Autopsy Round 21, 2023: St.Kilda v Carlton

[gringo2011]

Did you glance at game time ? 20 possessions 10 tackles Clark wasn‘t our problem.

He's a great user but he's so slow and liability when we don't have the ball. He can't play a full game on ball without looking gassed. He's at the cross roads.

 

[StCicatriz]

Did you glance at game time ? 20 possessions 10 tackles Clark wasn‘t our problem.

he's had 5 contested possessions... 1 more than brad hill. you can't demand time on ball as an inside mid if you can't compete and win the ball. he's bullied around the contest and i dont see that changing anytime soon at his age.

care to read the clearance stats?

 

[Joffaboy]

I’m not that despondent yet. I think we are half built but can’t make any mistakes from here.

That is why I am so pessimistic. Our trading has been good the last couple of years.
But the AFL cuts us off by the knees by changing rules (no McKenzie to add to Pou while finalists get Ugle-Hagen, now allowing GC 3 academy players in the top ten to be drafted, North to get priority picks plus a young bloke from the academy etc etc etc).
We were terrible drafting for years, we finally get hope and the governing body skewes the draft so much we won't get a chance to complete the build.
And because of that we are always midtable, not able to get good dp's or high quality trades.
I think it is a disaster. The AFL must have spent 200 mill on GC and established clubs still need to suffer and never go forward because the backslappers at the AFL keep throwing good money after bad.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TheNewEnsign]

I don't really want to wade through pages of melts, but did RtB address the Steele / Crouch lack of Q4 possessions? Were they running hard tags, getting tagged or something?

It was a deflating game to watch all the way through, but if a handful of key moments had gone our way / been different and we'd somehow scraped a win, the Monday morning narrative would 100% be 'This is the blueprint for dealing with Curnow' and 'Where was Cripps?'.

 

[gringo2011]

Enough of the doom and gloom people.

We knew our midfield was ordinary and Im confident we will add to that area in the off season.

We lost to a very strong list who previously had been under performing. We all wanted the club to play finals but the reality might be we just dont yet have the talent.

Yes it may be another wasted season, but Im confident RTB will have us on the right path!

If we look shit it's hard to attract players in. If you could play at the Dogs or Brisbane why would you want the Saints. I'd stay at Gold Coast if I was Flanders.

 

[gringo2011]

That is why I am so pessimistic. Our trading has been good the last couple of years.
But the AFL cuts us off by the knees by changing rules (no McKenzie to add to Pou while finalists get Ugle-Hagen, now allowing GC 3 academy players in the top ten to be drafted, North to get priority picks plus a young bloke from the academy etc etc etc).
We were terrible drafting for years, we finally get hope and the governing body skewes the draft so much we won't get a chance to complete the build.
And because of that we are always midtable, not able to get good dp's or high quality trades.
I think it is a disaster. The AFL must have spent 200 mill on GC and established clubs still need to suffer and never go forward because the backslappers at the AFL keep throwing good money after bad.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

North is the one that hurts most. They deliberately cut hard and made their own bed. At least the northern academies have to work hard to attract players in to their clubs and develop them from other codes. We never got priority picks despite being absolute shit.

 

[Yawkey way]

He's a great user but he's so slow and liability when we don't have the ball. He can't play a full game on ball without looking gassed. He's at the cross roads.

You know I think that’s just something that’s caught on here. He wasn’t considered slow at tac level and I’ve posted the distance he covered during games a couple of years ago pre injury and he was in our top few. I have no idea why he only played 67% but maybe he’s still carrying a knee, track watchers commented on it being bandaged at training. Anyway if he’s at a crossroads we have plenty who are long past there’s, Imo Clark isn’t our problem and is comfortably in our best 22. I’m not moving him on, or coffield or Paton who at his best had the measure of the games best small forwards and again will be better for another preseason. Just as a matter of interest coffield tested very well over 20 metres at the combine comfortably in the top 10 and just behind him was Paton.

 

[SteeleSaints]

If we look s**t it's hard to attract players in. If you could play at the Dogs or Brisbane why would you want the Saints. I'd stay at Gold Coast if I was Flanders.

Again why all the doom & gloom?

We were playing the most attractive footy in the competition at the start of the year Im sure the club can sell that. Plus $$$ the Saints have room in the cap and he would be close to the No 1 mid at the Moorabin. We are going to have to pay above the going rate but thats fine for a quality midfielder.

 

[Yawkey way]

he's had 5 contested possessions... 1 more than brad hill. you can't demand time on ball as an inside mid if you can't compete and win the ball. he's bullied around the contest and i dont see that changing anytime soon at his age.

care to read the clearance stats?

I looked at the stats, more importantly I actually watched the game and I’ll repeat what I said Clark Imo wasn’t our problem he was quite good.

 

[BigMonty]

Few random points after yesterday.
Acres kicks a goal on the last after running from a contest at wing breaks 4 tackles and kick a goal.

Blues stacked the corridor after half time and let's us screw around the outside and we were not good enough bringing in fwd 50.

Our entries inside 50 were marred with poor decisions poor disposal and just bad luck. We should have scored 4 more goals with the entries...Carlton TDK goal fluke, number of hack kicks marked by them inside 50 ours also were marked by them.

Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

was an excellent contributor all day won marking contests fwd and back beat Acres so they switch wings and he played on Byrnes....enough said there.

Second quarter Sinclair attack on the ball and then delivery inside 50...smacks of captaincy material. Make it so.

If we had Billings kicking instead of Gresham we would have scored 3 more goals.

Jury out on Clarke.

We stopped running in the last and just could not get the ball over centre nor could we get our hands on it from clearances.

Think NWM has gone past Hill.

We simply need better and more mids.



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[bird_man]

how many time did Clark touch it when the ball was mostly in carltons front half? he should have had a tonne of it. this narrative that he's just not getting there because the coaches arent backing him is utter trash. he aint getting it done because Clark is horribly inconsistent.

he's never going to be the midfielder you think he is. just like jones never got there. just like zac williams wont.

this idea that the coaches held him back on the weekend at the detriment of the club trying to play finals is absurd. why would they do that? and how does that colerate to clark going missing in the 4th qtr?

Clark had 5 contested posessions the lowest of the midfield bar Brad Hill who plays HFF/Wing. He had 1 clearance equal to brad Hill and Caminiti. if you have a look at his stats you will see he was getting a run through the center in the first two halves, he was ineffective and did not win clearance, nor the contested ball. so they've moved him out of there and he's attended 1 center ball each qtr. he's been moved out because he didnt get it done.

if you're going to break those stats down you need to mention the clearances he was won stoppage vs center plus his contested ball numbers. getting cheap possesion on the outside isn't what we need him in the side for.

We lost the game because we got smashed in contested ball and clearance again and Clark was a big part of that.

Just stating the facts mate

He was very good in the first half when he was playing in the midfield

16 touches when he had the 10 centre bounce attendances

Maybe it was a coincidence but it was the second half when we were completely smashed in the midfield he wasn't there.

Maybe it suits your narrative to blame pat of the loss on Clark but the fact is our 3 most experienced were backed in there in the last qtr, not him. One had 4 touches the other two had 0.

 

[Yawkey way]

Just for the record clearly slow, gassed etc may be somewhat exaggerated, I have no doubt he’s carrying an injury the same as Steele.

 

[Joffaboy]

Just stating the facts mate

He was very good in the first half when he was playing in the midfield

16 touches when he had the 10 centre bounce attendances

Maybe it was a coincidence but it was the second half when we were completely smashed in the midfield he wasn't there.

Maybe it suits your narrative to blame pat of the loss on Clark but the fact is our 3 most experienced were backed in there in the last qtr, not him. One had 4 touches the other two had 0.

Moving Clark out, then moving Owens out then replacing a forward with a back pocket, no wonder we only managed a goal in a half of football.

Clark and Owens were both big contributers to our mids in the first. When the game was there to be won Steele and Crouch (who had carried the mids for three quarters so I cut a bit of slack there) get donuts for possessions.

 

[Sully111]

We were playing three tall forwards and Mason was getting the ball near the wing and trying to move the ball quickly - one of them should have been in the general vicinity.

Its on them (and the coaching staff) that they weren't not Mason for kicking to where they should have been.

He laced the ball out straight to opposition players

It seems to be an area some people don't care about, but our ability to hit targets has been our biggest issue for a decade. It kills our momentum time and time again.

Nobody is questioning his effort

 

[Ads734]

Imagine if we'd got more than just King and Wilkie as a potential A graders or elite from 3 draft/trade periods. Basically turned a lot of players into picks to get into those drafts/trades too. Higgins the only other almost player from all of those moves.

Think we should’ve kept hind and stuck with him at HB not at half forward. Would be exactly what we need.

 

[Joffaboy]

He laced the ball out straight to opposition players

It seems to be an area some people don't care about, but our ability to hit targets has been our biggest issue for a decade. It kills our momentum time and time again.

Nobody is questioning his effort

Carlton were good, stopped Nas getting the ball and didn't mind Wood who continually turned it over. Kudo's to Carlton planning.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

View attachment 1767294
Just for the record clearly slow, gassed etc may be somewhat exaggerated, I have no doubt he’s carrying an injury the same as Steele.

I like clark and havent really followed the back and forth, but the quarters were a fair bit shorter in 2020, different type of running no?

 

[SteeleSaints]

Moving Clark out, then moving Owens out then replacing a forward with a back pocket, no wonder we only managed a goal in a half of football.

Clark and Owens were both big contributers to our mids in the first. When the game was there to be won Steele and Crouch (who had carried the mids for three quarters so I cut a bit of slack there) get donuts for possessions.

The coaches didnt make the changes just for fun, it was because after half time we were getting slaughtered around the contest. Carlton won first use and their HBF flankers had a field day running off their mids. Clark was getting sliced up playing on Carltons 3rd string mid and giving us nothing on the outside. They moved him back to bring in Sinclair which for the first time in a while Sinc's had no impact.

Our midfield always struggle when there is speed on the game and Carltons intensity and run used them like witches hats. RTB threw the mids around to try and equalise the contest but nothing worked.

Owens has been off the past couple of weeks, probably as previously mentioned he is playing injured. RTB & Misson have priors for playing players who should be out injured and I think it is repeating itself again this year. Even so its not time to burn the house down, we just have to accept that our list is not up to it. At least then the club can do something about it.

I understand some think he is worth keeping but if Hunter Clark attracts interest he should be traded for his and the clubs best interests.

 

[Yawkey way]

I like clark and havent really followed the back and forth, but the quarters were a fair bit shorter in 2020, different type of running no?

You’d think the pace would be higher given the shorter quarters but clearly clark when fit and injury free has no problem covering the ground. Clark, coffield and Paton all need to be retained and hopefully they are all fit and injury free to start next season.

 

[gringo2011]

You know I think that’s just something that’s caught on here. He wasn’t considered slow at tac level and I’ve posted the distance he covered during games a couple of years ago pre injury and he was in our top few. I have no idea why he only played 67% but maybe he’s still carrying a knee, track watchers commented on it being bandaged at training. Anyway if he’s at a crossroads we have plenty who are long past there’s, Imo Clark isn’t our problem and is comfortably in our best 22. I’m not moving him on, or coffield or Paton who at his best had the measure of the games best small forwards and again will be better for another preseason. Just as a matter of interest coffield tested very well over 20 metres at the combine comfortably in the top 10 and just behind him was Paton.

Half the list is ordinary so that might save him. He’s 25 though, if he doesn’t lock down a spot he should be on the chopping block.

 

[Ads734]

He's a great user but he's so slow and liability when we don't have the ball. He can't play a full game on ball without looking gassed. He's at the cross roads.

It’s fairly clear to me that Clark takes a while to completely get back from injuries. Every game back gets better and better imo. It’s about whether he can sustain it ever I think he can

 

[The Punter]

The main problem with Clark yesterday was the same as almost the entire team: he was good when everyone else was good.

That's why I gave Wood my BOG for yesterday - he kept going when things got tough

 

[bird_man]

The coaches didnt make the changes just for fun, it was because after half time we were getting slaughtered around the contest. Carlton won first use and their HBF flankers had a field day running off their mids. Clark was getting sliced up playing on Carltons 3rd string mid and giving us nothing on the outside. They moved him back to bring in Sinclair which for the first time in a while Sinc's had no impact.

Our midfield always struggle when there is speed on the game and Carltons intensity and run used them like witches hats. RTB threw the mids around to try and equalise the contest but nothing worked.

Owens has been off the past couple of weeks, probably as previously mentioned he is playing injured. RTB & Misson have priors for playing players who should be out injured and I think it is repeating itself again this year. Even so its not time to burn the house down, we just have to accept that our list is not up to it. At least then the club can do something about it.

I understand some think he is worth keeping but if Hunter Clark attracts interest he should be traded for his and the clubs best interests.

Owens was terrific in the first half. Definitely didn’t look injured. I think he has 10 contested possessions in the half.

Clark only went in for one centre bounce in the 3rd qtr so I’m not sure he even had enough time in the to get slaughtered by the Carlton mids, but even if he did in the very short amount of time, it was probably worth giving him another crack at some stage due to the fact that all our other mids were awful.

I think we thought the old guys could get the job done and they just couldn’t

 

[Yawkey way]

Half the list is ordinary so that might save him. He’s 25 though, if he doesn’t lock down a spot he should be on the chopping block.

I‘d love to see Clark, coffield and Paton all fit and in the side round one. They‘re all talented and have proven that at their best we picked well. We lack talent, we need to get rid of the guys who simply will never be anything more than very ordinary players not the guys who can actually play. Also he’s 24 gringo turns 25 next March, I’m not moving out anyone 25 or under unless it’s for overs.

It was a lousy loss and has sunk any thought of finals, it’s frustrating watching other sides load up on talent while we have one first rounder. I get all that and it’s driving me mad as well but now is the time for cool heads, we simply can’t afford to get this off-season wrong.

 

[BrutThough]

I‘d love to see Clark, coffield and Paton all fit and in the side round one. They‘re all talented and have proven that at their best we picked well. We lack talent, we need to get rid of the guys who simply will never be anything more than very ordinary players not the guys who can actually play. Also he’s 24 gringo turns 25 next March, I’m not moving out anyone 25 or under unless it’s for overs.

It was a lousy loss and has sunk any thought of finals, it’s frustrating watching other sides load up on talent while we have one first rounder. I get all that and it’s driving me mad as well but now is the time for cool heads, we simply can’t afford to get this off-season wrong.

It's sad that they haven't played a game all together since the 2020 finals when we were all optimistic about those 3 being a core of the side moving forward.