Round 4 - vs. Geelong @ Telstra Dome

[Persevering Saint]

The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Look, I know we've got the dogs first, but I just can't get over this.

I was not particularly convinced, by any stretch of the imagination, by our performance against Carlton on Saturday, especially our first quarter. Furthermore, I might add, Joey gave a clear indication that the team are not impressed with their form at the moment when he was interviewed on the Sunday Footy Show.

Then, there's Geelong. The obliteration that they made of the Dons on Sunday was nothing short of terrifying. The thing was, I don't think the Dons were playing poorly - they were just overran by the best side I've ever seen. And at the moment, I think if we were playing Essendon, it'd be a close game - so do the math.

All the positive talk of St Kilda I've been a part of on this site just started to fade as I realised that the Cats are not even in the same stratosphere as the rest of the competition.

I want to believe that we can beat the Cats in Round 4. But I just can't see it happening. Please, if you think there is any way, let me know. But don't waste our time with pie in the sky generalities or hopeful wishes (like Kosi kicking 5 again like he did in the Mickey Mouse game against them in the NAB). How specifically can you see us beating this awesome team?

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

I think it is a little disrespectful to the doggies to start talking about the next match as if we already have them beaten - that may not be your intention - but that is the reaction some Bulldogs supporters could justifiably have.

What's the big deal with the Cats anyway - they've had a good run with injuries and are able to keep a best or near best team on the park.

We are a better team at our best than they are.

 

[mick13]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Hopefully Kosi will kick 5, Milney will boot 11 straight and Lenny will get 22 clearances. Easy as that.

But really, I reckon the Cats are 5 goals better than anyone else at their best. Should be happy if we get within that.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Sorry Kildonian (and any Doggies fans out there...), that wasn't my intention. I'm not saying in the least that we can pen in the game against the Doggies (far from it!). What I am saying is that irrespective of the outcome of this week's game - win or lose - I don't think that matters when you're talking about playing Geelong.

I HATE to give this much cred to Geelong, because their supporters are generally stuck up, rude, trolls now. I just hope that when we DO win a flag, we're not the jerks that they've become.

 

[cats2rise]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Yeh but Essendon are crap. Wouldnt read much into it.

 

[okeydoke7]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

I would love to play them in round 10, without injuries, we should be full strength by then with BJ and Goose back in along with Baker, a big loss. but i would love us to make a big contest against them to stamp our authority on the year. hopefully we beat the doggies and start off with 3 wins, then turn all attention onto the cats. the ultimate test.

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Instead of looking at the Essendon line - look at the Sydney comparison - look what Sydney did to the team that went within single figures of toppling Geelong in week 1 - an absolute anihilation.

Our biggest concern is what is coming up this week. It always is.

 

[bubblegoose]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Our biggest concern is what is coming up this week. It always is.

Absolutely boss, and with no disrespect to the dogs I'll add:

that our skills are what will allow us to be beaten. If we can clean up our disposals & minimise our turnovers we'll go ok against the Cats. The Cats seem to capitalise on every single turnover, you just can't give them easy scoring opportunities.

The dogs game should be a great battle.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Absolutely boss, and with no disrespect to the dogs I'll add:

that our skills are what will allow us to be beaten. If we can clean up our disposals & minimise our turnovers we'll go ok against the Cats. The Cats seem to capitalise on every single turnover, you just can't give them easy scoring opportunities.

The dogs game should be a great battle.

Exactly. The main reason they are doing so well is that they are playing with confidence. We should have a degree of that if we win this week as that will make it 7 wins on the trot (I realise the NAB cup is included here but it makes for winning mentality). Don't fear Geelong. They are playing great football but they are far from invincible.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Just hoping for a win against the bulldogs. We are not playing very well. There were only three teams St.kilda would of defeated on Saturday night. They would be Carlton (the team we played) Melbourne (crap + playing with no passion) and Richmond (long way of the pace) If we played any other side, we would not come away with the four points. Need to improve and quick.

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Geelong have had virtually the same squad out there playing together for over a year now. That goes a long way to explaining their confidence.

Given that same circumstance, the Saints would be just as fearsome to other clubs. We need to keep our boys on the park, something that is looking pretty good so far. Re-integrating Goddard and Maguire and getting games under their belts is paramount.

We may lose this first encounter with Geelong, but we are a better team than them and once we've got a good number of games together we will be able to assert that superiority.

 

[Ant_]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

My advice is to put all your efforts into Rnd 4.

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Thanks for that sage advice Anthony_

 

[Ant_]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Thanks for that sage advice Anthony_

Your welcome KDon

A loss in Round 3 would be a small sacrifice

 

[Speck]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Massive game. It all depends on how we play against the Doggies first though. We get some form and confidence going and you never know, we could put up a decent fight. I reckon we need to win 1 of Port Adelaide and Geelong (I don't care how, just 4 points).

 

[NeXus_Helen]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

We will beat the Western Bulldogs comfortably.....at least 30 points. We can beat Geelong providing Gehrig, Riewoldt and Kosi have their kicking boots on. And I'm not ecpecting a scoreline of 20 4 124, although it would be nice.

 

[WASaintsFan08]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

i dont know why every one so worried about the cats.. its the bulldogs we should be worried about at the moment... their quick movement and the way they can steal quick goals out of no where... look at the adelaide bulldogs game..
itll be a close fast game which we will lose if we play that defensive crap

but with geelong you just have too beat them at your own game... not allow them theirs... they do what every other team try to do pressure other teams into their style and kill them at it.... in the nab cup in the first quarter we tried their game and lost... then beat them the rest of the game

this time we just need too pressure more run harder...

dont try compare other games to this game though like geelong vs essendon

if you do that youll compare port vs geelong syd vs port saints vs syd

every team is breakable as long as your willing to go the extra mile

if we can get a 4-0 start we're 1/3rd of the way to playing finals footy but we need to push just that much harder... and the crowd needs too cheer that much louder... let players off for their mistake... if they see the crowds loving them theyll try that much harder as well

 

[Shmoses]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

We may lose this first encounter with Geelong, but we are a better team than them and once we've got a good number of games together we will be able to assert that superiority.

I'm genuinely not here to troll, but I'd really like to know why you think that? The Cats are pretty clearly the competition benchmark at the moment.

Again, not trolling. Genuine question.

 

[WASaintsFan08]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

because in the last year or so geelong has had the fewest injuries in the afl where as the saints one of the highest injuries.. so geelong with their depth has been able too settle in nicely bond and get to know eachothers style its like an under 12's team in that regard

the saints now have equal depth and are starting too fuse on the park together.. working out our best forward line... our strongest taggers our best ruck combos our quickest routes too goal, our stronger backmen our best midfield combination, who to replace who when something happens, so theres alot of developement and round 1 - 15 will show that... especially with big names still too come back from injury and key players struggling too get into the 22 already

Geelong has this all worked out and like brisbane between 01-04 know eachother inside out and are the benchmark of the afl. but cant go much further and will find weaknesses (sydney had the wood over brisbane) because when you set the benchmark you cant bring it up a gear which is why brisbane finally lost the 04 grand final

 

[okeydoke7]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

because in the last year or so geelong has had the fewest injuries in the afl where as the saints one of the highest injuries.. so geelong with their depth has been able too settle in nicely bond and get to know eachothers style its like an under 12's team in that regard

the saints now have equal depth and are starting too fuse on the park together.. working out our best forward line... our strongest taggers our best ruck combos our quickest routes too goal, our stronger backmen our best midfield combination, who to replace who when something happens, so theres alot of developement and round 1 - 15 will show that... especially with big names still too come back from injury and key players struggling too get into the 22 already

Geelong has this all worked out and like brisbane between 01-04 know eachother inside out and are the benchmark of the afl. but cant go much further and will find weaknesses (sydney had the wood over brisbane) because when you set the benchmark you cant bring it up a gear which is why brisbane finally lost the 04 grand final

Explained brilliantly. we're not up too Geelongs standars yet. but we can be at full potential, which is where the cats are now.

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

I'm happy with that explanation - I might add that the core group of players making up our squad are from the 2001 draft and thereabouts.

Geelongs core is from 1999 - 2000 so they would be expected to peak before ours. Yet we were pretty even up until last year (change of coach and injury curse) now we're about to peak - all we need to do is get our players on the park and playing good footy together. Let them know each other's game backward, let them earn each others respect and confidence, and they will be a genuine force - at least competitive and hopefully superior to the Geelong Cats. All the Cats need is a couple of injuries against our best side and the football world will be turned upside down.

The value of a full squad cannot be fully appreciated until you never achieve it.

 

[-VC-]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

I'm happy with that explanation - I might add that the core group of players making up our squad are from the 2001 draft and thereabouts.

Geelongs core is from 1999 - 2000 so they would be expected to peak before ours. Yet we were pretty even up until last year (change of coach and injury curse) now we're about to peak - all we need to do is get our players on the park and playing good footy together. Let them know each other's game backward, let them earn each others respect and confidence, and they will be a genuine force - at least competitive and hopefully superior to the Geelong Cats. All the Cats need is a couple of injuries against our best side and the football world will be turned upside down.

The value of a full squad cannot be fully appreciated until you never achieve it.

Geelong's 2000 Draft was uninspiring. The only guy still there is Josh Hunt - not exactly part of the "core group" I'm pretty sure you're referring to. 2000 was the year you guys draft Kosi and Riewoldt.

You both had great drafts in 2001. You got Ball, NDS and Moose. They got Bartel, Kelly, Steve Johnson, Gary Ablett. They actually had the better draft in 2001 really. The 1999 and 2001 drafts were Geelong's biggest builders and yours were 2000 and 2001. I don't think that indicates one group maturing earlier than the other, especially since your 2000 draftees both won the Rising Star. They've already matured really, though I do concede we haven't seen near the best of Kosi.

Your argument is really flawed in that regard. I'm not trolling because I'm completely impartial here. It just doesn't look like you've fully explored the facts in the arguments presented. I agree that you've had a hard time with injuries and they've had a blessed run, but you seem so sure that you're better than them. I don't see it.

 

[sainter]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Geelong's 2000 Draft was uninspiring. The only guy still there is Josh Hunt - not exactly part of the "core group" I'm pretty sure you're referring to. 2000 was the year you guys draft Kosi and Riewoldt.

You both had great drafts in 2001. You got Ball, NDS and Moose. They got Bartel, Kelly, Steve Johnson, Gary Ablett. They actually had the better draft in 2001 really. The 1999 and 2001 drafts were Geelong's biggest builders and yours were 2000 and 2001. I don't think that indicates one group maturing earlier than the other, especially since your 2000 draftees both won the Rising Star. They've already matured really, though I do concede we haven't seen near the best of Kosi.

Your argument is really flawed in that regard. I'm not trolling because I'm completely impartial here. It just doesn't look like you've fully explored the facts in the arguments presented. I agree that you've had a hard time with injuries and they've had a blessed run, but you seem so sure that you're better than them. I don't see it.

Who is Moose? Goose?

I think you've underestimated our 2001 draftees. We also drafted Leigh Montagna and Xavier Clarke in that draft and both are extremely important to our chances this year. X has had virtually his first full pre-season since joining the club and we've already seen the benefits of that so far. As for Joey, if he's not one of the best running midfielders in the league at the moment I'll go he.

As for having a better team, I'd love to agree with Kildonan but I can't. They are a fantastic football team and while potentially I do think we have the squad to really challenge them we're a fair way off doing that.

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

This is what I am talking about - the average of the bulk of the Cats squad are older with many in the 1981/2 birthyears and definitely fewer from 1983/4 than the Saints

Ling, Cameron	161	27	February 27, 1981
Enright, Corey	127	26	September 14, 1981
Johnson, David	70	26	October 28, 1981
Chapman, Paul	138	26	November 5, 1981
Rooke, Max	92	26	December 19, 1981
Corey, Joel	153	26	February 17, 1982
Hunt, Josh	101	26	March 14, 1982
Johnson, Steve	89	24	July 4, 1983
Egan, Matthew	59	24	July 10, 1983
Bartel, Jimmy	110	24	December 4, 1983
Kelly, James	110	24	December 29, 1983
Byrnes, Shannon	47	23	April 7, 1984
Ablett, Gary	127	23	May 14, 1984
Lonergan, Tom	7	23	May 17, 1984
Mackie, Andrew	62	23	August 7, 1984
Stokes, Matthew	32	23	November 22, 1984

versus

Fisher, Sam	        73	25	July 10, 1982
Koschitzke, Justin      99	25	September 20, 1982
Riewoldt, Nick	       136	25	October 17, 1982
Gardiner, Charlie       52	25	March 1, 1983
Birss, Shane	        63	25	March 11, 1983
Clarke, Xavier	        99	24	August 29, 1983
Montagna, Leigh	        75	24	November 2, 1983
Dempster, Sean	        54	24	January 20, 1984
Jones, Clinton	         7	24	February 2, 1984
Dal Santo, Nick	       122	24	February 22, 1984
Fisher, Leigh	        49	23	April 19, 1984
Gram, Jason	        54	23	April 27, 1984
Schneider, Adam	       100	23	May 12, 1984
Ball, Luke	       106	23	May 25, 1984
Maguire, Matthew	95	23	May 30, 1984
Ferguson, Matthew	10	23	October 1, 1984
Goddard, Brendon	90	22	May 20, 1985

The Saints core group is firmy set in the 2001 draft group (born 1983/4)

 

[Kildonan]

Re: The BIG ONE: Saints V Cats, Rnd 4

Geelong's 2000 Draft was uninspiring. The only guy still there is Josh Hunt - not exactly part of the "core group" I'm pretty sure you're referring to. 2000 was the year you guys draft Kosi and Riewoldt.

You both had great drafts in 2001. You got Ball, NDS and Moose. They got Bartel, Kelly, Steve Johnson, Gary Ablett. They actually had the better draft in 2001 really. The 1999 and 2001 drafts were Geelong's biggest builders and yours were 2000 and 2001. I don't think that indicates one group maturing earlier than the other, especially since your 2000 draftees both won the Rising Star. They've already matured really, though I do concede we haven't seen near the best of Kosi.

Your argument is really flawed in that regard. I'm not trolling because I'm completely impartial here. It just doesn't look like you've fully explored the facts in the arguments presented. I agree that you've had a hard time with injuries and they've had a blessed run, but you seem so sure that you're better than them. I don't see it.

My addition to the explanation my fellow Saints supporters was simply a supplementary concept - my main reasoning is that we really need to play our entire best team together for the majority of the season to develop our best performance. Any club can claim the same, the Saints however have been quite competitive without ever having their best 22 on the park - and certainly have not had them available for any extended period.

Sainter has explained where you've simply missed a number of Saints players drafted exactly when I said. You can ignore them if you like, but the lists I provided also contains matches played to indicate the contribution of the players from the age group.