Round 4 - vs. Geelong @ Telstra Dome

[bluejay]

Speaking of goal line marks. How many goals did Geelong stop on the last line of defence... And how many should we have stopped but didn't? The total of these two woul def be around the 7 goals we lost by. It was bloody frustrating and shows either a lack of smarts or a lack of desire to run hard... Prob both. I know when I'm playing in the guts or defence that if I see a vacant goal square I stand in it!

That is exactly the same thought I had while watching the game. Yes, we deserved to lose this game and Geelong were much better (specially since the 10th minute mark of the Q2), but if it hadn't been for those 4 kicks that Geelong saved right in the line and 2 more Milne and Riewoldt missed badly that should have been converted, I reckon the score would have been much closer than it was.
I don't think we played like crap as some suggest (that we did against the Bulldogs), we were just dominated by the best team in the league, period. The stat that they kept showing in the telly about kicking efficiency being around 55% for the Saints and 75% for the Cats just tells the whole story about skills on both sides, and why the score was what it was.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't think we played like crap as some suggest (that we did against the Bulldogs), we were just dominated by the best team in the league, period. The stat that they kept showing in the telly about kicking efficiency being around 55% for the Saints and 75% for the Cats just tells the whole story about skills on both sides, and why the score was what it was.

If we accept that we have played good and will always be dominated by a better team, we might as well all give up.
The discussion needs to be "what can the Saints do to become the best team in the league"
We have some highly regarded players on our list. Do we just accept that Del Santo can lose contests , and that Roo and Kosi will not be able to kick many goals because their oponents are really really good?

I think that some game strategies need to be reviewed, and some of our "overrated" players need to lift their act and play their best game a lot more often.

 

[Kildonan]

we lost by 2 scoring shots.

our weakness is our skills - not our performance or our endeavour.

It is interesting to get the saints up on the dream team statistics list.
The salary changes reflect the performance this year compared to previous statistics.

The majority of the Saints are going down in value.

There are a number of things wrong with evaluating players using these statistics but it is still interesting.

My post from another thread:

Riewoldt is one of the hardest working CHF in the game. He plays using the advantage of his height when he can, but far more frequently he plays as a leading forward. His workrate will often wear out an opponent or two so the opposition clubs often rotate his direct opponent/s.

In order for Rewoldt to be most effective, he needs to be forward of the ball.
His ability to lose opponents and mark a low trajectory pass is lost if he is behind the ball and only effective for one quarter of the time if he is on a wing. He must go forward if we are to capitalise fully on his strength.

Well what can we do then when he is double / triple teamed?

Kick it to Kosi !! Kick it to Gehrig !!

Gehrig is a decent kick of the ball but Nick and Kosi have been disappointing.

Maybe we can counter the ordinary kicking skills of our key forwards by utilizing our better kicks from elsewhere. Maybe Dal, Schneider and Goddard can take turns in presenting as an option for goal.

Maybe our biggest problem has been that opponents force Nick outside his optimum kicking range. When he goes for extra yardage his accuracy suffers (as would anyone's) but Nick is the heart and soul of this club - if he misses a few then heads start to drop.

So far I reckon the Saints have been fairly good at getting shots at goal, but we're missing opportunities more frequently than our opponents.

Ignoring rushed points our scores v opponent scores

St K 06 15 Syd 06 12
St K 19 09 Car 12 11
St K 13 08 W B 19 10
St K 13 11 Gee 21 08
St K 51 43 Opp 58 41

which gives us 54% goals versus opposititions 59%

this doesn't sound too bad but the Carlton game inflates our stats and highlights our problem - against the other three opponents (good opponents who are all undefeated outside our match) our stats are poor.
__________________
St K 32 34 Opp 46 30

which gives us 48% versus good opponents 61%

Is it the superior defence of these good opponents that reduces our accuracy? Is it the overall superior intensity? Is it something else?

How can we compete with teams so even if our scoring accuracy is so low?

Why was our kicking superior against Carlton? Did we have more time? Was it confidence? or simply pressure?

 

[Persevering Saint]

If we accept that we have played good and will always be dominated by a better team, we might as well all give up.
The discussion needs to be "what can the Saints do to become the best team in the league" ...
I think that some game strategies need to be reviewed, and some of our "overrated" players need to lift their act and play their best game a lot more often.

Totally agree with you SaintsSep. We all want to win a premiership, and feel that given all we've got this year, we darn well should give it a fair crack. So any thoughts of being a good team are no longer acceptable - we're wanting to be the best team. Geelong last year was the best team. That changes things significantly. It changes the questions.

Can a good side afford passengers like Raph and Fiora? Yes. But can the best team, the one winning a premiership, afford to have them in their 22? No. Can a good team have a forward line full of talent that doesn't find the middle of the sticks more than 50% of the time? Sure! But the best team will expect that ratio to be up towards 75%, and accept little else.

We'll make very pretty bridesmaids if we are a good team - maybe even get into the GF to be smacked silly like Port was. But only the best team wins the prize. I for one am tired of being a bridesmaid, or being dumped on the ugly relatives table up the back next to Aunty Gert and that cousin who smells like mothballs.

We can be the best team, we should be the best team, now get on with it and be the best team.

 

[Squizz]

Kosi is still a ruckman in my view who can drift forward effectively (more effectively than if stationed in the same area as Gehrig).

I would like to see someone like Sam Fisher tried. I know he is a gun CHB, but we are starting to get big with him, Goose, Max, BJ, Blake (at times) and Gilbo. He came to the club as a CHF, and I get the feeling that he would be a reliable shot on goal.

I also thought about Dal, but then remembered he missed another one from 45m directly in front.

 

[Fehring]

Ignoring rushed points our scores v opponent scores

St K 06 15 Syd 06 12
St K 19 09 Car 12 11
St K 13 08 W B 19 10
St K 13 11 Gee 21 08
St K 51 43 Opp 58 41

which gives us 54% goals versus opposititions 59%

this doesn't sound too bad but the Carlton game inflates our stats and highlights our problem - against the other three opponents (good opponents who are all undefeated outside our match) our stats are poor.
__________________
St K 32 34 Opp 46 30

which gives us 48% versus good opponents 61%

Awesome stats. Was watching the Saturday night fights (B Hall won by KO in the first) and they were saying that the Swans rely on creating a huge number of marks inside F50, which gives them an awesome chance to kick a winning score. Unfortunately, marks inside F50 don't seem to help us. Roo is not a bad kick, but not a great one and Kosi is a shocker. Compare them to the ice man Jon Brown and you see the difference. Also, blokes like Fiora and Milne, who are great kicks, miss too many set shots.

 

[WASaintsFan08]

hire some talented kid from the nothern territory to take raph clarkes jumper mid season....

tell milne too aim a little more left when he has set shots (his kicks always seem to fade way off to the right)

kosi.... tell him he's useless (he'll set the record straight for 3 weeks before getting injured)

tell gehrig theres a pie at chf? if you run there quick you can have it....

include c gardiner in the team

bring back m gardiner schnieder.....

tell nick riewoldt to dye his hair... itll confuse the opps and maybe even make them cry

i think that will just about win us every game this year

 

[Sir Robert]

kosi.... tell him he's useless (he'll set the record straight for 3 weeks before getting injured)

You wouldn't like him when he's angry (Incredible Hulk lol)