Autopsy Round 17, 2023: St.Kilda v Melbourne *STEELE 150TH*

[ARCHIE66]

This is the happiest I’ve been after a loss since I can remember, up against a top 4 team who won a premiership two years ago, playing with 20 on the ground for pretty much the whole game with many bruised, fatigued and sore and we produce that. Who cares that may had his best game of his life, he was playing on no one and we lose our best key forward and there really not much we can do. Steele is back to his best, billing’s and jones ****ing great inclusions and we seem so much better with them in, hill, Higgins and battle to come back in. Hopefully Hayes too. After tonight I can confidently say we are good enough to play finals and I’m so proud of the boys and their effort. We have so many future a graders, Owens, pou, windy, nas, king, even caminiti who I thought was amazing today especially the first half. So much to be excited for!

 

[aussierulesrules]

I missed the entire game. What happened to Max?

Re-injured his shoulder in the first 17 seconds of the game. Was in a sling by the end.

 

[marcus1232]

Was very good tonight, shut your festering gob.

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Did we watch the same game Dougals disposal was directly responsible for 3-4 goals.

His one on one defence has gone backwards he is a liability

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Just on the topic of Caminiti.

Did he make some skill errors tonight? Sure did. We saw them live and if in doubt we can always watch the replay and see them again.

However I have seen the same Anthony Caminiti pull off some amazing handballs in previous games. Some lightning handballs through small openings that have lead to goals.

So a bit poor tonight no doubt.

But to suggest he is poorly skilled is just ridiculous.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Did we watch the same game Dougals disposal was directly responsible for 3-4 goals.

His one on one defence has gone backwards he is a liability

Not that it’s saying much, but I thought tonight was Doogie Howser’s best game of the year as well, to go with Steele, Ro and Gresh.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Just on the topic of Caminiti.

Did he make some skill errors tonight? Sure did. We saw them live and if in doubt we can always watch the replay and see them again.

However I have seen the same Anthony Caminiti pull off some amazing handballs in previous games. Some lightning handballs through small openings that have lead to goals.

So a bit poor tonight no doubt.

But to suggest he is poorly skilled is just ridiculous.

And the two handballs that I remember as being bad were left-handed ones. Not sure there would be too many 19yo key forwards who are proficient handballs on their non-dominant side at the pace of senior AFL level.

 

[Plugger35]

Just on the topic of Caminiti.

Did he make some skill errors tonight? Sure did. We saw them live and if in doubt we can always watch the replay and see them again.

However I have seen the same Anthony Caminiti pull off some amazing handballs in previous games. Some lightning handballs through small openings that have lead to goals.

So a bit poor tonight no doubt.

But to suggest he is poorly skilled is just ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more Mrs Caminiti.

He creates chances up forward but he needs to work on his execution, he's worth sticking with along with Owens, Phillipou. Windhager and Sharman.

Ross Lyon is no fool, he is getting games into our kids that have potential and he sees something in Caminiti which is why he keeps on getting games.

 

[Mavefromdelburn]

You all sound very happy.

Cannot fault the effort.

But I am so sick of being the victim lmao. It is always us. The bad bounce, the farken injuries, the wrong rub of the green, the 50-50 calls that go against, the 100% effort and still it blows up in our faces; Winning across the ground in so many facets! and the CONSTANT BOMBS INSIDE 50 TO AN INTERCEPT DEFENDER. It is un-f***ing-believable how often we just rinse repeat that. Even our best users (sincs) did it. It costs us games. Also, farken kick straight ya mugs.

Anyway, I did love the effort. It was so good to see buy in, tackle after tackle. Buy in across the ground. That I do love, and I can cop a loss when it feels like the players have given there all.

But shit, tough pill to swallow.

We should have won that....

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

I respect the positivity - for me personally, I'm shattered and rather flat.
Watching the game live I just thought we were the better team but just lacked the most important skill that unfortunately the Dees capitalised on.

Seriously, we would be all over them and just kicking SHOCKERS inside 50 for about 75% of the qtr then the ONE time they go forward on the rebound the inside 50 would just hit the chest of a forward perfectly. So infuriating to watch us dominate for ZERO scoreboard reward and have literally everything that could possibly go wrong... go wrong. FMD three key injuries before half time on top of it all?

This is just me ranting but the comp is so even that we talk about the Dees being a genuine top 4 team but... if we won tonight that was us!!
We give ourselves excuses like oh we're young, we don't have the cattle and we'll be better for it next year but if we live in the present surely that's upsetting? A few shots at goal that hit the behind post tonight you could argue is why we're not labelled a top 4 side with a few "easier" games against much worse opposition to maintain the clubs best shot at a premiership in years???? Melbourne are f*cking sh*t and we lost it more than they won that game.

I'm flat because I just don't know how we turn it around. It feels like we're a cursed club destined to never see success (which I'm sure most don't agree with) but tonight really felt soooo St Kilda to me. Opportunities are presented to us and we find a way to not scoop them up every single time.

The kids are amazing, the future is bright and I'll always love the club.. but f*ck it's so hard to be a St Kilda supporter sometimes.

 

[StCicatriz]

Tbh is anyone really unhappy with how the fwd stocks are going?

It's the one area I feel super excited about. Caminiti 20. King 23. Owens 20. Phillipou 18. Higgins and butler ranked 2nd and 3rd for small fwds.

Down back we have nas playing some blistering footy. Sinclair elite. Wilkie amazing. Stocker has been a great find. Webster ever reliable. Battle is a young CHB.

Our issues are the midfield. Feel free to direct ya whinging there.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Apart from the injuries, the scoreline, the umpiring and the shitty luck, that all went pretty well.
Credit to Jones and JB they both acquitted themselves well.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Old mate Rossco gave Hammer not one but two mentions in the presser, so he’s obviously pretty happy with what he’s bringing to the table.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Cant question the effort, but f*****rk that was frustrating as hell to watch. Soooo many chances and so many blown kicks I50 / at goal. Glad my TV survived but going to be grumpy AF for the rest of the weekend

People have mentioned Steele, Roma and Sincs. All really stood up as leaders. Couple of others who who should to be acknowledged too:

NWM - 33 disposals, and beginning to rival Sincs as our best user
JWebb - Pickett had 2 kicks, 2 turnovers and 0 possessions I50
Z.Jones - 20 disposals (10 contested) and 5 clearances at 95%
Crouch - Our only reliable mid all year with another 27 disposals and 7 clearances
Windy - Looked okay at HB. Having a down year, but learning new skills and roles. Backing him for a big 2024

Also Pou with an almost game. 10 touches I50 and 4 shots at goal

Overall, not happy. But fingers crossed we may have turned a corner

 

[George]

Overall, not happy. But fingers we may have turned a corner

This is the most important thing for me and the reason I'm not too fussed on the result. We need to use this performance now as a line in the sand for our club in terms of what is required on an effort scale every week.

What I have realised is that ultimately most supporters only care if you are having a 100% crack every week. It's not so much about the result and this board is evidence of that. After last week this place was totally flat, we were shitting on the club, it felt like a bad loss even though we won on the scoreboard. This week majority of us are pretty pleased and proud of the performance despite the scoreboard.

Whatever happens for the rest of the year, this is the type of effort I want to expect from our group for the remainder of the season, because A) We will make finals off the back of performances like this and B) It will lift the standards within the club.

Our next 5 weeks will make or break our season. Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Hawthorn, Carlton, Richmond. From what I saw tonight we should be able to win at least 4 of those, which would have us sitting on 13 wins with 2 games left (Geelong, Brisbane) and 13 probably gets us in this year. Even if we just beat North, Carlton and Hawthorn, we will only need to find probably 1 win from Gold Coast Richmond Geelong Brisbane.

King isn't as big an out as some might think. We're more dangerous when he's not there because we're less predictable. Until we start to properly understand how to utilise King then having him out won't trouble us I don't think. I still expect us to make finals without him.

 

[Munga]

No passengers, we were up for it. If we bring that every week we'll have a few more W's.

 

[Munga]

This is the most important thing for me and the reason I'm not too fussed on the result. We need to use this performance now as a line in the sand for our club in terms of what is required on an effort scale every week.

What I have realised is that ultimately most supporters only care if you are having a 100% crack every week. It's not so much about the result and this board is evidence of that. After last week this place was totally flat, we were shitting on the club, it felt like a bad loss even though we won on the scoreboard. This week majority of us are pretty pleased and proud of the performance despite the scoreboard.

Whatever happens for the rest of the year, this is the type of effort I want to expect from our group for the remainder of the season, because A) We will make finals off the back of performances like this and B) It will lift the standards within the club.

Our next 5 weeks will make or break our season. Gold Coast, North Melbourne, Hawthorn, Carlton, Richmond. From what I saw tonight we should be able to win at least 4 of those, which would have us sitting on 13 wins with 2 games left (Geelong, Brisbane) and 13 probably gets us in this year. Even if we just beat North, Carlton and Hawthorn, we will only need to find probably 1 win from Gold Coast Richmond Geelong Brisbane.

King isn't as big an out as some might think. We're more dangerous when he's not there because we're less predictable. Until we start to properly understand how to utilise King then having him out won't trouble us I don't think. I still expect us to make finals without him.

 

[StFly]

Tbh is anyone really unhappy with how the fwd stocks are going?

It's the one area I feel super excited about. Caminiti 20. King 23. Owens 20. Phillipou 18. Higgins and butler ranked 2nd and 3rd for small fwds.

Down back we have nas playing some blistering footy. Sinclair elite. Wilkie amazing. Stocker has been a great find. Webster ever reliable. Battle is a young CHB.

Our issues are the midfield. Feel free to direct ya whinging there.

Two of those 4 are mids playing forward, we only have Keeler and Hayes as KPF oriented depth lest we rely on stop and prop Membrey who realistically should be playing Woods role instead of KP. Do you like Owens as the CHF or would you prefer him in midfield? Same with the Pou? Cause as we saw with King out, it was Cordy and Caminiti as KPF and IDGAF what our smalls are doing when we're giving up double figure intercept marks in our I50 per intercept defender, something is broken and not working as intended.

Our issues are in two thirds of the ground, and part of one third is rotational since we junk our HFF's and lack a true CHF or FF depending on where King fits in. Caminiti has added to depth, but he is baby, there is simply no gel in that F50, zero, none, nada.

Part of the problem is that due to no cohesion and only one true KPF in King forward is that we are bleedingly obvious where we are going, and it's why defenders stack on King weekly like they did Roo, only Roo was superhuman and King is fallible. So you have no forwards really moving as we're obvious, why would they when they're not going to get used? It gets intercepted around 60% of the time we enter and straight back out again, why bother presenting to a ball carrier to begin with, just prepare for the pack mark? I don't get why you are excited for the CC depth in KP as the experienced option turned to, so I'll whinge to both mid and forward thanks. Get those boys into midfield rotations.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

All those misses in the first quarter were always gonna come back and bite us. With all the injuries, at least Billings and Jones got through unscathed and performed pretty well. Lots to be frustrated about but certainly lots to like.

Looks like we'll probably finish the round in sixth spot, only one game clear of ninth. Enormous game next weekend against the Suns on the Gold Coast.

 

[Sully111]

You are a tough marker. I thought he was great. He contests every thing and works to find space. His poise and skills will improve but he is showing more than guys like Philippou and probably actually Owens tonight. He’s played about 12 career games at AFL or VFL level. He’s outperforming by heaps.

Maybe I wasn't clear.

I was responding to someone who said he wasn't convinced by him.

I'll say it again, I love the bloke, but I recognise there were a few times where his lack of experience showed. I think those things are easily fixed as he gets more game time and the coaches work with him.

His enthusiasm and attack on the ball are great.

 

[phantom13]

So when the opposition wins the centre clearance you can judge what our attacking side midfielder does. You must have a wide screen telly.
And when he's kicking inside 50 you can see the blocks that do or don't happen for our forwards, the placement of defenders on the TV?
As someone who goes most weeks i reckon you can judge almost * all about the game from the telly. It's the ball carrier, jobe Watson's insights and big footy tropes for viewers at home.

He’s an attacking mid that is rarely seen in the defensive half so when we lose a clearance he’s not doing much.

What do forwards blocking for each other have to do with him? Are you suggesting that his regular butchering of the ball is the fault of forwards not blocking for each other? Cause… nah.

 

[Cairnsman]

You'd be crazy to trade him. We'd be better to fix the midfield to get less reliant on hard work to retain the ball inside 50 and start scoring.

We'd be crazy not to procure a list capable of contending, time will tell but at the moment there are pudits questioning if the King boys are a little overhyped.

Ben was subbed out of his game last night and Max seems injury prone.

As I say time will tell but value for money has to be questioned at some stage.

 

[phantom13]

Gresh, to me, is expectation vs reality.

We all (me included) had expectations he could be DeGoey or Dusty lite and that’s just not happening. At 25 I can’t ever see his foot skills progressing to a point that he can match those guys capabilities. I also think we’ve seen enough know to know he shouldn’t be playing extended midfield minutes. He might get a couple of centre bounces each game but unless he can learn to be a handball first player he’s a liability. He doesn’t work defensively and his first instinct is hack 30m snap. It kills the clearance by being easy to defend. Predominantly forward where his evasiveness and goal sense can be best used.

Alternately if some other team thinks ge can be their dusty/DeGoey then I’m happy to let him go. RFA from memory so if they wanna cough up 800-900+ per year (and I suspect some idiot team will) then let him go, use that to retain or recruit something we need and take the compo.

Gresh has teased us for years now that he’s gonna breakout and maybe (he’s still only 25) he will but I doubt it.

 

[pebblesofsand]

"Gallant" - hate that word.

 

[saintbill]

Re-injured his shoulder in the first 17 seconds of the game. Was in a sling by the end.

Damn it, not good.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Just on the topic of Caminiti.

Did he make some skill errors tonight? Sure did. We saw them live and if in doubt we can always watch the replay and see them again.

However I have seen the same Anthony Caminiti pull off some amazing handballs in previous games. Some lightning handballs through small openings that have lead to goals.

So a bit poor tonight no doubt.

But to suggest he is poorly skilled is just ridiculous.

Just on the topic of Caminiti - lets compare his first season with, I don't know, let say this bloke

Anthony Caminiti and Nick Riewoldt AFL Stats Comparison

Anthony Caminiti and Nick Riewoldt AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com