Preview Round 2, 2022: Fremantle v St.Kilda - Optus Stadium, Sunday 27th March, 6:20PM AEDT

[bergholt]

But I don’t think we are a top 6 side that can play a consistent finals brand of footy that will get us a flag. We don’t have a midfield that wins contested footy which have to do to win finals

Everything goes right from here we might snag 8th spot

Yeah spot on, we could totally scrape in to finals from here, but it's pretty hard to see how we get good enough to win a final and from there improve further to seriously compete at the pointy end. Like we'd need basically everything to go right.

 

[Premium]

This is very similar to what we went through with Richo.

Get blown away in one quarter, the opposition then slows down with the game under control ... let us win a couple quarters.

The club then takes away the huge positives, some nice tidbits for Richo to ramble on about... wash and repeat for next weeks game.

Sorry but we have vastly greater talent than what Richardson had and after one game you have come up with this.
Being a supporter I'll give them a chance knowing they can improve on that last game.

 

[FQFjt]

Yeah spot on, we could totally scrape in to finals from here, but it's pretty hard to see how we get good enough to win a final and from there improve further to seriously compete at the pointy end. Like we'd need basically everything to go right.

I am pretty negative and do not have high expectations for this season. But, if we do scrape into finals and we have Ryder, Jones, Clark, Billings and Hannebery available (and no further injuries), and while we're dreaming, let's say that we discover Sinclair to be an A grade midfielder, then I think we can match any team on our day. But I do not expect this to happen.

 

[Premium]

I am pretty negative and do not have high expectations for this season. But, if we do scrape into finals and we have Ryder, Jones, Clark, Billings and Hannebery available (and no further injuries), and while we're dreaming, let's say that we discover Sinclair to be an A grade midfielder, then I think we can match any team on our day. But I do not expect this to happen.

It all comes down to at least breaking even in the midfield , last Friday that didn't happen.
If we can fix that problem anything is possible.

 

[MordySaint]

Sorry but we have vastly greater talent than what Richardson had and after one game you have come up with this.
Being a supporter I'll give them a chance knowing they can improve on that last game.

Our midfield looks vastly weaker to what Richo had.

St Kilda Playing List for 2017 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

That's what wins games period.

 

[Circus]

Well they need coaches to make leads obviously. It’s not one individual. There are plans and style. Everything you have just proves that you need coaches. If it was a one on one sport maybe you could away without a coach. I know you obviously understand the sport but you were the one who said you wondered why they need coaches. We keep changing coaches yet people find the same issues. I think the problem is simpler than that but harder to fix. The list is an average list. One star tells us that.

Plugger, you seem like a gem of a bloke to me and are certainly an astute Saints observer. However, you have missed my point entirely. I am asking why we are not being coached to play a game plan that, among many other things, encourages players to lead when we have the ball. Even average players must have done that since childhood, otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted. Why don't our blokes do it much? Is it not a time honoured method of spreading the opposition's defence, even if the decision has been made to bomb it long?

And please don't think this is the only aspect of our game that worries me, or that I'm fixated on. I don't believe a great game plan requires a team of A grade players. There is absolutely no reason to not have a really effective style of play that suits the cattle we've got. Something is wrong with how we are going about it.

For the first time I'm beginning to doubt Ratts ability to coach at this level. For instance, many supporters on this site have complained for years about the number of half-back flanker types we've got. Why then would you play a very good winger at half back when we have other good choices there? It is very difficult to get Hill to deliver the ball neatly to a forward, in the forward 50, from half back. It could happen a dozen time a game from the wing, but only a couple of times from half back. It mystifies me and creates doubt about the positional play of other players where its not nearly so obvious as this. Buggered if I know!!

 

[bergholt]

And please don't think this is the only aspect of our game that worries me, or that I'm fixated on. I don't believe a great game plan requires a team of A grade players. There is absolutely no reason to not have a really effective style of play that suits the cattle we've got. Something is wrong with how we are going about it.

Tend to agree but my impression is that they're overthinking it. They want to build a game style that stands up in finals, so they don't rely on hitting up targets and leads, but kicking long to contests, because that's often what you need to do in big games. Sort of vaguely makes some sense in theory but doesn't look like we're going to get to finals playing this style.

 

[lewdogs]

I am pretty negative and do not have high expectations for this season. But, if we do scrape into finals and we have Ryder, Jones, Clark, Billings and Hannebery available (and no further injuries), and while we're dreaming, let's say that we discover Sinclair to be an A grade midfielder, then I think we can match any team on our day. But I do not expect this to happen.

That's it, come over to the glass half full side.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

That’s crazy talk

It’s bad when even what should be a reasonable suggestion sounds like taking the piss

 

[FQFjt]

That's it, come over to the glass half full side.

My heart says yes, but brain says no.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sorry but we have vastly greater talent than what Richardson had and after one game you have come up with this.
Being a supporter I'll give them a chance knowing they can improve on that last game.

Better, not sure if "vaaastly" better.

Steele vs Steven 2016 : Steele
Crouch vs Montagna 2016 : Montagna
Current Ross vs 2016 Ross : 2016 Ross.
Hill vs Newnes : Hill but Newnes got more of the ball.
Armitage slowing down vs Mostly injured Jones -- good to have your players actually play. Armitage.
Riewoldt 2016 vs King. 2021 King very similar output ( except Rooey did tonnes around the ground ), King has the opportunity to make himself the leader.
Savage vs Sinclair. Sinclair has passed him.
Weller vs Kent : An old stuffed toy my dog has. No, Weller 2016 was OK.
Billings vs Billings -- He has improved a little.
Roberton vs Wilkie Wow, hard call, i'd go Wilkie. Surprisingly i find it easier to compare Roberton to Hill.
Gilbert vs Battle Gilbert.
Geary vs Paton, Paton gets the nod, but it wouldn't be so clear on a week by week basis.
Dunston vs Clark They have the opposite deficiencies.
Acres vs Higgins. I think Higgins.
Gresham vs Gresham. He's better now.
Hickey vs Ryder/Hayes LOL
Dempster vs Coffield Dempster.
Membrey vs Membrey : Current Membrey is a bit better but doesn't have as much upside
Bruce vs Marshall : Marshall but not in terms of total goals kicked. ( in 2016 we had 3 tall forwards kicking around 40 goals each, nice setup ).
Fisher vs Highmore : Fisher
Webster vs Webster : He seems to be less injury prone now, knock on wood.
Minchington vs Byrnes or Bytel : Minchington but only against Geelong.
Lonie vs Butler : Butler.

 

[Vimal Anand]

Fremantle by 50+

Ratts sacked by round 5, Richo caretaker

Even we are not that confident.. most probably will be a close game

On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BrutThough]

Gee what we would give for Tom Hickey to be back at the club... rucking like he does for Sydney.

Another one of Sir Lethleans changes to our club when he arrived for the big clean out.

Why? Ruck is the area of the ground we have best covered.

Seems like you just wanted another crack at Lethlean more than thinking Hickey should be rucking over Marshall.

 

[Premium]

Better, not sure if "vaaastly" better.

Steele vs Steven 2016 : Steele
Crouch vs Montagna 2016 : Montagna
Current Ross vs 2016 Ross : 2016 Ross.
Hill vs Newnes : Hill but Newnes got more of the ball.
Armitage slowing down vs Mostly injured Jones -- good to have your players actually play. Armitage.
Riewoldt 2016 vs King. 2021 King very similar output ( except Rooey did tonnes around the ground ), King has the opportunity to make himself the leader.
Savage vs Sinclair. Sinclair has passed him.
Weller vs Kent : An old stuffed toy my dog has. No, Weller 2016 was OK.
Billings vs Billings -- He has improved a little.
Roberton vs Wilkie Wow, hard call, i'd go Wilkie. Surprisingly i find it easier to compare Roberton to Hill.
Gilbert vs Battle Gilbert.
Geary vs Paton, Paton gets the nod, but it wouldn't be so clear on a week by week basis.
Dunston vs Clark They have the opposite deficiencies.
Acres vs Higgins. I think Higgins.
Gresham vs Gresham. He's better now.
Hickey vs Ryder/Hayes LOL
Dempster vs Coffield Dempster.
Membrey vs Membrey : Current Membrey is a bit better but doesn't have as much upside
Bruce vs Marshall : Marshall but not in terms of total goals kicked. ( in 2016 we had 3 tall forwards kicking around 40 goals each, nice setup ).
Fisher vs Highmore : Fisher
Webster vs Webster : He seems to be less injury prone now, knock on wood.
Minchington vs Byrnes or Bytel : Minchington but only against Geelong.
Lonie vs Butler : Butler.

Richardson was ejected in 2019 --- coached from 2014 to 2019
The cupboard was bare when he left - McCartin had his problems , Roberton had his for a few years , Steven same , Dempster had his last season 2016 , Sam Fisher last season 2016 and only played 12 games and Riewoldt and Montagna were gone.

2016 was most probably Richardsons best season because Armitage had his best season ( after that his back had cratered ) with Steven , Roo and Montagna were still damaging , Gilbert was fit .
2016 we managed 9th missed the 8 by % to the Roos.

 

[Premium]

Why? Ruck is the area of the ground we have best covered.

Seems like you just wanted another crack at Lethlean more than thinking Hickey should be rucking over Marshall.

When Hickey was with us nobody care to much for him and Marshall has him covered.

 

[The Punter]

The really good Armo year was 2015.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Marshall absolutely murdered him when we played Sydney last year.

Can't see why we would want Hickey now

 

[Premium]

The really good Armo year was 2015.

Did we get 9th that yr too.

 

[The Punter]

Did we get 9th that yr too.

14th.

 

[Saintbloke]

After all this time and opportunities for smart recruiting and development, in 2022 we are hoping that the return of a 34yo ruckman with a dodgy achilles is going to turn the team around, while waiting an another onballer past his prime with dodgy legs to get better and that will save our midfield, with another recruit past his prime trying to be a half back. What an unproductive decade we have had.

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

I should have checked out while standing against the fence at the intraclub. Wasn’t impressed at all by what I saw, got the feeling then that we weren’t going to win too many games of football - that was prior to the latest few best 22 players going down i.e Hunts, Jones, Billings, Bytel.

Going to be a long year, seriously disappointed already. Geez, we all went hard on the melts after one round didn’t we buncha’ losers the lot of us !!!

 

[plugger66]

Plugger, you seem like a gem of a bloke to me and are certainly an astute Saints observer. However, you have missed my point entirely. I am asking why we are not being coached to play a game plan that, among many other things, encourages players to lead when we have the ball. Even average players must have done that since childhood, otherwise they wouldn't have been drafted. Why don't our blokes do it much? Is it not a time honoured method of spreading the opposition's defence, even if the decision has been made to bomb it long?

And please don't think this is the only aspect of our game that worries me, or that I'm fixated on. I don't believe a great game plan requires a team of A grade players. There is absolutely no reason to not have a really effective style of play that suits the cattle we've got. Something is wrong with how we are going about it.

For the first time I'm beginning to doubt Ratts ability to coach at this level. For instance, many supporters on this site have complained for years about the number of half-back flanker types we've got. Why then would you play a very good winger at half back when we have other good choices there? It is very difficult to get Hill to deliver the ball neatly to a forward, in the forward 50, from half back. It could happen a dozen time a game from the wing, but only a couple of times from half back. It mystifies me and creates doubt about the positional play of other players where its not nearly so obvious as this. Buggered if I know!!

Firstly hill was struggling last year on wing. We all saw it. At hb he was much better. It would have been hard to move based on that. As for leading well not many club get the players to lead these days. Membery can lead out and does get it on the lead. As I said last year king isn’t a natural leader to the ball. He wasn’t in juniors. I’ve seen them train and they try and teach to lead but with slow ball movement and no pace he struggles to do it. They are certainly trained to lead but like 17 other clubs the bail out is the high ball. King doesn’t get out marked at all but unfortunately the smalls are struggling. If Higgins kicks 4 goals last week people would be saying the high ball is ok but 4 behinds makes it look like it isn’t. I think people need to realise leading is now not a common thing for any side. If it was there be 100 goal kickers. Unlike it seems most on here our number one problem is lack of ability in the midfield not the coach. Even a great midfield like dogs doesn’t mean naughton gets many on the lead. He still gets most of his from contested marks.

 

[Sun Ra]

Firstly hill was struggling last year on wing. We all saw it. At hb he was much better. It would have been hard to move based on that. As for leading well not many club get the slave to lead these days. Membery can lead out and does get it on the lead. As I said last year king isn’t a natural leader to the ball. He wasn’t in juniors. I’ve seen them train and they try and teach to lead but with so ball movement and no pace he struggles to do it. They are certainly trained to lead but like 17 other clubs the bail out is the high ball. King doesn’t get out marked at all but unfortunately the smalls are struggling. If Higgins kicks 4 goals last week people would be saying the high ball is ok but 4 behinds makes it look like it isn’t. I think people need to realise leading is now not a common thing for any side. If it was there be 100 goal kickers. Unlike it seems most on here our number one problem is lack of ability in the midfield not the coach. Even a great midfield like dogs doesn’t mean naughton gets many on the lead. He still gets most of his from contested marks.

Totally agree Plugger which is why I reckon Hayes is gold for us. He has the almost extinct talent of being able to read the ball off the boot of the kicker better than those around him. Maybe explains Sharman as well. Playing in a B grade league with B grade people kicking it at you, you have to find a way.
It is an actual thing....people have forgotten this skill. A real old fashioned footballer.

EDIT - George Young was the best I've seen at this at St Kilda. Milne was also pretty instinctive in this area. Gives a millisecond advantage over your opponent and, hey presto.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Maybe explains Sharman as well. Playing in a B grade league with B grade people kicking it at you, you have to find a way.
It is an actual thing....people have forgotten this skill. A real old fashioned footballer.

Dermie after we faced freo last year, went in depth about how Sharman leads and reads the ball.

From memory he talked about how Sharman does these little movements that get the defenders off balance because he is just reading the flight of the ball to perfeftion.

 

[FQFjt]

Dermie after we faced freo last year, went in depth about how Sharman leads and reads the ball.

From memory he talked about how Sharman does these little movements that get the defenders off balance because he is just reading the flight of the ball to perfeftion.

But according to Jake Batchelor his aerial contest skills need work to match the way we play.