Review Round 18, 2023 - Melbourne vs. Brisbane Lions

[wattoxi]

In a few days some posters here will see how over the top they are being after that loss. Very reactionary.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Lyons and neale are both aggressive players at stoppages. Mccluggage tried to be defensive but his weak frame couldnt do anything about it.

I truly am pissed about our tackling tonight. Main reason we lost

 

[Sproj]

I agree we are about three players from getting it spot on, just hope Fagan sees it and doesn’t go back to Rich as this would be the total opposite of what we need.

Out: O (at least to give him a rocket), Lyons, Zorko, Gunston
In: Fort, Ah Chee, Dunkley, Dev

That’s all it needs.

 

[McIvor]

That is a lot of players to drop.

I’m not advocating dropping them all, just saying that Fagan has his pets that are never dropped; it’s always the same culprits getting blamed for the teams shortcomings and it’s never a select group of players.

 

[McIvor]

In a few days some posters here will see how over the top they are being after that loss. Very reactionary.

How so when we now blew any chance to finish top two or win at the G. Care to enlighten me how we are any chance of finishing top two after that pathetic choke.

 

[3KZ is Football]

i dont think youve really bothered to read my post

i did not blame lyons personally as the sole culprit behind our lack of defensive effort at stoppage.

but the combination of him, neale and one of ashcroft / mccluggage at stoppage does not work in stopping opposition mids from getting clean clearances and looks in forward 50. i do not see how the games of rayner or berry are relevant to JL when they do not even compete for the same positions.

i dont know why you even bother quoting disposal figures as if its a metric worth judging lyons game on. lester had 16 disposals and he was poor

I’m old fashioned and I tend to rate players on if they can manage to catch, kick and hand pass the ball. If you ain’t touching the ball, then you ain’t helping. Lester was good tonight. Being at the ground gives you a far better perspective. I mentioned Rayner and Berry because they were putrid tonight, but somehow Lyons needs to be dropped? If those two had pulled their weight, we might have had a different result.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I’m not advocating dropping them all, just saying that Fagan has his pets that are never dropped; it’s always the same culprits getting blamed for the teams shortcomings and it’s never a select group of players.

100% Correct.

 

[Elixuh]

Fletcher has been a big surprise. Under 10 games and has shown a hell of a lot.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

I’m old fashioned and I tend to rate players on if they can manage to catch, kick and hand pass the ball. If you ain’t touching the ball, then you ain’t helping. Lester was good tonight. Being at the ground gives you a far better perspective. I mentioned Rayner and Berry because they were putrid tonight, but somehow Lyons needs to be dropped? If those two had pulled their weight, we might have had a different result.

Lester wasnt good tonight. Had a good patch of play for 10 minutes but was ordinary the rest of the match. But you are correct in that there were others that let themselves down.

 

[McIvor]

I’m old fashioned and I tend to rate players on if they can manage to catch, kick and hand pass the ball. If you ain’t touching the ball, then you ain’t helping. Lester was good tonight. Being at the ground gives you a far better perspective. I mentioned Rayner and Berry because they were putrid tonight, but somehow Lyons needs to be dropped? If those two had pulled their weight, we might have had a different result.

People are caught up in Fagan’s rhetoric of only wanting the usual suspects dropped that excludes his pets and untouchables.

 

[3KZ is Football]

i dont think youve really bothered to read my post

i did not blame lyons personally as the sole culprit behind our lack of defensive effort at stoppage.

but the combination of him, neale and one of ashcroft / mccluggage at stoppage does not work in stopping opposition mids from getting clean clearances and looks in forward 50. i do not see how the games of rayner or berry are relevant to JL when they do not even compete for the same positions.

i dont know why you even bother quoting disposal figures as if its a metric worth judging lyons game on. lester had 16 disposals and he was poor

McCluggage shouldn’t even be in the middle, he should be on the wing. Fagan’s coaching was so poor tonight that he had McCluggage, who is All Australian Quality as a wing, playing in the midfield rotation and he had Gunston lining up on Lachie Hunter on the wing. What a poor poor poor piece of coaching that was.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Lester wasnt good tonight. Had a good patch of play for 10 minutes but was ordinary the rest of the match. But you are correct in that there were others that let themselves down.

He looked good from where I was sitting at the ground.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

He looked good from where I was sitting at the ground.

I would never expect you to say otherwise

 

[MacMum]

I agree we are about three players from getting it spot on, just hope Fagan sees it and doesn’t go back to Rich as this would be the total opposite of what we need.

Out: O (at least to give him a rocket), Lyons, Zorko, Gunston
In: Fort, Ah Chee, Dunkley, Dev

That’s all it needs.

Yep...the game was lost at the selection table and the coaching tonight (last night)

..the results are keeping me from sleeping by thinking about it all and how it unfolded.

For once I'm not blaming the players. Oscar, Gunston and Zorko should not have been selected....one area where the coaching staff really need to tighten and toughen up.....and never ever did I think I would say this but Richy doesn't play again. That one pains me because he has been so loyal and loved by us all but he isn't a patch of his former self and most probably won't be again.

Secondly Fagan needs to be down on the boundary in tight games like that to rev the players and give immediate directions etc and I've also thought that perhaps it wasn't his idea to move Gunston or to save the game....maybe it was suggested by the assistants. Who knows, but this loss is on them all.

We play to win to the end and only and I mean only, do we start saving a game when heat is really on and
its in the dying minute....no more. Playing the saving game with approx 5 minutes to go was totally ridiculous and cost us.

The players played to instructions and changes, not much else they could do.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Got to love hearing that one point losses were all based around selection decisions.

 

[MacMum]

Did we play well in the 1st qtr? Did the 3 players mentioned play well? Was it a good move to move Gunston? Did we play to win the game right to the end

or was it the right move to save the game 5mins out from the siren?

...and don't you just love smart a* posters!

 

[Clarkythelion]

I've said it before this year about our team.

When the going got tough - Melbourne's leaders stood up, Gawn and Petraca took the bull by the horns, threw themselves into the battle and did the things that lifted their team mates, gave belief, showed it was possible. Well done them.

When the going got tough - Lions leaders found holes and crawled into them, gave up, hid behind team mates and whinged.

Compared to our great team in the early 2000's we are missing a Michael Voss, we just do not have an on field leader that rises from the trenches and yells, "come on lads follow me, I'll show you the way".

Our Kingdom for a Voss, Selwood, Hodge type.

 

[luthor]

I usually have a good sleep in on Saturday morning but I woke up an hour ago and lay there with the horror show of the last 7 minutes replaying over and over in my head.

The most gutted I think I have ever felt after a loss.I feel like I need therapy

However, the scapegoating of certain players and the coach in this thread is ridiculous. Individually, some of our guys made some very expensive decisions and the coaching may/or may not have been partly to blame. But unless you are privy to some inside info about the instructions given at the last break, you surely can't pin the the loss on the simplistic "let's blame the coach" fallback.

Similarly, pinning the "blame" on individual players is just childish. In any given game, there are going to be two or three players who are contained or just can't get into the game. OR make mistakes that sometimes get punished but sometimes don't. That's footy.

We lost the game in the first 5- 6 minutes AND the last seven. Eight goals at the bookends of the game speaks of a failure as a team in those periods.

The rest of the game we played brilliantly as a TEAM. i didn't follow the match thread very closely but was there any bleating and blaming during the 90% of the game we dominated.?

We're all no doubt feeling emotionally stressed but let's try to be a bit gentle with each other instead of trying to point score with fatuous arguments apportioning blame.

If we think we're suffering, I'm sure our players and coaches are feeling just as a bad, if not worse than we are.

 

[royboys4eva]

Devastating loss. Will put me in a filthy mood for remainder of weekend.

Back at the G and trying to put to bed our hoodoo at the ground and we watched them slam five goals on if first 15 mins. What the hell? We should have been like caged tigers in those opening mins.

Second and third qtrs were some of the best football we have played and was a pleasure to watch at the ground. We actually torched them when they tuned it over. We had better structure behind the ball. However, the devil was in the detail if you looked at the stats at 3/4. Daniher was leading our disposals. Neale couldn't get into the game and with no Dunkley we still looked vulnerable in centre bounce clearances.

I said to my son at 3/4 time we need 2 probably 3 goals in last qtr. Turns out 2 would have been enough! We kicked first and then went defensive and played dumb football. Kicking it to whatever side Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

set up. You can't play that dumb and expect to get away with it. Why was Wilmot kicking in? Needed Kiddy or McKenna.

Dees really put work into blocking and stopping Harris. Was times Melksham just pushed him straight in the back as he went for marks. Umps paid a few free kicks for it but could have paid half dozen really.

Berry and Rayner as has been previously pointed out were awful. Berry is too good a player to be having half a dozen touches - if his shoulder is so bad then he has drop out. Can't carry guys in the finals. Rayner just needs to get his hands on the ball at least 20 times a match. He is high impact when he touches it but not good enough getting under 10 disposals in big games.

Zorko looked like he was hobbling when he came back on in last 5 mins? Another one who if not fit can't play or plays as a sub as impact.

Need Dunkley - Robertson and Ah Chee all back in our best 22.

Petracca played an amazing game but you won't find a bigger head in the game. Pushing blokes over in first 3 mins of a match after kicking a goal is childish. Also, like Dusty because he is so good he doesn't bother with defensive side. He can and was exposed at times.

 

[LionsMaw]

Maybe we need to start wearing Brisbane Lions colours at the MCG to get over the hoodoo.

And rename it the 'Gabba.

 

[mpal6]

Should've could've would've - didn't win though unfortunately.

Bright side- we started in the usual deer in the headlights MCG mode and looked like getting blown away like in round 1. Credit to the team in finding their mojo, clicking to gear and leading by a point by half time. We led by 21 at three quarter and went as high as 26 in Q4. Team now at least knows their best is good enough to break even at MCG.

Down side - there are a million things we can mull over, trying to ice the game too early, players losing their way with changing game plan and tactics, running out of legs due to some older folk etc. Gawn had a dominant game and him setting up first use for their team was another big factor.

Lick our wounds, learn the lessons from both coaches box and amongst playing group - roll on next week.

Losing by a point does hurt badly but its a loss while carrying few old legs and we still came close to a point at MCG. I think we'll be fine.

 

[twhowler]

Fagan should expect some tough questions in the presser around what the gameplan was in that last qtr.
He got absolutely nothing of the sort. As limp as you could imagine. Afl journalists are not real journalists let’s be honest.

He even got a question on how pleased he must have been that Gunston’s 3 goals show he is back! Seriously. And he strongly agreed.

 

[royboys4eva]

Wrong thread for this .... but maybe next year we get Dew in to be Assistant Coach. He might not have worked at Suns but he was highly touted at Swans as an Assistant and maybe like Leppa he is a better assistant than every day coach and all the dramas that go with that.

26 points up in last qtr with 15 mins to go... cannot be losing that with decent coaching team.

 

[Nathan Barley]

In a few days some posters here will see how over the top they are being after that loss. Very reactionary.

It's actually the opposite of reactionary. It's the status quo. We still can't get it done in big games away from home. We're still heading towards a 5th straight failed final serious. We still can't run out games. We still can't defend transition. We still go to sleep in the midfield

Last night didn't change anything and that's the problem

 

[Squizz89]

It's actually the opposite of reactionary. It's the status quo. We still can't get it done in big games away from home. We're still heading towards a 5th straight failed final serious. We still can't run out games. We still can't defend transition. We still go to sleep in the midfield

Last night didn't change anything and that's the problem

Yep. Said last night that the saddest part about the loss, is that it is not surprising at all. The same issues we have from a team and coaching POV that we had when we started climbing the ladder, are still there in 2023.

The days of “learnings” for this team should be long gone, however it appears that is not the case.