Game Day Round 16, 2022 - Brisbane Lions vs. Western Bulldogs

[M Malice]

Looking at the overall picture looking from the outside, my impression this season is that the Coaches and Senior Teams performances are well below expectations. I feel that the Coach and Assistants have lost the players. We have had many ugly performances this season but have not seen game enthusiasm at all compared to Carlton, Collingwood Richmond now and the player management/performance at Geelong. Just look at the Geelong v's Richmond game last week - a Classic. Are we performing anywhere near that - NO. Even though the Dogs have players out, I am not at all confident of us winning. Are we still going to play a crap performance or a vastly improved one? Let's hope we get the latter.

Gee that's a big call Strato... time for a complete cleanout of the coaching ranks then? Fagan & Co on your bike.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Time for a bit of a historical perspective. Fitzroy made the finals in 1979, 1981, 1983, 1984 and 1986. During that period we did not make a Grand Final, despite having great teams loaded with talent, including players like Quinlan, Wilson, Rendell, Conlan, Roos, Pert, Osborne, Alexander, Lokan, Serafini, Allan, Irwin, Harris and many others.

Our record during those five finals campaigns was:
1979 1-1 (out in Semi Final)
1981 1-1 (out in Semi Final)
1983 0-2 (out in straight sets)
1984 0-1 (out in Elimination Final)
1986 2-1 (out in Preliminary Final)
Total Finals Win / Loss 4-6

Don’t get me wrong, I loved those Fitzroy sides and this period provided some of the happiest memories of my life as a Fitzroy member, but it was a shame that we couldn’t do better, especially in 1983.

Looking at our current Lions team and the clubs finals record since 2019, I am starting to get a very similar vibe, except at this stage our current finals record is worse. Great team, better than most, amazing highlights, consistent performance, but nothing to show for it in the silverware cabinet. I suppose the problem with Fitzroy was that we were financially hamstrung, had a bit of bad luck and at the end of the day, we just weren’t ruthless enough. Fast forward to 2022 and the current Lions team. I can see some worrying signs and troubling parallels. As I said elsewhere, Premiership Windows can be fickle and they have a habit of slamming shut. In the time that we have been up and about since 2019, Melbourne have gone from 17th to 9th to Premiers and they handed us our arses in the national stage last week. What are they doing that we are not?

I hope we win tonight, we desperately need it, but we would be fools if we papered over the cracks with a home win against a good team that is suffering from some big “outs”

I am really starting to doubt if Fagan is ruthless enough. His comment about giving the players a “mulligan” after our disgraceful performance against Melbourne has shaken my confidence in him. Our players also seem to lack that “edge” that every great team I have watched in over 50 years has had.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Looking at the overall picture looking from the outside, my impression this season is that the Coaches and Senior Teams performances are well below expectations. I feel that the Coach and Assistants have lost the players. We have had many ugly performances this season but have not seen game enthusiasm at all compared to Carlton, Collingwood Richmond now and the player management/performance at Geelong. Just look at the Geelong v's Richmond game last week - a Classic. Are we performing anywhere near that - NO. Even though the Dogs have players out, I am not at all confident of us winning. Are we still going to play a crap performance or a vastly improved one? Let's hope we get the latter.

Agree that performances are below expectations but we're still doing OK. We were coasting along it seemed the first few rounds and then we played like a team that can dominate against the Suns in round 6 and we were in good form for a few weeks and maybe some of the back to back travel took a bit of energy out of the group. I think our form in those weeks is comparable to Richmond and Carlton the last few weeks.

Big call to say that the coaching staff have lost the players. I think the blame should be on the players collectively for last week, not the coaches. So many missed tackles and a lack of physicality apart from our defenders. Can't imagine our team not bouncing back from that embarrassment.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Time for a bit of a historical perspective. Fitzroy made the finals in 1979, 1981, 1983,1984 and 1986. During that period we did not make a Grand Final, despite having great teams loaded with talent, including players like Quinlan, Wilson, Rendell, Conlan, Roos, Pert, Osborne, Alexander, Lokan, Serafini, Allan, Irwin, Harris and many others.

Our record during those five finals campaigns was:
1979 1-1 (out in Semi Final)
1981 1-1 (out in Semi Final)
1983 0-2 (out in straight sets)
1984 0-1 (out in Elimination Final)
1986 2-1 (out in Preliminary Final)
Total Finals Win / Loss 4-6

Don’t get me wrong, I loved those Fitzroy sides and this period provided some of the happiest memories of my life as a Fitzroy member, but it was a shame that we couldn’t do better, especially in 1983.

Looking at our current Lions team and the clubs finals record since 2019, I am starting to get a very similar vibe, except at this stage our current finals record is worse. Great team, better than most, amazing highlights, consistent performance, but nothing to show for it in the silverware cabinet. I suppose the problem with Fitzroy was that we were financially hamstrung, had a bit of bad luck and at the end of the day, we just weren’t ruthless enough. Fast forward to 2022 and the current Lions team. I can see some worrying signs and troubling parallels. As I said elsewhere, Premiership Windows can be fickle and they have a habit of slamming shut. In the time that we have been up and about since 2019, Melbourne have gone from 17th to 9th to Premiers and they handed us our arses in the national stage last week. What are they doing that we are not?

I hope we win tonight, we desperately need it, but we would be fools if we papered over the cracks with a home win against a good team that is suffering from some big “outs”

That's a pretty selective stat to select. They were in the top 8 the year before and the media were onto them for underperforming in 2019 and there was lots of pressure on the coach because of this. They are proof that teams don't improve year on year on the way to the top, there is always some inconsistency in performance along the way.

 

[MacMum]

I'd prefer to give them 300 games but if his first game wasn't good enough you don't just keep playing him to be nice

Dont think JBrowny was real flash in his first game, perhaps he should've been dropped? What a travasty that would've been.

I would like to see new kids coming in to the seniors given 3-4 games before deciding they're not good enough. Let them settle for consistency. That includes Matho and TBerry.

 

[mpal6]

Agree that performances are below expectations but we're still doing OK. We were coasting along it seemed the first few rounds and then we played like a team that can dominate against the Suns in round 6 and we were in good form for a few weeks and maybe some of the back to back travel took a bit of energy out of the group. I think our form in those weeks is comparable to Richmond and Carlton the last few weeks.

Big call to say that the coaching staff have lost the players. I think the blame should be on the players collectively for last week, not the coaches. So many missed tackles and a lack of physicality apart from our defenders. Can't imagine our team not bouncing back from that embarrassment.

Rather than losing, I'd say the coaching staff are not placing bigger demand on players. Ruthless coaching group would have tore shreds off our players demanding more n more all throughout the season, especially after performances like last week.

This could also become player driven too. Push each other - don't accept mediocrity and reach for excellence as a group every single time they step on the field.

 

[Dalions]

Rather than losing, I'd say the coaching staff are not placing bigger demand on players. Ruthless coaching group would have tore shreds off our players demanding more n more all throughout the season, especially after performances like last week.

This could also become player driven too. Push each other - don't accept mediocrity and reach for excellence as a group every single time they step on the field.

I got a hint of the non acceptance from both Neale and Fages pressers yesterday.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Dont think JBrowny was real flash in his first game, perhaps he should've been dropped? What a travasty that would've been.

I would like to see new kids coming in to the seniors given 3-4 games before deciding they're not good enough. Let them settle for consistency. That includes Matho and TBerry.

I'd like to see that too but form still has to warrant it

I'd like us to select our best 22 in round 1 and not make any changes for the whole season. That'd be great

 

[KissKiss]

Surprised by so many getting annoyed at Tunstill getting a second game. I always find it kinda harsh when a player on debut is given 1 game. I prefer 2 or 3, even if you're planning to drop them, just to get them an actual exposure to the top level.

Also surprised at so many annoyed at Matho not getting selected. "If he gets 50 touches, will he get a game then?". Finding the ball has never been Matho's problem, it's what to do after he gets it. And Matho has only got one answer - "kick it long". If he has 20 GOOD disposals, then he deserves a game.

Im not against Tunstill getting more than one game. I'm just bemused by when he's got them. Debuting midfielders against 2 of the best midfields in the comp is rough. We should have been looking at the fixture and picking some more reasonable games to trial and tinker.

When we get those games we hear things about playing the best 22 every game. Then we go against the best teams and debut a kid in his first year. The messaging is all over the shop.

As a complete outsider, I think our selection process is flawed. We have been poor at utilising our list across a season for quite some time now

 

[golions]

Looking at the overall picture looking from the outside, my impression this season is that the Coaches and Senior Teams performances are well below expectations. I feel that the Coach and Assistants have lost the players. We have had many ugly performances this season but have not seen game enthusiasm at all compared to Carlton, Collingwood Richmond now and the player management/performance at Geelong. Just look at the Geelong v's Richmond game last week - a Classic. Are we performing anywhere near that - NO. Even though the Dogs have players out, I am not at all confident of us winning. Are we still going to play a crap performance or a vastly improved one? Let's hope we get the latter.

I think we will win tonight but agree with the rest.

Mainly going off Fagan's pressers - it's almost like he can't see the forest for the trees - after the loss he said "that's the worst we've played for a long time" - that's factually correct but that is not the point - the point is that we were coming up against a team that has dismantled us the last 2 times we have played them, and we went in with the same game plan again and didn't do anything different - why?

It's not really about our form at the start of the season - obviously we are flat track bullies and beat up the leser teams, but where the real work that needs to be done is strategy, coaching and team selection against the teams that we need to beat in finals and we haven't shown any evidence of this. That saying "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result" seems apt to our situation

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I see the pessimists are still out in force. Would suspect we are 10-4.

 

[Viceregal]

Just got sent two free tickets for the game tonight in Section 228 which I am not able to use ... anyone interested?

 

[Nathan Barley]

I see the pessimists are still out in force. Would suspect we are 10-4.

I don't think any are pessimistic about being top 8 worthy or even top 4 worthy moreso about being a premiership contender and being 1 of 5 teams with 10 wins or more doesn't mean much

 

[Hollow Knight]

Game won’t start for another 7 hours but I’m confident in saying that the umpiring is already utter bullshit and Weightman is embarrassing himself by flopping all over the place.

 

[Nunez]

I see the pessimists are still out in force. Would suspect we are 10-4.

I suspect this will be the best post of the thread by the time the night is over.

 

[Dazb86]

Hey guys I've made the trip up here with my uncle. Lovely city


Just wondering where it's safe to sit at the Gabba? I've heard numerous reports it can be a treacherous place for opposition supporters.

 

[Nunez]

Hey guys I've made the trip up here with my uncle. Lovely city


Just wondering where it's safe to sit at the Gabba? I've heard numerous reports it can be a treacherous place for opposition supporters.

Don't worry mate, only Essendon supporters' uncles are at risk here.

 

[mpal6]

I think we will win tonight but agree with the rest.

Mainly going off Fagan's presser - it's almost like he can't see the forest for the trees - after the loss he said "that's the worst we've played for a long time" - that's factually correct but that is not the point - the point is that we were coming up against a team that has dismantled us the last 2 times we have played them, and we went in with the same game plan again and didn't do anything different - why? it's not really about our form at the start of the season - obviously we are flat track bullies and beat up the leser teams, but where the real work that needs to be done is strategy, coaching and team selection to the teams that we need to beat in finals and we haven't shown any evidence of this. That saying "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result" seems apt to our sitation

Yep pretty much. I hope we stop talking about the 9-1 run with our 3 tall forwardline in 2021. Every finals worthy team are taking that template and putting a lot of effort into neutralizing it, be it tagging Neale or beating us in middle etc.
When that template works and everyone is flying, great. Just get the answers for when its not working and what do we do. It needs to be better than long kick to wing from D50, half the contest there and rely on winning the stoppage from there. Every single Lions supporter know this so our opposition would be way more prepared for this one.

 

[martinson]

I don't think any are pessimistic about being top 8 worthy or even top 4 worthy moreso about being a premiership contender and being 1 of 5 teams with 10 wins or more doesn't mean much

Footy fans waver between pessimism and optimism. Everything I've read on this thread has been basically realistic. Our performances this year have been generally underwhelming and everyone is pleased that we're 10-4 given the way we've played. In light of the pre season optimism.

The issue is can we lift to the level we need to win big games or is the way we've played the way we are.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Hey guys I've made the trip up here with my uncle. Lovely city


Just wondering where it's safe to sit at the Gabba? I've heard numerous reports it can be a treacherous place for opposition supporters.

 

[spotthedog1]

I'd prefer to give them 300 games but if his first game wasn't good enough you don't just keep playing him to be nice

That's a very black and white viewpoint. I think it's a little more nuanced. It might take a quarter to get used to AFL speed. Heck, it might even take two!

Plus, you have to take into account personality and motivations. I remember an old mate of mine used to do some work with the Broncs. Wayne Bennett was walking around the sheds, and he talked to a young fella. I think it might’ve been Kodi Nikorima. Wayne talked to him, said "you're playing, and you're playing next week. No matter what mistakes you make, I'm guaranteeing you 6 weeks in the role". Then he turned around to an older guy, mightve been Josh McGuire, and said "you're back in the side this week. Impress me or you're in the reserves next week."

 

[The Zork]

Expecting a real aggressive approach which will likely work into the favour of the bulldogs and their natural ability to milk free kicks.
That’s fine, but If we get frustrated and drop our bundle then it will spell trouble, even more so if we start to play for frees ourselves don’t receive and they walk it out of our 50 and move it end to end.

Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

not being there assists. He’s the prototype player who cuts us up.

Just a must win really.

 

[BRAB]

I'm glad to see that Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

isn't playing this time. His celebration last year mocked my culture.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Hey guys I've made the trip up here with my uncle. Lovely city


Just wondering where it's safe to sit at the Gabba? I've heard numerous reports it can be a treacherous place for opposition supporters.

All aboard mate, probably where the opposition run out which of course are yous , which is on the Stanley st. side around section 218 lower level.
Usually plenty of opposition supporters around there , sat there once with Carlton supporters , never again..
Also the cheersquad is towards the goal end from there .
Just a tip, get seats next to the Aisle.
Easier to leave early , when we flog you. Ba ha.

 

[McIvor]

Dont think JBrowny was real flash in his first game, perhaps he should've been dropped? What a travasty that would've been.

I would like to see new kids coming in to the seniors given 3-4 games before deciding they're not good enough. Let them settle for consistency. That includes Matho and TBerry.

I agree in principal but not against the two grand finalists the previous year on a Thursday night. These two games are not the games you give a kid exposure otherwise as someone else said, give them games on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday twilight against North or Essendon.