Preview Round 17, 2022: Hawks v Crows 3:20pm Sun 10th July, Marvel Stadium

[Sixpence]

Last we see of him?

Spare me opinions dressed as factual statements

He isn't going anywhere

There's a difference between saying "Could be the last time" and "It will be the last time". He gave an opinion, not stated a fact.

 

[RobHawk]

Probably best Day does'nt play on that concrete surface on Sunday.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

There's a difference between saying "Could be the last time" and "It will be the last time". He gave an opinion, not stated a fact.

With no actual facts being behind it, because people in this forum state opinion as fact, it becomes a non factual based opinion

It serves no positive purpose

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Probably best Day does'nt play on that concrete surface on Sunday.

LOL, he’s not made of porcelain.

 

[Sixpence]

With no actual facts being behind it, because people in this forum state opinion as fact, it becomes a non factual based opinion

It serves no positive purpose

I agree that some people in here are in the habit of stating opinions as fact, but this was not an example of it.

And not everything has to be positive. It's not unreasonable to think Worpel may be traded. I don't think he will, but he could be.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Not much point in getting the ball if it’s burned or results in a turnover

if he's 3rd in score involvements how could this possibly be true

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I agree that some people in here are in the habit of stating opinions as fact, but this was not an example of it.

And not everything has to be positive. It's not unreasonable to think Worpel may be traded. I don't think he will, but he could be.

But its not reasonable to post it as an opinion when there is actually no basis

It serves no purpose, postive or negative

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Please the rest of 2022 is preperation for 2023 .

Send Gunston, Worpel and Chad off for operations now, an to deal with there rehab. Set them up for a big preseason and 2023.

In Ward, Maginness, Barrass,
Out: Worpel, Day, Shiels

 

[Sixpence]

Please the rest of 2022 is preperation for 2023 .

Send Gunston, Worpel and Chad off for operations now, an to deal with there rehab. Set them up for a big preseason and 2023.

In Ward, Maginness, Barrass,
Out: Worpel, Day, Shiels

For what? You don't just have surgery for shits and giggles.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Weak. Would love an explanation.

 

[CHUBBSS]

if he's 3rd in score involvements how could this possibly be true

The amount of times he gets in the chain for no purpose other then being in the way and getting the ball is more detrimental to the side.

The only positive in his game now is his stoppage work around the ground otherwise if our best midfielder is kicking at 50% and getting the ball 30 times a game we are ending up with 10 turnovers directly from him not taking the time to look where his kicking or hand balling to an option that doesn’t result in a turnover.

Our midfield won’t improve until Mitchell leaves

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I look forward to the time our Round 17 games are meaningful again, miss the excitement of heading into the last 7 games of the season thinking of a possible finals series as opposed to putting players in for surgery and jockeying for draft position.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

For what? You don't just have surgery for shits and giggles.

Why not?

I love going and getting random surgeries

 

[eldorado]

Why not?

I love going and getting random surgeries

There's actually some psychological syndrome that does that, I think...

 

[BIGHAWK23]

There's actually some psychological syndrome that does that, I think...

Factitious Disorder (also called Munchausen syndrome)

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

The amount of times he gets in the chain for no purpose other then being in the way and getting the ball is more detrimental to the side.

The only positive in his game now is his stoppage work around the ground otherwise if our best midfielder is kicking at 50% and getting the ball 30 times a game we are ending up with 10 turnovers directly from him not taking the time to look where his kicking or hand balling to an option that doesn’t result in a turnover.

Our midfield won’t improve until Mitchell leaves

mate if that's your criteria for being a detriment to our side then it applies to literally every single midfielder we have. Newcombe averages more turnovers per game with fewer avg touches. JOM and Worpel only average like 0.4 turnovers per game fewer while getting 7-12 less possies. Their turnover to disposal ratios are all above 20%. Tom's disposal efficiency is also higher than every other inside mid on the team, unless you count Ward. Tom's turnover percentage is actually half of your fabricated 33%, which is pretty comparable (although admittedly a couple of percent higher) than elite mids like Oliver, Neale, Petracca, etc.

The idea that he's seagulling chains for no reason is statistically refutable by the fact this season he's had the highest Contested Possession Ratio of his career. I think the fact he isn't rocking up and grabbing 40 every week is a testament to his professionalism and that he's buying into our new vision. This was a valid criticism last year, but not as much this year.


I do not disagree that his kicking has regressed since 2018. He is a flawed player and may not be beneficial to us going forward given our need to rejig the midfield. His ability to fit into our game style does seem a stretch, but if a trade isn't reached, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt considering his strengths are winning contested ball and distributing it to breakaway outside mids, of which we have none.

I don't think it's valuable to extrapolate his 4-5 shit kicks a game (and yes, they're ****ing annoying) and ignore that he's still carrying this midfield while taking a backseat. Yes, his kicking and slow decision-making 100% deserve criticism. But all of that tends to happen in the uncontested space, not the contested, where he does the most for our team.

 

[SSSSSS]

Why not?

I love going and getting random surgeries

Wingard and Gunston rocking up to preseason 2023.

 

[Brishawk]

Wingard and Gunston rocking up to preseason 2023.

They going to hang out with dean charters and Stephen dank this spring?

 

[Blackhawk42]

Gunston likely to miss. Just reading that his father passed away.

Bigger things than footy.

 

[TylerDurden]

Gunston likely to miss. Just reading that his father passed away.

Bigger things than footy.

Was thinking the same.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

For what? You don't just have surgery for shits and giggles.

Gunston and Wingard have had reoccuring injurie. Gunston Back and Ankle.

Wingard issues with hammy / legs / ankles. Plays 2 games out 2-3 games with same injury and so on.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Gunston likely to miss. Just reading that his father passed away.

Bigger things than footy.

Just read that. Terrible news.

 

[Sixpence]

Gunston and Wingard have had reoccuring injurie. Gunston Back and Ankle.

Wingard issues with hammy / legs / ankles. Plays 2 games out 2-3 games with same injury and so on.

What exactly would you do with Wingard's calves/hammies? Surgery isn't a fix all option, it's not really an option for soft tissue injuries, as frustrating as they are.

Gunston's back probably just needs a bit more physio.

 

[CHUBBSS]

mate if that's your criteria for being a detriment to our side then it applies to literally every single midfielder we have. Newcombe averages more turnovers per game with fewer avg touches. JOM and Worpel only average like 0.4 turnovers per game fewer while getting 7-12 less possies. Their turnover to disposal ratios are all above 20%. Tom's disposal efficiency is also higher than every other inside mid on the team, unless you count Ward. Tom's turnover percentage is actually half of your fabricated 33%, which is pretty comparable (although admittedly a couple of percent higher) than elite mids like Oliver, Neale, Petracca, etc.

The idea that he's seagulling chains for no reason is statistically refutable by the fact this season he's had the highest Contested Possession Ratio of his career. I think the fact he isn't rocking up and grabbing 40 every week is a testament to his professionalism and that he's buying into our new vision. This was a valid criticism last year, but not as much this year.


I do not disagree that his kicking has regressed since 2018. He is a flawed player and may not be beneficial to us going forward given our need to rejig the midfield. His ability to fit into our game style does seem a stretch, but if a trade isn't reached, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt considering his strengths are winning contested ball and distributing it to breakaway outside mids, of which we have none.

I don't think it's valuable to extrapolate his 4-5 s*t kicks a game (and yes, they're ****** annoying) and ignore that he's still carrying this midfield while taking a backseat. Yes, his kicking and slow decision-making 100% deserve criticism. But all of that tends to happen in the uncontested space, not the contested, where he does the most for our team.

I’m generalising on the turnover stats but our biggest weakness atm is turnovers and getting burned from centre bounces. A best midfielder (supposedly) is a key part of that.

I don’t think his seagulling for the footy, I just think that’s how he has played forever and a day, and when he is getting it in the chain and coupled with his disposal issues our best midfielder isn’t our best, I’m right off him now. I seriously think playing maginess now would offer more long term benefit from the side and actually offer some defence in the middle.

The midfield hasn’t operated as a unit since Tom came back from injury, I would rather not play him now but realise that’s extreme.


Summary: I dislike Tom’s game and don’t value his game for the middle anymore - no surprise we stink but a 29 year old that is seemingly declining isn’t going to garner much for trade and benefit a developing side that will be desperate to get games into players that need it.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

What exactly would you do with Wingard's calves/hammies? Surgery isn't a fix all option, it's not really an option for soft tissue injuries, as frustrating as they are.

Gunston's back probably just needs a bit more physio.

Send Wingard to a specialist, even if it is in another counrty. No use to anyone break down every 2-3 weeks.

We need Wingard to play each and every week to get form and confidence.

A good chance to give the young fellas more of a run and not harm our draft hand to badly with shit wins at the end of the season. We have a habit if winning a few.

If the young fellas win that is a bonus, it means were progressing in the right direction. Do not want to win becuase the older players dominated a few games.