Autopsy Round 14, 2023: Richmond v St.Kilda

[phantom13]

Nope all I said was he wasn't particularly disliked by supporters of other sides, whereas the two we're talking about are. So that means it's not because they're successful that they're disliked.

Personal opinion obviously but the “ducking” shit is ridiculous and I already mentioned that I liked that Cotchin has some prick about him.

Personally if you don’t respect those two and love the way they play footy you probably should watch another sport.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Yeah JB as frustrating as last night was you can see there is still hope with the young kids you mentioned add King , Higgins and Butler there is plenty for the future. I’m just disappointed in our senior players that are doing what they have done the last few years

I’m also really worried with have SOS as list manager time will tell but I have no faith in him playing the long game and doing what’s right for the club

We should get JSOS in as list manager, he did recommend Caminiti for us.

We do have a good young base of players though, there is something to build here, I feel it is the Richo era players that are letting us down the most right now.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Why all the doom and gloom - the Blues are doing us a big favour by thrashing the Suns - maintains that nice two games buffer between us and 9th

 

[NarklesHelmet]

When has the club made any excuses for losing these games

Talking fans/members as part of the club as a whole. And as Mowman said, year of exploration, a preemptive excuse.

 

[StFly]

Why all the doom and gloom - the Blues are doing us a big favour by thrashing the Suns - maintains that nice two games buffer between us and 9th


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We're a game off 4th playing 4th instead of equal points for the winner to be outright after playing what was previously the side 3 games back, therein the doom, and gloom as they (the seniors) simply don't want it, mentally squibbed it like they did last year and the year before, they don't want the pressure of expectation. Doggies should also win to make a 3 way tie so that next week we can drop from 5th to 8th and get lucky that the Tiggies have a bye to get within half a game of us. Also got lucky that the Crows had the bye as well.

It's like why are you cheating at this stage in a season? Why are you still taking an age to go "oh, it's pissing down, I better change what I am doing instead of being literal definition of insanity" as a player? You do it because you don't actually care or you don't actually know, because if you did know and if you did care then you would have put in the effort.

I look forward to year 4 where the same sort of players that should be showing leadership say once again "half arse it bois, we've had enough" to not demand a finals spot when it's gifted to us. Can't wait to last round where we can also give the Eagles their next win of the season cause it's what we do...

 

[Sully111]

Personal opinion obviously but the “ducking” s**t is ridiculous and I already mentioned that I liked that Cotchin has some prick about him.

Personally if you don’t respect those two and love the way they play footy you probably should watch another sport.

Selwood is a cheat. It absolutely tarnishes his legacy. So no, I don't love the way he plays footy.... because he's a cheat.

 

[The Cobra]

Yeah JB as frustrating as last night was you can see there is still hope with the young kids you mentioned add King , Higgins and Butler there is plenty for the future. I’m just disappointed in our senior players that are doing what they have done the last few years

I’m also really worried with have SOS as list manager time will tell but I have no faith in him playing the long game and doing what’s right for the club

Certainly dont want SOS looking to recruit Junior SOS - the last player we need!

 

[Saintbloke]

Interesting to note the players who were doing really well in the first 4 or 5 games, who have now dropped off the pace and having less effect- in no particular order or whatever reason: Steele, Byrnes, Stocker, Wood, Caminiti, and inconsistency from Higgins, Hill, injury to Clark. The guys seemed willing to run through a brick wall, but now hesitation is creeping in, and we are not as bold in our style. Sinclair, Butler and Wilke have been very good all season mostly. Just an observation.

 

[The Jack]

One positive. We are still easily the best in one really important stat. And by a fair margin

Undisputed Red Time world champions. Not even funny any more.

 

[aussierulesrules]

While Wood has definitely dropped off significantly since he did his shoulder when he was on fire against Essendon, he had a very noteworthy 14 contested possessions last night, which was the 4th-most of anyone on the ground and hella-impressive for someone playing mainly wing.

All the others in the top 8 (11 or more) played on the inside.

Was similar to his 16 contested possession game against Port in the wet in Cairns last year. He evidently thrives in those conditions.

 

[The Cobra]

Interesting to note the players who were doing really well in the first 4 or 5 games, who have now dropped off the pace and having less effect- in no particular order or whatever reason: Steele, Byrnes, Stocker, Wood, Caminiti, and inconsistency from Higgins, Hill, injury to Clark. The guys seemed willing to run through a brick wall, but now hesitation is creeping in, and we are not as bold in our style. Sinclair, Butler and Wilke have been very good all season mostly. Just an observation.

Agree except I’m not sure Wilkie is nearly as dominant as he was early and obviously made a couple of crucial errors last night

 

[MickG88]

Dont get me wrong I do want the club to play finals, but on our current trajectory if we do, we will just fall in and get smashed when they come around.

Why?? If we stopped the comp right now then we play Western Bulldogs. We beat them earlier this year, why can't we do it again? Otherwise, we might play either Essendon (beat) and Crows at home (crows aren't good away from Adelaide.)
I think your doom and gloom mentality is unhealthy and maybe think about what "expert" were saying about us preseason. Bottom 4. Finishing inside the 8 is a win in my books.

 

[Sun Ra]

Certainly dont want SOS looking to recruit Junior SOS - the last player we need!

 

[gringo2011]

We missed the finals by one game last year
We now have a much better coach apparently we have a great coaching group under him anything but finals is failure this year
Year of exploration is nothing but a cop out IMO we were 6 & 2 you don’t miss finals from there

You can't polish a turd though. Maybe we just aren't a very good list. We look like we don't have a midfield with enough depth and quality. If other clubs improve by 50% and you only improve by 40% they go past you. Adelaide, Gold Coast, Essendon, Port, Hawks and North have all improved on last year. There is only really WCE left that are proper shit and they have a lot of injury issues. We have missed finals for 12 years apart from the short game short season hub year. Most of it has been stupid decisions with list management and drafting.

 

[gringo2011]

Dont get me wrong I do want the club to play finals, but on our current trajectory if we do, we will just fall in and get smashed when they come around. The other benefit is the dollars and hope finals bring supporters - but the reality is with our current list we are simply not good enough! We may get back some players who could make difference in Jones, McKenzie, Coffield & Hayes but thats a big ask given the amount of footy they have all missed. Otherwise we have a complete void of midfield depth even at VFL level and our key tall depth are all skinny young kids, they are years away from becoming serious AFL players. Then we have a couple of crocs like Cordy & Campbell who are really just break the glass in case of emergency players.

If we were to convince anyone to move, that work has already been done! Its what the coach can sell about the clubs future, a lot more important than playing finals this year. Players are not stupid its about the potential to win flags, the direction of the club, not the club playing finals the year before they arrive! I think if Lyon had of been coaching last year we would have got De Goey over the line regardless of our ladder position.

Obviously all players want to play finals but the majority make up there minds about moving clubs a long time before the finals come around. I think that really only applies if the club are genuine premiership chances - or are one of the big Vic clubs. It might add a little to the attraction, but being competitive and selling what the player brings to the club are as important. I think the entire AFL industry knows Lyon is a very good coach and with the right players he can take a club to consistent finals.

We have shown we can be competitive but desperately need elite midfielders to go to the next level. To bring one or more in we will need either decent draft capital or $$$. The perfect player would be Darcy Parish but the chances of him moving even for big $$$ are slight. I havent heard anything else about us targetting elite ready to go mids? That means we need to go to the draft to pick up the players we need - and whats better at the draft than higher draft picks. Apart from Gresham & Billings I cant see the club trading out any other players of value. So I think we may need to suck up another year of no finals and go back to the draft before we can have a realistic tilt.

Hopefully I am wrong and we can majically become a real finals threat, but I have seen enough of our AFL & VFL players to be more of a realist this year.

None of the players expected to go high are mids this year, we probably get access to the best or second best mid at a pick around 10 to 15. No reason to tank this year.

 

[beside the seaside]

You can't polish a turd though. Maybe we just aren't a very good list. We look like we don't have a midfield with enough depth and quality. If other clubs improve by 50% and you only improve by 40% they go past you. Adelaide, Gold Coast, Essendon, Port, Hawks and North have all improved on last year. There is only really WCE left that are proper s**t and they have a lot of injury issues. We have missed finals for 12 years apart from the short game short season hub year. Most of it has been stupid decisions with list management and drafting.

It would be nice to see some shoots blooming in the middle. I actually thought Windhager looked pretty good yesterday going toe to toe with Bolton, he's actually quite tall and looks strong, he needs to stay in there for the rest of the year and keep building. Hopefully Phillipou can build on a good first year and be injected into the midfield soon, maybe even next year.

If you look at Port this year, when kids go to another level in the middle it makes you a hell of a lot better. It feels like we aren't going to pick up guns by trading so we need to rely on smart drafting which as you say has been lacking for many years.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

On form alone he should be dropped , hate to say it - I really feel he needs a good break

'It's actually inaccurate': Knee injury not behind skipper's dip in form

St Kilda captain Jack Steele struggled against Richmond but coach Ross Lyon is adamant he's not carrying a knee injury

www.afl.com.au

He’s apparently not hurt just playing shit. No excuses then

 

[gringo2011]

I think even with Steele at his best last night the Tigers would have still dominated stoppages. Its a collective effort starting with the ruckman, Marshall battled manfully but Nankervis out muscled him. Ross and Crouch had a dip but are slow to react and limited in what they bring. Without playing Sinclair and perhaps Stocker in there we really dont have much else. I know some believe Clark makes a difference and in that slug fest last night he probably would have. But how many games do we play in those conditions and on a dry track Clark is far too slow for me.

Its a huge hole in the list that has been so for years and the club have been in denial if they think otherwise! Thats why Im coming around to the idea of losing Gresham, if we can attract real midfield talent?

Tigers pressure and constant movement was too much for our midfield and put a lot of pressure on our defence. Our defence which has been a best line struggled last night, even Wilkie wasnt at his best and had a couple of costly turn overs. It didnt go well for the rest when our most reliable player was making simple errors.

I wouldnt be surpirsed if RTB drops some big names next week. I think Howard & Gresham will come under real pressure of being left out and Steele rested, ins Cordy ?, Bytel and Peris to debut.

The ideal is bringing in more midfield quality and pushing guys that aren't performing down to Sandringham if they fail to perform.

I'd be chasing some ready made depth. Still reckon Matt Crouch putting pressure on from underneath would be good and chasing Dev Roberston, Flanders and Mathieson types as well. We need bulk mids even for a few years while the kids build up to take over. Worst case Sandy gets a bit more competitive.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

 

[gringo2011]

It would be nice to see some shoots blooming in the middle. I actually thought Windhager looked pretty good yesterday going toe to toe with Bolton, he's actually quite tall and looks strong, he needs to stay in there for the rest of the year and keep building. Hopefully Phillipou can build on a good first year and be injected into the midfield soon, maybe even next year.

If you look at Port this year, when kids go to another level in the middle it makes you a hell of a lot better. It feels like we aren't going to pick up guns by trading so we need to rely on smart drafting which as you say has been lacking for many years.

Port developed their kids with runs on ball but playing outside the midfield. I think that's what we are doing at the moment. Zac Butters is just starting to turn into a fully fledged star at 22 with 5 seasons and 80 games behind him. That's when we should have been drafting instead of overpaying for Howard and Hill types.

Windhager looked good but still plays on a player rather than dominates the clearances. He needs to get games into him but realistically Bytel is the only one that is a pre developed mid that looks like he could get a starting spot on ball and hold it. It's a real balancing act development.

 

[gringo2011]

DeGoey used us as a means of getting more money. And good for him. Different coach was never going to change that.

I reckon that missing finals probably made us a lot less appealing compared to what he would have been leaving.

 

[Inside fiddy]

I just thought that the footy gods weren't going to allow Richmond to lose last night, I don't know what type of deal Cotchin made but they really love him.
Every sneaky snap at goal went in for Richmond, every bounce of the ball went their way and even the weather turn it on for Richmond. We were pushing a boulder up hill and everytime we were looking good, we lost footing and the boulder squished us.

With all due respect Mick, you have to be joking! Free kick count was 25-12 in your favour - I have never seen umpiring keep a team in the game like what I witnessed last night. You say the weather turned it on for Richmond yet they reeled in a 4 goal deficit to be 2 goals in front at quarter time in perfect conditions. They beat you in the dry and they beat you in the wet with the umpires totally against them.

 

[gringo2011]

Nope all I said was he wasn't particularly disliked by supporters of other sides, whereas the two we're talking about are. So that means it's not because they're successful that they're disliked.

Both Selwood and Cotchin are ultra competitive and both have a habit of playing a bit dirty when needed. Selwood playing for frees made him on the nose to most opposition fans and Cotch would eye gouge and occasionally step over the line of what was acceptable to the opposition fans. Lenny Hayes had that kind of competitive spirit but played an honest tough competitive game without resorting to the dirty acts. Eventually most opposition fans warmed to him.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

With all due respect Mick, you have to be joking! Free kick count was 25-12 in your favour - I have never seen umpiring keep a team in the game like what I witnessed last night. You say the weather turned it on for Richmond yet they reeled in a 4 goal deficit to be 2 goals in front at quarter time in perfect conditions. They beat you in the dry and they beat you in the wet with the umpires totally against them.

Why are you here, mouth breather?

 

[gringo2011]

With all due respect Mick, you have to be joking! Free kick count was 25-12 in your favour - I have never seen umpiring keep a team in the game like what I witnessed last night. You say the weather turned it on for Richmond yet they reeled in a 4 goal deficit to be 2 goals in front at quarter time in perfect conditions. They beat you in the dry and they beat you in the wet with the umpires totally against them.

Thanks for your contribution campaigner face.