Preview Round 2, 2022: Fremantle v St.Kilda - Optus Stadium, Sunday 27th March, 6:20PM AEDT

[MordySaint]

Why? Ruck is the area of the ground we have best covered.

Seems like you just wanted another crack at Lethlean more than thinking Hickey should be rucking over Marshall.

Not true, Marshall has no backup. This was exposed all last year which is why we have been topping up with Hunter, Campbell etc

Ryder is a genius and an absolute master of his craft but its pretty obvious he is in the final stages of his career.

Hickey is an excellent tap ruckman, ruck forward and was my favourite ruck at St Kilda for a long time. His career was stifled by Richardson but that is no reason to jettison a quality player for nothing.

Lethlean has come in and made his own choices from day ONE, he needs to be judged on them. If you think people in authority make the right decisions all the time then that is just misguided.

 

[Ads734]

But according to Jake Batchelor his aerial contest skills need work to match the way we play.

They hate Sharman because he makes shit easy and looks laconic.

 

[Plugger35]

I should have checked out while standing against the fence at the intraclub. Wasn’t impressed at all by what I saw, got the feeling then that we weren’t going to win too many games of football - that was prior to the latest few best 22 players going down i.e Hunts, Jones, Billings, Bytel.

Going to be a long year, seriously disappointed already. Geez, we all went hard on the melts after one round didn’t we buncha’ losers the lot of us !!!

It was a deflating loss on Friday night but not totally unexpected considering the players we had missing, particular from the midfield where we got beaten and which was a major reason why we lost. If we can get those missing players back sooner rather than later I think we can still play finals.

The most disappointing part of the loss was the lack of skills and cohesion with the same old bomb it in and hope forward 50 entries but it was only one game and it's too early to know if that will be an ongoing pattern or a one off aberration. Hopefully we see some improvement in those areas against Freo.

 

[gringo2011]

It all comes down to at least breaking even in the midfield , last Friday that didn't happen.
If we can fix that problem anything is possible.

I think that's where Dunstan hurts, he was usually our best or second best clearance mid in the second half of the year, if he was quiet it was usually a player sitting on him and that still left room for Steele to break away. When you get Jones or another mid like Crouch playing well you make it hard for sides to hold you. Gresham and Sinclair need to cover for for Jones and Dunny.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Richardson was ejected in 2019 --- coached from 2014 to 2019
The cupboard was bare when he left - McCartin had his problems , Roberton had his for a few years , Steven same , Dempster had his last season 2016 , Sam Fisher last season 2016 and only played 12 games and Riewoldt and Montagna were gone.

2016 was most probably Richardsons best season because Armitage had his best season ( after that his back had cratered ) with Steven , Roo and Montagna were still damaging , Gilbert was fit .
2016 we managed 9th missed the 8 by % to the Roos.

I purposely chose that year.
Roo retired and Trout's replacement left the game with concussion. Was just lucky that Trout's full back, Bruce turned out to be a forward...because Trout...he was no full back.
Montagna, Fisher and Gilbert retired.
Koby Steven was brought in, to at least do part of the work Armitage did left the game , concussion.
Dempster retired , Concussion.
Jack Steven had his issues.

Richardson was not the recruiter. He asked for a "Rioli" type. He was given Long. ( Though i disagree that a Rioli was what the team needed most ).
He was constantly fighting to replace the top end talent that was leaving the club.

 

[Plugger35]

I think that's where Dunstan hurts, he was usually our best or second best clearance mid in the second half of the year, if he was quiet it was usually a player sitting on him and that still left room for Steele to break away. When you get Jones or another mid like Crouch playing well you make it hard for sides to hold you. Gresham and Sinclair need to cover for for Jones and Dunny.

Dunstan would sure be handy now with all our missing midfielders, he'd be more of a chance of getting games for us with our bad luck with injuries than with Melbourne who have had a charmed run with injuries the last year or so and which is one of the reasons they won a flag last year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It would have been crazy to keep all of Hickey , Longer and Marshall.

The StKilda curse says that if we traded Longer and kept Hickey, 28YO Longer would now be an above average ruck, and Hickey would have been hit by lighting.

 

[Joffaboy]

Dunstan would sure be handy now with all our missing midfielders, he'd be more of a chance of getting games for us with our bad luck with injuries than with Melbourne who have had a charmed run with injuries the last year or so and which is one of the reasons they won a flag last year.

We have Dunstan we probably don't have Hayes.

 

[BrutThough]

Not true, Marshall has no backup. This was exposed all last year which is why we have been topping up with Hunter, Campbell etc

Ryder is a genius and an absolute master of his craft but its pretty obvious he is in the final stages of his career.

Hickey is an excellent tap ruckman, ruck forward and was my favourite ruck at St Kilda for a long time. His career was stifled by Richardson but that is no reason to jettison a quality player for nothing.

Lethlean has come in and made his own choices from day ONE, he needs to be judged on them. If you think people in authority make the right decisions all the time then that is just misguided.

Except Hickey wasnt a quality player. He was an average rucks who performances see-sawed widely every year. I know it is easy to blame Richoardson for everything, but it took Hickey 4 clubs and until the age of 30 to consistently play decent footy. And it wasnt even as if he achieved consistency at the club we traded him too.

We've ended up with a better ruckman then who we traded out, and there is a very real timeline where Marshall never becomes a ruckman if we kept Hickey so it's been a win for us all round.

 

[jwikked]

I'm starting to come around on the idea of few changes for this game. Kent out for Sharman. I'd put NWM in the team and have Owens as sub.
I think it would be worth taking Owens on the road. Yeah, it'll mean he doesn't play VFL, there's always next week for that.

I don't think dropping Byrnes, Higgins, etc would achieve much at this stage, let's give the team another game to show what they've been doing all pre-season. For all we know, it could have been a one off failure.

Ratten absolutely needs to be tough on the senior players this year, if they're not performing they need to play VFL until they put together a good performance (or two) before coming back into the team. Best 22 should be earned, not given. All that aside, I don't think end of round 1 is a good time to be making mass changes. IF we serve up the same stuff against Freo, by all means drop 4 or 5, I just don't see the value in it this week.

 

[gringo2011]

We have Dunstan we probably don't have Hayes.

Hard to know. Maybe no Peris or Kyle even.

 

[bird_man]

Our midfield looks vastly weaker to what Richo had.

St Kilda Playing List for 2017 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

That's what wins games period.

Not sure how our current midfield is vastly weaker now than under Richo

At least now we have one elite mid. Steele was just a plodding tagger back then.

 

[MordySaint]

Except Hickey wasnt a quality player. He was an average rucks who performances see-sawed widely every year. I know it is easy to blame Richoardson for everything, but it took Hickey 4 clubs and until the age of 30 to consistently play decent footy. And it wasnt even as if he achieved consistency at the club we traded him too.

We've ended up with a better ruckman then who we traded out, and there is a very real timeline where Marshall never becomes a ruckman if we kept Hickey so it's been a win for us all round.

I would take it as a credit to our development staff that we have provided the number 1 ruckman to three of our competitors:

Hickey: Sydney
Stanley: Geelong
McEvoy: Hawthorn

And we are struggling to win the centre clearances

 

[lewdogs]

I would take it as a credit to our development staff that we have provided the number 1 ruckman to three of our competitors:

Hickey: Sydney
Stanley: Geelong
McEvoy: Hawthorn

And we are struggling to win the centre clearances

Rucks are the least of our worries. We have two that are better than all of those.

 

[MordySaint]

Rucks are the least of our worries. We have two that are better than all of those.

I disagree.

Our midfield is the problem and our midfield is driven by the ruckman.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Not true, Marshall has no backup. This was exposed all last year which is why we have been topping up with Hunter, Campbell etc

Damn, here I was thinking we had Jack Hayes on our list and that he’d just had what was ranked the 5th best debut game since 2000 the other night, in the backup ruck role, but I must have dreamed it.

 

[BrutThough]

I disagree.

Our midfield is the problem and our midfield is driven by the ruckman.

But our ruckman is a better player than Hickey is.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Kent is first out for me. 4 touches and 1 tackle simply isn't good enough for any player let alone a 28 year old.

Out, never to be seen again.

 

[MordySaint]

Damn, here I was thinking we had Jack Hayes on our list and that he’d just had what was ranked the 5th best debut game since 2000 the other night, in the backup ruck role, but I must have dreamed it.

Sorry, he's a quality player and certainly an amazing recruit... but AFL ruckman I don't think so.

If I had the choice he would be the first picked, Wing, CHF, CHB, FF. He gives his all and has all the skills, but he just doesn't have the 200cm+ and tap skills required from a number 1 ruckman.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Curious as to why NMM wasn't selected over Owens against Collingwood- surely the number one recruit gets a game first up over an academy kid..I think most other clubs give their no.1 pick a game? What's the thinking down at Moorabbin so far- seems to be a bit of desperation or confusion..or dumbness...dunno.

It was positional, surely? We need mid cover.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Sorry, he's a quality player and certainly an amazing recruit... but AFL ruckman I don't think so.

If I had the choice he would be the first picked, Wing, CHF, CHB, FF. He gives his all and has all the skills, but he just doesn't have the 200cm+ and tap skills required from a number 1 ruckman.

Who said he does, you said we had no “backup” for Marshall. Marshall is the no. 1. Hayes was his backup and was voted 3rd or 4th best on ground.

 

[tomjoad]

Kent and Byrnes out.
Owens keeps his spot.
Highmore, NWM, or Sharman in.
Sharman if he makes the cut can surely work on his aerial stuff in the seniors where he can lead, mark (on his chest if needs be) and kick goals...y'know, basic forward stuff.

 

[MordySaint]

Who said he does, you said we had no “backup” for Marshall. Marshall is the no. 1. Hayes was his backup and was voted 3rd or 4th best on ground.

Hayes is a utility, you could literally play him anywhere.

If we had a backup for Marshall and also a decent tap ruckman, it would improve our midfielders immensely as they know where to spread, collect and distribute.

Why do you think that Ryder is so valuable and why the media are coming up with all these crazy ideas like King to ruck?

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

I disagree.

Our midfield is the problem and our midfield is driven by the ruckman.

Well see that’s where you’re wrong.
We have 2 of the best rucks in the game and a Brownlow potential mid. After that we have nothing.

 

[MordySaint]

Well see that’s where you’re wrong.
We have 2 of the best rucks in the game and a Brownlow potential mid. After that we have nothing.

Also we have the best midfielder in the competition in Hannebery.

If they aren't on the park then it means nothing.