Preview Round 7, 2020: Adelaide v St.Kilda - Adelaide Oval, Monday 20th July, 7:40PM AEST *BYRNES DEBUT*

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I would argue that Hill has been pretty good in our wins so has some credits, but Ross?
Ross has been deplorable all year, misses targets, indecisive, slows the play with ball in hand, does stupid over the handball to nobodies advantage,and gets caught with the ball at least once a game.

To me he has zero credits.

Brad Hill has the skills, but he hasn’t shown us he can use them consistently, averaging 15.7 disposals a game with an average 3.1 clangers. So for our prized recruit having only 12.6 decent disposals a game is pretty ordinary.

 

[Diehard Saint]

What’s the story with Gresh ? Has Richo’s coaching taken the excitement out of his game ? When was the last time you saw him attempt to sidestep an opponent? When he began his career he was doing it quite often .


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I don’t agree. I’ve seen him do it a few times this season and get caught. Sometimes I think he tries to take too much on, but I suppose at least he’s trying to do something.

 

[Saintbloke]

I'm thinking that some of those players who were brought in under Richo's time, are not who Ratts would have looked at to recruit and may not be in his bigger picture. The guys who not getting senior games, like Sinclair, Parker, Dmac, Webster etc, may get overlooked and younger guys like Bynes and Bytel might get the nod? I think Ross needs to pull his finger out as does Hill and Geary to a lesser extent as they are seen as the experienced leaders. Maybe Abbott could get a look in too, as Marshall seems to have lost his confidence a bit?

 

[bird_man]

You need to watch more closely. 0 coaches votes in 6 games thus far this season tells it all really for supposedly a ball winning midfielder and a leader of the club.

0 coaches votes suggests he's in poor form.

2 best and fairest suggests he can play.

Ratten will back him, as Lethlean said, he has runs on the board. But he did say he was under pressure.

People may not like it, but your better players will always get more opportunities to perform then the ones without the runs on the board.

I just hope he bounces back and has a big game this week.

 

[puppy_dog7]

You need to watch more closely. 0 coaches votes in 6 games thus far this season tells it all really for supposedly a ball winning midfielder and a leader of the club.

Are you even listening to me?! I have been agreeing with you that he’s been poor this year.
But in the last 3 years he’s received more brownlow votes, coaches votes and BnF votes than any other player on our list. So, saying he never plays a good game is just a blatant lie. And my point that you have a short memory is valid.

 

[The_Steadier]

He almost singlehandedly dragged us across the line against Fremantle. Won a bunch of clearances in the last quarter. I like his midfield work this year, wish a few of our other midfielders would take his lead.

Yep gresh is our only midfielder you can rely on to beat the opposition to the ball.

He has a huge talent for knowing where the ball will be- that is like lightning in a bottle stuff you can't teach.

Good news is that his downside (disposal) IS something you can teach, so we need to persist with him in the middle.

In a couple of years he will be running around dominating teams like michael walters did to us a few days ago.

Like gresh, Walters could be a very good forward pocket- but forward pockets don't win you finals- midfielders do.

 

[mightymalaka]

Are you even listening to me?! I have been agreeing with you that he’s been poor this year.
But in the last 3 years he’s received more brownlow votes, coaches votes and BnF votes than any other player on our list. So, saying he never plays a good game is just a blatant lie. And my point that you have a short memory is valid.

I know your not talking to me. But I've been following the Saints for a dam long time and I've watched Ross's Charmed career since he came in and can assure my opinion on his value/worthlessness is based on having a very long memory!

 

[bird_man]

Yep gresh is our only midfielder you can rely on to beat the opposition to the ball.

He has a huge talent for knowing where the ball will be- that is like lightning in a bottle stuff you can't teach.

Good news is that his downside (disposal) IS something you can teach, so we need to persist with him in the middle.

In a couple of years he will be running around dominating teams like michael walters did to us a few days ago.

Like gresh, Walters could be a very good forward pocket- but forward pockets don't win you finals- midfielders do.

Couldn't agree more.

Gresham is our best clearance player this year. He's clearly having issues with his kicking at the moment but he showed on the weekend he's the type of of player that can turn a game in the midfield.

I'd expect his kicking to improve with more time and coaching.

Walters is a very good comparison. It took until his mid 20's until he started having a real impact in the midfield.

Would love to see Gresham sneak forward and kick more goals at the moment, but we also need to preserver with him in the middle.

 

[The_Steadier]

His best footy was in the forward line. He's an ordinary mid but an excellent small forward.

Yeah but the degree of difficulty of what gresh is trying to do in the middle is far higher than in the forward line.

As in it's far easier to do good things as a small forward than it is to do good things as a centre square midfielder going head to head with literally the best players in the competition.

Not saying it's easy to be a small forward, just that when compared to beating the likes of fyfe, martin, dangerfield etc to the ball and doing something good with it... it is easier.

Us putting gresh back in the fwd line would be like diving at the olympics and executing an easy dive perfectly.


When infact what is of greater benefit to the team (and scores higher to win a medal) is a less than perfectly executed dive which is much more difficult.

 

[The Punter]

Brad Hill has the skills, but he hasn’t shown us he can use them consistently, averaging 15.7 disposals a game with an average 3.1 clangers. So for our prized recruit having only 12.6 decent disposals a game is pretty ordinary.

Clangers also include free kicks conceded. He's had 21 clangers in 6 games, of which 7 have been free kicks conceded. So his disposal clanger rate is more like 2.3 per game.

 

[Saintbloke]

I wonder if it might be time to rest Marshall? he just seems to have lost that fire in the belly he played with last year and not really stamping himself on games so far this season. Might see Paddy back for the Adelaide game.

 

[Stewart66]

It's quite obvious the loss was on the players, the same as it was in Round 1. Anyone who says it's coaching either didn't watch the game or are being purposefully obtuse.

Interesting that those that have said it's a coaching issue didn't really bother to argue their point with any evidence - nothing about structural changes that lost us the game, nothing about matchups or directive. Unless you are in the coaches box you don't have a clue. But when you're six goals up after 15 minutes then clearly something is working. We didn't just "get outcoached" for three quarters. Our players thought the job was done. They are immature and inexperienced, they don't know how to win. No defensive running, hack balls into the fifty, and a complete lack of work ethic when we were challenged cannot be arrested by the coach - it has to be done by the people directly responsible for addressing and changing it - the players.

Agree with 100% George .

People see what they want .

2nd Quarter .......we have 5 defenders flying for one contest ....Schultz stands unmarked 10 metres from
goal...unforgivable by Players such as Carlisle hence why it’s so frustrating you see one week desperate
Jake spoil one week lazy undisciplined Jake the next ..played a poor game hence was shifted forward
demanding he give them something forward, he didn’t , had a few mates.

2nd Quarter ...Lonie cheating on the wing 30 metres away from everyone when the ball is dispute
the contest is won by Fremantle watches Bewley gather the ball and makes half effort to get to him
then waves the oh well too bad as the ball sails through the goals.

Ratten made lots of changes. to midfield combinations when momentum shifted put Hill to Half Back
trying to generate run , Hill was more interested in engaging in push shove games with Sonny Walters
really poor game by Hill .

Only mistake Ratts has made is he has supported the Leadership Group...which is like a giant boys
club ..they constantly talk the talk , but consistently let the club down walking the walk over past 6 years.

Will be extremely disappointed if Ross is given opportunity for a least 2 weeks .

Particularly because he doesn’t have a defensive bone in his body.

 

[saintal]

Ticket obtained. Praying for a win..it's been way, way, way too long since we beat these &*%^.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Yeah but the degree of difficulty of what gresh is trying to do in the middle is far higher than in the forward line.

As in it's far easier to do good things as a small forward than it is to do good things as a centre square midfielder going head to head with literally the best players in the competition.

Not saying it's easy to be a small forward, just that when compared to beating the likes of fyfe, martin, dangerfield etc to the ball and doing something good with it... it is easier.

Us putting gresh back in the fwd line would be like diving at the olympics and executing an easy dive perfectly.


When infact what is of greater benefit to the team (and scores higher to win a medal) is a less than perfectly executed dive which is much more difficult.

I don't know if I agree with that. How many small forwards can kick 35 goals in a year (which he did at age 20)? I'd argue there are more gun mids than gun small forwards in the comp. He is still young but hes shown that he can be a top level small forward. He's got some strengths in midfield but he also has limitations. It's a tricky one.

As for the Walters comparison, he has spent far more time in the forwardline than he has midfield. Even as recently as last year, he spent large amounts of games in the forwardline, kicking 40 goals. His forward ability was crucial to Freo making a grand final. He kicked 46 goals in 2013 - three important ones in a prelim.

 

[bird_man]

I wonder if it might be time to rest Marshall? he just seems to have lost that fire in the belly he played with last year and not really stamping himself on games so far this season. Might see Paddy back for the Adelaide game.

He was close to if not best on ground the week prior.

We might see Ryder, but it won't be in place of Marshall.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

He was close to if not best on ground the week prior.

We might see Ryder, but it won't be in place of Marshall.

A week is a long time in footy my god. People were full of praise last week for Marshall.

I reckon he could be our next captain.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Agree with 100% George .

People see what they want .

2nd Quarter .......we have 5 defenders flying for one contest ....Schultz stands unmarked 10 metres from
goal...unforgivable by Players such as Carlisle hence why it’s so frustrating you see one week desperate
Jake spoil one week lazy undisciplined Jake the next ..played a poor game hence was shifted forward
demanding he give them something forward, he didn’t , had a few mates.

2nd Quarter ...Lonie cheating on the wing 30 metres away from everyone when the ball is dispute
the contest is one by Fremantle watches Bewley gather the ball and makes half effort to get to him
then waves the oh well too bad as the ball sails through the goals.

Ratten made lots of changes. to midfield combinations when momentum shifted put Hill to Half Back
trying to generate run , Hill was more interested in engaging in push shove games with Sonny Walters
really poor game by Hill .

Only mistake Ratts has made is he has supported the Leadership Group...which is like a giant boys
club ..they constantly talk the talk , but consistently let the club down walking the walk over past 6 years.

Will be extremely disappointed if Ross is given opportunity for a least 2 weeks .

Particularly because he doesn’t have a defensive bone in his body.

yeah that was shithouse. Howard, although i love his effort is a player that fly's at every contest if he's close enough, which is a good thing, except for when you have 4 other teammates also flying. He was last one up at that contest. You could argue that he's the one that should be flying because he's our biggest defender and spoils better than everyone else. In that scenario in the future there needs to be more talk from the boys. Hopefully thats just a case of inexperience and still learning to play with each other.

 

[puppy_dog7]

I wonder if it might be time to rest Marshall? he just seems to have lost that fire in the belly he played with last year and not really stamping himself on games so far this season. Might see Paddy back for the Adelaide game.

He had 2 good games against Richmond and Carlton. Hard to see him dropped, especially since he's probably our most influential player when he's on. I think a lot of people on here forget really quickly after a disappointing loss. However, if he has a poor fortnight against the Adelaide teams I'd consider resting him and giving Paddy a go at it.

 

[Ducky Tie]

yeah that was shithouse. Howard, although i love his effort is a player that fly's at every contest if he's close enough, which is a good thing, except for when you have 4 other teammates also flying. He was last one up at that contest. You could argue that he's the one that should be flying because he's our biggest defender and spoils better than everyone else. In that scenario in the future there needs to be more talk from the boys. Hopefully thats just a case of inexperience and still learning to play with each other.

Howard had several poor moments I thought, but that wasn't one of them. It was entirely Carlisle's error. Howard has to go up as Taberner is going up. Marshall is third man up and has no opponent so he is fine too. Carlisle runs in, leaves Schulz and doesn't impact. Clip of the goal in the attachment,

 

[The Punter]

If Marshall is to play as a sole ruckman, he needs to play his game. I know he is being mentored by Ryder at the delicate art of the tap to advantage, but last week a couple of "grab ball and kick as far as possible" clearances wouldn't have gone astray.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Howard had several poor moments I thought, but that wasn't one of them. It was entirely Carlisle's error. Howard has to go up as Taberner is going up. Marshall is third man up and has no opponent so he is fine too. Carlisle runs in, leaves Schulz and doesn't impact. Clip of the goal in the attachment,

sorry you're right. Looks like Battle and Carlisle the 3rd and 4th up. In that scenarion being last up in a pack, Either of them had to kill it to the boundary line! Otherwise stay down. Especially Battle

 

[gringo2011]

I know your not talking to me. But I've been following the Saints for a dam long time and I've watched Ross's Charmed career since he came in and can assure my opinion on his value/worthlessness is based on having a very long memory!

He's been good in the past and I've defended him but he's out of credits now. Last year he played okay but wasn't great, this year he's dropped off a cliff. He was decent last week but that's the one game this year that has been even up to AFL standard. As Stewie said, he refuses to defend and chase so he has to at least attack. If he doesn't neither he's an absolute liability. The Freo game has made me turn on him completely. When you need leaders to stand up and you get him and Geary it's almost the opposite of motivation. At least Geary was trying in the last 10 minutes I guess. Membrey missing that sitter was a huge dagger through the heart too. The Richo generation look a lot like the Dees generation that were comfortable with losing. We almost just have to look at life beyond the bulk of them. Membrey probably worth persisting with and Billings, Carlisle and Gresham the only others probably worth long term consideration.

 

[gringo2011]

yeah that was shithouse. Howard, although i love his effort is a player that fly's at every contest if he's close enough, which is a good thing, except for when you have 4 other teammates also flying. He was last one up at that contest. You could argue that he's the one that should be flying because he's our biggest defender and spoils better than everyone else. In that scenario in the future there needs to be more talk from the boys. Hopefully thats just a case of inexperience and still learning to play with each other.

I'm not seeing it with Howard. He looks like a GOP. Like a taller Zac Dawson.

 

[Brains Trust66]

I don’t agree. I’ve seen him do it a few times this season and get caught. Sometimes I think he tries to take too much on, but I suppose at least he’s trying to do something.

That’s good , I haven’t seen most of the games , only highlights as I don’t have anything except free to air footy . Glad I was wrong , I hope he keeps trying because it’s great when it works .


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[BangersAndMash]

Thank you...

My pleasure