Round 3 Trades

[mochacinolatte]

How would people rank these 3 on bringing them in this week:

- Bonner
- Coniglio
- Ryan (WCE)

Bonner -> Ryan -> Cogs

 

[enobrien]

That is the the issue. I don't think Danger will drop much , even if he scores 4 x 100s over the next month he will drop around the 630/640k mark which still aint cheap.

At 3/4 time yesterday I thought, you beauty, he was on 83 and he will be cheap in a few weeks but right on cue when the game was up for grabs he pulled out a 50 point last quarter.

Don't mind the Oliver idea though.

You non-Danger owners ideally want him to score low in his third game as it will be the score that stays in his rolling avg for his first 3 price changes.

That being said that game is rd4 vs the Saints at the cattery

Don’t see him going any less than 140

 

[Papa Caz]

Langdon out for 4 weeks, keep him on the pine or trade to Ryan? Means I have to keep hibberd and take the price drop if I trade Langdon

 

[Papa Caz]

 

[stevebbb]

ZGL -> Ryan

Can always trade ZGL back in when he returns

 

[harimal12]

Lynch or McLean?Forward line

 

[stevebbb]

Lynch or McLean?Forward line

McLean. Libba out = midfield minutes galore
Lynch will give you a headache with his inconsistent scoring

 

[stevebbb]

ZGL -> Ryan

Can always trade ZGL back in when he returns

okokokokokok need to take a step back

I could keep ZGL and use him to loophole my F6: Garlett E on Friday night, Fritsch waiting in the wings

but I think Ryan is a must have...

 

[Axly]

Thinking just Clark>Barry at this stage,
any other Mid rookies a should be looking at? Already got Brayshaw, Banfield, Holman & Kelly.

Got D.Fogarty in FWD and Naughton in DEF.
So considering going one to either Fisher or Bonner, or to some cheaper options? ( other rookies are currently FWD: Ryan, ZGL, Fritsch/ DEF: Murray, Finlayson, Murphy)

But if if I hold them it leaves me $264k to help get Danger in, but at same time I'll prob miss the boat on Bonner or Fisher if I don't get them in.
If I grab both (risky) it only leaves $26k.

Suggestions much appreciated

 

[ciggybuttbrain]

30 trades left, 87.5k in the bank, am thinking:

Hibberd to Simpson or Bonner?
ZGL to Waterman

Thoughts?

 

[AssassinAndy]

Could be a nice rookie option in a month for those that don't have him.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Might hold ZL team sections this week will be very important.
Two already out.
One in doubt.
D fog unsure if he stays aswell.

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

It's only Tuesdee but boy oh boy it is looking like a carnage round already.

 

[JDavey]

WOW! Youre crying over 6 extra points? Hahah. And you took this much time to research possession by possession? Hahahahahahha. Thats embarassing as shit.

The tackles were counted, unless similar tackles where consistently not counted for other players, then thats nothing to do with Dusty. Thats an issue with the champion data stat keepers. So taking off those points is just dumb unless you want to go through every single player and adjust their scores for tackles that shouldn't have counted.

As far as I can tell the closer the score is the later in the game, the more it gets scaled. So touches late in a close game are scaled better than goals at the start of a match. And Dusty kicked 2 goals in the last quarter to bring Richmond back.
Was Jenkins a match winner? I assume kicking most of his goals early in the game from free kicks dont get you as much as outplaying an opponent and kicking goals last in the game.
Am I imagining things are does your break down of scores just have the base score with no scaling? Add back in the points you stupidly took out for the tackles and it seems pretty simple where the few extra points come from.

Im not sure whats in your head. Not much if you think the people doing champion data stat keeping are upping certain players stats for supercoach scores. LMAO

Those tackles aren't consistently counted for other players. Champion data stat keepers have their own biases and they clearly favored dusty, this is the definition of KOTD. I'm not sure what to say if you don't think there is human error in stat keeping?

Just for the record I'm saying in just one half he scored 22 points more than he should've been, not 6. Cry all you want but the facts are there for you to dispute.

Edit: And we're on a supercoach board to discuss supercoach - if you find it 'embarrassing' to talk about stats here you might want to consider why you even log on in the first place campaigner.

 

[vast]

Hmmm ZGL does he even get straight back in I assume he would most pssibly comes back through the reserves if the giants are flying.

 

[vast]

30 trades left, 87.5k in the bank, am thinking:

Hibberd to Simpson or Bonner?
ZGL to Waterman

Thoughts?
View attachment 478427 View attachment 478428

See if naughton plays before moving on hibberd.

Waterman seems ok but what happens when JJk is back? And how far away is he?

 

[mochacinolatte]

I'm glad you asked about points, scaling and weighing. My exact argument is that Martin has been scaled up for no good reason, and it shows in his score.
Lets look at Dustys HT to FT SC scores.

1st Half: DT: 80, SC: 84
Stats: Kicks - 13, HB 4, MK 2, Tackle 3, Goals 3, CP 9, CL 6, Clanger 1, DE 70, FF -, FA 1

2nd Half: DT: 47, SC 76
Stats: Kicks - 6, HB 2, MK, 1, Tackle 4, Goals 2, CP 5, CL 1, Clanger 3, DE 87.5, FF -, FA 2

Supercoach 84 | 76
Disposals 17 | 8
Kicks 13 | 6
Handballs 4 | 2
Marks 2 | 1
Tackles 3 | 4
Goals 3 | 2
CP 9 | 5
Clearances 6 | 1
Clanger 1 | 3
DE 70 | 88
Free Against 1 | 2

Now lets go through each of those touches.

Q3. 5 Possessions - 29.5 SC points (should've been 21.5 SC points) - Tigers lose qtr by 10 points
Possession 1 (3 points)
Contested possession (intercepts crow handball) - 3 points
Kick to contest (short) (centre clearance) - 0 points

Possession 2 (9.5 points)
Uncontested handball receive - 1.5 points
Long effective kick to i50 - 5 points
Score assist - 3 points

Possession 3 (4.5 points)
Uncontested handball receive - 1.5 points
Effective kick (short) - 3 points

Tackle (4 points)
Watch the replay, they call this a tackle on CEY and its clearly not. Shouldn't have gotten points for this

Free Against (-4 points)

One Percenter/Turnover (8 points)
Tackle - 4 points - once again, this wasn't a tackle
Knock on to advantage - 4 points

Possession 4 (4.5 points)
Uncontested handball receive - 1.5 point
Effective kick (short) - 3 points

Q4. 5 Possessions - 40 SC points (should've been 32 SC points)- Tigers lose qtr by 14 points
Possession 5 (13 points)
Contested mark I50 - 4 points
Kick - 3 points
Goal - 6 points (Score after goal - 91 v 75)

Tackle (4 points)
Third non tackle he is given points for, he TOUCHES CEY's arm and that counts as a tackle apparently

Possession 6 (10.5 points)
Uncontested handball receive - 1.5 point
Kick - 3 points
Goal - 6 points (Score after goal - 91 v 82)

Possession 7 (3 points)
Uncontested handball receive - 1.5 point
Effective handball - 1.5 point

Tackle (4 points)
Fourth non-tackle award points, he touches CEY's hips as CEY handballs/falls to the ground

Free Against (0 points)
Hardball Get - 4 points
FA - -4 points

Possession 8 (5.5 points)
Looseball Get - 4 points
Effective handball - 1.5 point


Conclusion:
I can only seem to find 70 SC points for Dusty's second half according to the AFL statistics and their replays. Once you adjust for the three incorrect tackles it should've been 54 points. Yet amazingly he ended up with 76 points for the half!

Now sure, you can argue that the score of his first half contributed to the second half via scaling. And that is a legitimate argument, however, given he was also gifted 16 points from non-existent tackles in one half alone and the fact the Tigers got pumped by 36 and it doesn't appear his second half score had much scaling go the other way I don't buy it.

Remember he had a +33 DT/SC game differential, when other Tigers who had great first halves weren't scaled up by similarly crazy amounts (e.g. Nankervis +10 , Caddy -1). Match winners Josh Jenkins (+1 DT/SC) and Laird (-21 DT/SC) didn't receive super scaling, Dusty's direct opponent CEY copped it hard (-24 DT/SC).

So yes, a +22 SC point half on what he should've scored seems completely off, and that isn't even looking at the first half of the game.
Don't worry though, definitely all in my head and 100% NOT KOTD

Good read.

I understand your frustration with 'Champions Data scoring system' it was the same with Bontempelli to some extent last year. The issue with Champion Data is it isn't perfect and there is bound to be human error when handing out points such as what 'constitutes' a tackle in their eyes? Is it just knocking the ball off the opponents hand? A full arm wrap? There is a lot of arbitrary with this action and probably requires CD to explain it.

Most of us know that Supercoach scoring vastly differs from Dream Team.

Dream Team
1 Action = X Point
E.g 1 Kick = + 3 Point (Correct me if I am wrong) regardless of what happens with the possession
No point cap in a game

Supercoach
1 Action = X + Y + Z point
E.g 1 Kick = Is it effective? + 3 Turnover? - 3 etc etc
3300 Point Cap

So what happens when a defender kicks down the line and its up a 50/50 contest? is it + 3? or 0 for being ineffective. Hence a lot of guesswork goes around and effectively Supercoach points are based on a player's performance/influence through a game than #possie.

Regarding back to the point cap, at the end of the day CD will always scale points back to 3300. Lets say at the end of the Match a total of 3200 points have been allocated, CD could easily amend all the missed possession or inflates players point based on the performance because in their eyes (not ours) is that they had a better performance.

When games are close e.g Geelong vs Hawthorn game, points will get deducted from players throughout the 4th qtr whom do nothing and players who had any influence whether it tackling/kicking will have their scores inflated per action. e.g Tackle = 4 points may now be worth 6 points since the game is so close. Look at GAblett and Dangerfield getting like 60 points in the last qtr and everyone got scaled down.

Looking at your Dustin Martin analysis in the second half, Martin kicked 2 crucial goals in the 3rd qtr which kept Richmond in the hunt. It could be in CD eyes (I don't know) they may have awarded martin more points for those goals cause he had kept them in the hunt.

I understand your frustration with CD scoring, but at the end of the day CD determines how much a player has impacted a game.

 

[JRyan23]

Hibberd to Simmo
Naughton to Bonner

Hold ZGL as a loophole (no fwd rookies that i need)

 

[Marlowe]

Why do CD scale at all? I don't mind the 'unfair' subjective nature of scoring certain players, but I don't get why they need to scale down at all (this hurts all our bottom lines).

 

[buttox]

Pretty happy with my team. Sitting about 1100th.

Need some advice on a couple of options:

1. Hibberd --> Simpson.
OR
2. Hibberd --> Heater
AND
Naughton --> Bonner.

Can't do Naughton to Bonner without Hibberd to Shaw.

1 for me.
Heater more depth in his team IMO. More likely he losses his role. Bit of a guess.
Naughton will probably go up this week. Hibberd will drop. So 3 is out.
Hope this helps.

 

[mochacinolatte]

okokokokokok need to take a step back

I could keep ZGL and use him to loophole my F6: Garlett E on Friday night, Fritsch waiting in the wings

but I think Ryan is a must have...

Got a underperforming high end rookie in the midfield? e.g Dow/LDU/Brayshaw. Swing Garlett mid and downgrade one of the guys to Ryan? Banked 70k and have a higher cash generation.

We all building for the Dangerfield War Chest

 

[LeverPuller]

Ok they both played.
Looks like lewis had limited game time in that game.

Lewis hurt his calf in Q1

 

[InFiction]

Team prior to doing anything. Only have $3,500 in the bank. 30 trades remaining.

Going to do 2 corrective trades this week, and I think I'll be looking to move out 2 of Hibberd, Bellis and Bont.

Ellis is definitely going, sucked in to picking him thinking he'd be a decent POD with his history. Seems to be spending a lot of time deeper in the backline, and 2 poor scores means he's gotta go.

Hibberd is suffering from the same treatment, and is more than likely going to be outta there as well.

Bont was pretty awful in R1, but the entire team was. Started well in R2, but didn't follow through. I missed the game itself, as I was away for the weekend.

Currently thinking Hibberd + Bellis > Simpson + Shaw ($76,800 in the bank) or Hibberd + Bellis > Simpson + Bonner ($277,600 in the bank) which gives me the option to remain aggressive again next week if Bont doesn't do well, and Danger really kills it vs WCE with a single corrective upgrade.

Would love some thoughts on my 2 options, and some other considerations if I've missed anything! Cheers in advance!

 

[G Mus]

Good read.

I understand your frustration with 'Champions Data scoring system' it was the same with Bontempelli to some extent last year. The issue with Champion Data is it isn't perfect and there is bound to be human error when handing out points such as what 'constitutes' a tackle in their eyes? Is it just knocking the ball off the opponents hand? A full arm wrap? There is a lot of arbitrary with this action and probably requires CD to explain it.

Most of us know that Supercoach scoring vastly differs from Dream Team.

Dream Team
1 Action = X Point
E.g 1 Kick = + 3 Point (Correct me if I am wrong) regardless of what happens with the possession
No point cap in a game

Supercoach
1 Action = X + Y + Z point
E.g 1 Kick = Is it effective? + 3 Turnover? - 3 etc etc
3300 Point Cap

So what happens when a defender kicks down the line and its up a 50/50 contest? is it + 3? or 0 for being ineffective. Hence a lot of guesswork goes around and effectively Supercoach points are based on a player's performance/influence through a game than #possie.

Regarding back to the point cap, at the end of the day CD will always scale points back to 3300. Lets say at the end of the Match a total of 3200 points have been allocated, CD could easily amend all the missed possession or inflates players point based on the performance because in their eyes (not ours) is that they had a better performance.

When games are close e.g Geelong vs Hawthorn game, points will get deducted from players throughout the 4th qtr whom do nothing and players who had any influence whether it tackling/kicking will have their scores inflated per action. e.g Tackle = 4 points may now be worth 6 points since the game is so close. Look at GAblett and Dangerfield getting like 60 points in the last qtr and everyone got scaled down.

Looking at your Dustin Martin analysis in the second half, Martin kicked 2 crucial goals in the 3rd qtr which kept Richmond in the hunt. It could be in CD eyes (I don't know) they may have awarded martin more points for those goals cause he had kept them in the hunt.

I understand your frustration with CD scoring, but at the end of the day CD determines how much a player has impacted a game.

According to CD a tackle isn't a tackle if the player being tackled effectively disposed of the ball


The issue with Bont's scoring especially in that one game is he had a large amount of taps to advantage, which score but don't appear on free stat columns

 

[Didstar]

Thinking of going:
Hibberd --> Bonner
Naughton --> Mclean
Via sicily