ball inside 50 over the last two years for us has been injured for all but 2 weeks for us this year).
 
Wetdog said:
We were extremely disappointing as a unit tonight. We didn't use the ball well at all, both in our field kicking and at goal. This was in part due to the immense pressure from the other side, but also because of our tendency to panic or not pick the right option. Geelong used the ball better, and converted well. They also worked harder around the ground, and basically overwhelmed us. That was a finals like performance and we didn't cope with it.

There are not many positives. But here is a few:
  • Macrae led from the front, worked tirelessly and never stopped.
  • Suckling got involved in a lot of passages and was one of the few who used the ball well - I love it when he winds up the big left foot from just outside F50.
  • Williams put in another impressive performance - he is just so composed with the ball (even in heavy traffic) and often picks the right option. I think he should remain in the team after the return of JJ and Wood.
  • Where is the love for Jong? Ok, so he probably wasn't in our best players, but he was not far off. This was his best performance of the year: he kicked a goal, had 20 disposals (8 kicks, 12 handballs), took 7 marks (some contested) and made 6 tackles. He applied a lot of pressure. And he didn't turn over the ball like others did. Irrespective of views on past performance or future prospects, it was a very solid/good individual performance by Jong in a team where most were far from their best. The selection was clearly justified given his VFL performance and the available players. I suspect a few on here will sheepish and a bit embarrassed by the way they carried on in the changes thread this week. Well done, Jongy - let's hope we see more of that.
Obviously the players need to have a good break, reset and get ready for a big back half of the season. The quicker we get a fit Stevens, JJ, McLean, Wood and Dalhaus back, the better.
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Thought Jongy was okay tonight. Definitely not our worst.
 
Mattdougie said:
No and you will never get it

He wasn't good tonight and your rattling out of stats proves how you watch football. No idea about the responsibilities of a mid when given his role.

Watch the amount of times he got sucked to the ball when he had no chance of getting it and allowed the cats out the back, watch the amount of times he went to ground and his man stayed on his feet and got away.

Try and really watch footy not just look at it.

And then when and if you can do that then come have a chat to me about footy and how good or bad a player is and I might agree with you but until then the only thing I admit is he wasn't our worst player but he wasn't good.
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Mate. My only criticism of him was that he seemed, at times, unwilling to use his pace given that he's pretty much the fasted bloke in our team. Some of his decision making was deliberatly simple as if he didn't want to stuff up but also losing the opprtuntiy to break the game open with the seams.

But what else is there to criticise him? He took two or three great contested marks in a team that couldn't do that all game, kicked on of our only 5 goals for the game, and I honestly cannot recall a clanger or disposal stuff up that he's known for, and about 15 other players in the game did. After playing him forward and on the wing, we stuck him in the guts in that 3rd quarter and he was a large part of the reason we played well that quarter as his second efforts and defensive work was top notch - he laid the 2nd most tackles for us as a team.

Objectively, what can you criticise about his game?
 
threenewpadlocks said:
Dickson was poor even in a bad bunch.

Blokes like Libba, Bontempelli, Morris, Stringer didn't play to the level that they have at times this year, but at the same time they weren't among the worst 5-10 players in the team and weren't part of the structural failings of the team.

Dickson, Redpath, Dunkley, Honeychurch and Biggs were all poor today, among our worst 5-10 players and part of the reason why the structures fell apart.
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Dickson has gone back to his 2014 ways

Short steps to contests, useless one and one, lazy and his dead eye is gone.

He literally Sh!t himself on at least 2 occasions tonight it was embarrassing
 

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Ok, I haven't felt this positive after a loss reasons being


First of all I will say we were abysmal tonight and Geelong were brilliant, but I ain't worried about the result at all, look at our injury list and compare it to Geelong's. Then look at the scoring shots being 18 vs 20, yet one team went at like 27% goalkicking efficiency, the other went at 80%. I haven't seen so many goals kicked from the boundary in one night like that, they just went in from everywhere, Geelong will not hit the scoreboard with that efficiency again for the rest of the season, tonight was a one off and they played arguably at their peak also with Danger, Bartel and Jelwood all being instrumental in their win.

Geelong have also had the biggest charmed run on the injury front all season so far. Not one key player is down and out for them. Not one, they are all kids or depth players outside of their best 22.

Norf have injuries, Hawthorn have injuries, Sydney have injuries, West Coast have injuries, GWS just got a few injuries recently and the Dogs have injuries, even Port have them. Can only say Geelong and Adelaide are looking ok on the injury front currently in regards to key personnel being fit.

Of all the top 8 sides carrying injuries, a majority of the teams will expect players to return after the byes and before September, many of these teams should be close to full strength by August gearing themselves for finals.

Geelong in consecutive weeks have beaten up on teams who came into games undermanned or lost soldiers during the game, but they lost to Collingwood and Carlton only weeks beforehand. So what's the go here, surely the Dogs and Roos will make a better account of themselves when they both play Geelong again later in the season with hopefully close to full strength teams.

So when will this charmed run come to an end for Geelong? When will Geelong cop what other teams around them on the ladder have copped so far this year and have to slug it out through the hard periods themselves? That's when we will see what the real Geelong will be all about.



With us

We know we were smashed in the guts

We know we used the ball poorly

We know we shot ourselves in the foot pushing too many players upfield and had minimal options to kick the ball too when we won it back

We know we kicked poorly at goal

Yet we only had 2 less scoring shots than them and they played at their absolute peak tonight imo



Round 19 we will turn up to the Cattery and beat them, lightning will not strike twice. Beveridge will learn from his mistakes (hem hem Danger) and we will have Wood, JJ and Dahl back by then who we all sorely missed tonight. Even McLean, his lead up ability was missed tonight, every possibility he's fit again by Round 19.

We need to beat Geelong in the contested stuff and make them work damn harder to win their own footy, our midfield was deplorable tonight, there's no way our mids will get smashed like that again.
 
Cursed_Cat said:
I hear what you're saying, but slightly older Cats fans can relate only too well - we climbed that same mountain 4 times between '89-'95 only to get shot down in flames. Heartbreaking. I personally never thought I'd see a Cats premiership in my lifetime.
The Bulldogs are in it up to their necks this year; you'll get a few back from injury and be right amongst in come September - grab your chances and the drought could be all over.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to labour the point, but we're yet to even get to a Grand Final, instead, we've lost eight prelims in 30 years. Like a animal handler dangling a piece of meat on a string which is just out of reach.

However, we're in the eight and I can only hope that was our worst last night because it was putrid.

The club and long suffering supporters deserves so much more than what was dished up against your mob, so I want us breathing fire for the rest of 2016 and beyond. This has to be our turning point, our line in the sand.
 
littlenails said:
Agree. Clubs like the Hawks, Cats and Swans definitely get stronger through continually being in the top few teams. They are stronger again this year. They get more people on their membership roll, more sponsorship monies, more and better training and playing facilities and equipment, more and better coaches and medical and training staff of all types. They remain more attractive as a go-to club and get better publicity, venues and broadcast time. They get more clout. They can provide better for their players post retirement. They get more of their ex-players as commentators and coaches. Not nearly enough is done for equalisation.
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This just sounds like poor me poor me.The comp is loaded but Bulldogs fans like you need to move on like the club and team are trying to do. If all fans keep this attitude we'll always be associated with being losers and everyone's second team. I'm over that, we're building and trying to change the perception.
Are you of these fans that has a go at other fans for calling a bad player bad? I hear it all the time from old school fans that you're not a "real" fan if you call something out. I'm the opposite, I think too many of us Doggies fans accept mediocrity like it's all we're worth.
We have the makings of a hell of a team. It's almost like some Dogs fans revel in us underachieving and would have nothing to moan about if, when, we win a flag.
 
Mattdougie said:
Keep fishing

Go and watch the game again

Watch his positioning and work late to contests, go and watch his body work and the amount of times he stood still and didn't follow his man.

Try and actually watch footy and not just read a stat sheet

He wasn't poor but he was far from good the only positive for him is this week he wasn't alone.

But you keep on and enjoy the English weather.
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So, now your problem is with Jong's work without the ball? As opposed to his work with the ball, because he used the ball well or at least better than many of his team mates?

Jong got to a lot of contests, and he laid six tackles (3rd highest for us, and 7th highest in the match) and applied more pressure than most of our players.

Didn't follow his man? Who was he playing on? We often employ a zone, so don't imply he was on a hard tag.
 
The issue that stood out for me tonight was our lack of 2-way running. There were numerous occasions where we could not get enough players to run and provide targets in the forward line and, going the other way, provide support for hard-pressed defenders. Some of our usually reliable mids just couldn't impact due to this. Not sure whether this was a lack of pace, a lack of hard running or both.
 
Also can we stop making excuses about the goalkicking.

Geelong might have kicked a couple from the boundary, but at the same time they kicked about 7 goals that they walked in from the goalsquare that are all 100% monties. Take those 7 away from them and their accuracy is somewhat more acceptable.

Then on the other side of our 5 goals, 4 of them were kicked from about 40m out or further. It wasn't as if we were missing set shots or uncontested snaps etc. from 25, 30m out.

It had an impact but in reality probably a goal or two either way, and nothing that really impacts the game.
 
Wetdog said:
So, now your problem is with Jong's work without the ball? As opposed to his work with the ball, because he used the ball well or at least better than many of his team mates?

Jong got to a lot of contests, and he laid six tackles (3rd highest for us, and 7th highest in the match) and applied more pressure than most of our players.

Didn't follow his man? Who was he playing on? We often employ a zone, so don't imply he was on a hard tag.
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My problem is with pretty much everything he does but I'm not drowning the thread again

The team was crap tonite and half the reason for that was the fact we have so many out we have to play blokes that arnt up to it.

If you think that bringing any player in and then they arnt worst on ground and are better than Bont on the night means they deserve to stay in then sorry mate you really have no idea.
 
Mattdougie said:
Mate I'm not going to whack the bloke anymore

He is playing one due to injuries so that should say enough to anyone shouldn't it?

He was ok tonite in a really poor performance but do you not understand when he is out there no other team tag or even worry about him so he does get space as any other player playing his role would.

I will send u or anyone a pm of what I watch when I see him, and other players, this isn't only him and see why I have such a poor opinion of him and then you can agree or not agree it's up to you
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Ok. So you consider Jong a depth player? That's fair enough. In that context, you should be applauding him for being one of our better players. He comes into the side - because of injuries and VFL form - and gives a solid individual performance against a premiership contender.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
Also can we stop making excuses about the goalkicking.

Geelong might have kicked a couple from the boundary, but at the same time they kicked about 7 goals that they walked in from the goalsquare that are all 100% monties. Take those 7 away from them and their accuracy is somewhat more acceptable.

Then on the other side of our 5 goals, 4 of them were kicked from about 40m out or further. It wasn't as if we were missing set shots or uncontested snaps etc. from 25, 30m out.

It had an impact but in reality probably a goal or two either way, and nothing that really impacts the game.
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Disagree

Geelongs goalkicking was off the charts tonight

Danger, Hawkins x2, Murdoch etc all nailed goals with very low probability, that definitely helped their cause
 
Woofing said:
Didn't see the game tonight. Terrible result. Not overly concerned. It's only round 13. If they do that to us round 19 with some blokes back I'll be concerned. Nobody should be sacked on the beck of one performance. Looking forward to seeing big Tommy B tomorrow.
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You lost me at "didn't see the game tonight". Seriously why post about a game you've not watched 1 minute of.
 

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Autopsy Round 13... cats 16.4 def Dogs 5.13

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