Preview Round 7, 2020: Adelaide v St.Kilda - Adelaide Oval, Monday 20th July, 7:40PM AEST *BYRNES DEBUT*

[StCicatriz]

he got his colours lowered by Longmuir in that game yep ....
two coaches had a team that at one stage of the game being totally outplayed ... one coach managed to get his team to stem that and fight their way back .. the other didnt ..

Ratts is the coach its on him to get the players up and about he didnt ... much like when Ratts coached Carlton when they were good they looked really really good but two way running wasnt their big thing ... its only a very very small sample size yes but Ratts hasnt done anything yet to convince me he is the guru/messiah that after a few wins everyone thinks he is

agree 100% with this

having said that i think we are overplaying Longmuir here, who to be honest, seems very very light on to be a senior coach. he didn't come up with these magical game day tactics of his own volition. he was forcibly put down that road for what they had available.

he didn't develop fyfe or walters or brayshaw. he's inherited it. all he did was put his best players on ball and go in small because of who he had available.

in my eyes we lost this. freo didn't win it.

the two way running at times is ****in deplorable and was on show against the pies in pre-season.

 

[DarkSaint]

LOL STFU. In all honesty, how do you think a player can win, not 1 but 2 Best and Fairest's and barely ever play a half decent game? i agree he's been poor this year and in the middle of the year last year, and should be on notice to lift or get dropped, but you're literally spitting sh*t if you don't think he ever plays a good game.

Mate you got no idea, how about you watch some games and get back to me what Seb Ross' direct opponent actually does. It's all well and good for him to average 25 when he has very minimal hurt factor. Look at his opponents and see the damage that they do. We have had a below average midfield for the last 6 plus years. He has been a mainstay in that midfield. He has had good games when all the focus has been on Jack Steven. Just look at the proof over the last 2 years. When has an direct opponent sat and tagged Seb Ross?? I'll give you the answer, never. There is a reason for that.

BnF?? everyone in the world thought that Marshall should have won last years best and fairest and how Ross won and even came top 3 is an absolute mystery.

Pull you head in and watch some games and you will see what every half knowledgeable person can see when it comes to Seb Ross.

 

[pebblesofsand]

i think we put far tooo much hope that a coach will do it for us ... the fact is the 22 guys on the field need to be up for the challange if not you can have Yabbie Mathews Clarko lyon Ratten or Richo in the box and it wont make a fiddle of differance ...
what i hope is that the team take a hard look at themselves and have a think about the "non negotiables" of pulling on that red white and black jumper ... i want our team to play with a little bit of pride ... because that effort was worse than anything Richo coached us .. at least with richo we could say he didnt have the cattle to compeate ... we had the cattle .. we were up 6 goals ! they were down 2 players and Fyfe was eased into the game clearly playing hampered .. we had a 9 day break to freshen up .. and were on a neutral ground (in fact one of the only grounds we have managed to win at over the last few years away from home)...

Yep - rewatch the last qtr - not even a hint of a fight until it was too late.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

agree 100% with this

having said that i think we are overplaying Longmuir here, who to be honest, seems very very light on to be a senior coach. he didn't come up with these magical game day tactics of his own volition. he was forcibly put down that road for what they had available.

he didn't develop fyfe or walters or brayshaw. he's inherited it. all he did was put his best players on ball and go in small because of who he had available.

in my eyes we lost this. freo didn't win it.

the two way running at times is fu**in deplorable and was on show against the pies in pre-season.

oh dont get me wrong ... Longmuir is a potato as a coach and will join the list of Drum Neesham & Connelly as spud coaches ....
but he managed to get his teams leaders to rally their troops when their backs were to the wall and thats something Ratts couldnt do .. that may be a big part in who Freo have as leaders compared with who we have but when the chips were down Ratts only move was to flick Jake forward ... not really masterstroke moves

 

[bird_man]

oh dont get me wrong ... Longmuir is a potato as a coach and will join the list of Drum Neesham & Connelly as spud coaches ....
but he managed to get his teams leaders to rally their troops when their backs were to the wall and thats something Ratts couldnt do .. that may be a big part in who Freo have as leaders compared with who we have but when the chips were down Ratts only move was to flick Jake forward ... not really masterstroke moves

After 6 games you think you know Longmuir is a potato of a coach....

Sure

 

[plugger66]

oh dont get me wrong ... Longmuir is a potato as a coach and will join the list of Drum Neesham & Connelly as spud coaches ....
but he managed to get his teams leaders to rally their troops when their backs were to the wall and thats something Ratts couldnt do .. that may be a big part in who Freo have as leaders compared with who we have but when the chips were down Ratts only move was to flick Jake forward ... not really masterstroke moves

How would anyone know yet of longmuir is good or bad. 6 games. Really.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Ratten can’t make the players play with effort and intensity. That’s mental application, certain players have folded time and time again when they have been tested. Time to move them on.
The behaviour you tolerate, is the the behaviour you accept.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Yep - rewatch the last qtr - not even a hint of a fight until it was too late.

come out at half time and bring that fight from the last 6 mins we prob over power freo and win... bring it at three qtr time we prob hang on to win the game ... brining it in the last push of the game and well we know what happened

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

After 6 games you think you know Longmuir is a potato of a coach....

Sure

no after watching him as a player then an assistant coch seeing him speak at various engagments over the years i say he will be a potato coach .... but thats just my opinoin im not claiming it as a fact i just dont rate him and think Freo made the wrong call on him as coach

 

[malevu]

Gotta love this hub business. Send us packing to Noosa together with teams we've mostly already played, then make us fly across the country twice in 5 days to play in Adelaide. I thought the idea of the hubs was so that you could drop anchor interstate and play a round robin of sorts there. Like Adelaide, Port and the Eagles did.

 

[BrutThough]

Not true - penalties are handed out based on a range of factors all of which are challengeable if the matter goes to tribunal.

We plea bargained an outcome on the basis that if you don't argue and you won't give you a longer sentence. That's not justice - that's blackmail.

Unsurprising that it happened with Long and not Shiel or Rowan.

Long is the only one who caused injury and prevented said player from finishing the game. Of course his penalty is worse.

We argued that the incident was on the lowest end of the scale in terms of the boxes it had to tick. 3 weeks was the lowest possible outcome he could have got in the circumstances.

The AFL isn't against us and the club didn't do anything wrong by Long by accepting this penalty.

Also worth noting that even if both St Kilda and the AFL agreed that the penalty should be 3 weeks, the AFL tribunal didnt have to accept that penalty if the case both sides presented didnt support that outcome. They could have easily come back with 4 or 5 games if they really wanted too.

 

[bird_man]

Lethlean saying that Hill and Ross are definitely under pressure this week, but mentioned they had runs on the board which suggests they play.

Sounds like they are on notice though.

My prediction would be

Out: Marsh, Kent, Long

In: Ryder, Sinclair, Byrnes

 

[George]

he got his colours lowered by Longmuir in that game yep ....
two coaches had a team that at one stage of the game being totally outplayed ... one coach managed to get his team to stem that and fight their way back .. the other didnt ..

Ratts is the coach its on him to get the players up and about he didnt ... much like when Ratts coached Carlton when they were good they looked really really good but two way running wasnt their big thing ... its only a very very small sample size yes but Ratts hasnt done anything yet to convince me he is the guru/messiah that after a few wins everyone thinks he is

i think we put far tooo much hope that a coach will do it for us ... the fact is the 22 guys on the field need to be up for the challange if not you can have Yabbie Mathews Clarko lyon Ratten or Richo in the box and it wont make a fiddle of differance ...

Now I'm confused.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Everyone in the club deserves a spray after last week - no way should the coaches get let off lightly.

36 points up against a team that simply decided to drop numbers back and counter-attack and we don’t adjust our strategy at all and just play into their hands? Sure, blame the players mainly but in no way we should be letting our coaches of the hook either.

We wouldn’t have let Richo off the hook (rightly). Ratts and co. had a pretty awful day in the coaches box against Freo in my opinion.

 

[mightymalaka]

late in the game yeah i agree its on the players .. but Ratts had half time to build them back up .. he had three qtr time to get them fired up ... it was the players in the last 6 mins who decided that "wait we might lose this" so put in the effort but it was too little too late
thats on the coach in my opinion

The main responsibility for a coach on game day is to prepare well and bring his team to play!
On that level a 6 goal advantage at quarter time interstate was job done and something that never happened under Richo's tenure!

The debacle that happened after that is wholely and solely on the players. Plus considering the way all the momentum was going after the 2nd and 3rd quarters. He did at least elicit a response at 3 quarter time!

 

[George]

Deplorable is a strong word.
I don't believe that Ratten is a messiah but IMO when a team has all the momentum and a sizeable lead and it swings completely in the opposite direction then the players need to bear most of the responsibility.

It's quite obvious the loss was on the players, the same as it was in Round 1. Anyone who says it's coaching either didn't watch the game or are being purposefully obtuse.

Interesting that those that have said it's a coaching issue didn't really bother to argue their point with any evidence - nothing about structural changes that lost us the game, nothing about matchups or directive. Unless you are in the coaches box you don't have a clue. But when you're six goals up after 15 minutes then clearly something is working. We didn't just "get outcoached" for three quarters. Our players thought the job was done. They are immature and inexperienced, they don't know how to win. No defensive running, hack balls into the fifty, and a complete lack of work ethic when we were challenged cannot be arrested by the coach - it has to be done by the people directly responsible for addressing and changing it - the players.

 

[Plugger35]

oh dont get me wrong ... Longmuir is a potato as a coach and will join the list of Drum Neesham & Connelly as spud coaches ....
but he managed to get his teams leaders to rally their troops when their backs were to the wall and thats something Ratts couldnt do .. that may be a big part in who Freo have as leaders compared with who we have but when the chips were down Ratts only move was to flick Jake forward ... not really masterstroke moves

The fact that Freo had been at the Gold Coast for about a month and were more used to the stadium and the conditions may have also been a factor along with the fact that we had to travel to Noosa and then have a 3 hour bus trip to the ground the morning of the game.

That's still no excuse for throwing away the lead we had but there were some extenuating circumstances. West Coast were terrible in their first game on the Gold Coast losing to the Suns and they didn't have a bus trip from Noosa to contend with.

Gotta love this hub business. Send us packing to Noosa together with teams we've mostly already played, then make us fly across the country twice in 5 days to play in Adelaide. I thought the idea of the hubs was so that you could drop anchor interstate and play a round robin of sorts there. Like Adelaide, Port and the Eagles did.

We seem to have copped a raw deal with our hub set up, so far everyone else in hubs have only played games where they are staying but I'm assuming that other clubs will also have to fly in and fly out of SA to play games there unless their govt allows clubs to hub there without the need to quarantine.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Long is the only one who caused injury and prevented said player from finishing the game. Of course his penalty is worse.

We argued that the incident was on the lowest end of the scale in terms of the boxes it had to tick. 3 weeks was the lowest possible outcome he could have got in the circumstances.

The AFL isn't against us and the club didn't do anything wrong by Long by accepting this penalty.

Also worth noting that even if both St Kilda and the AFL agreed that the penalty should be 3 weeks, the AFL tribunal didnt have to accept that penalty if the case both sides presented didnt support that outcome. They could have easily come back with 4 or 5 games if they really wanted too.

Yes - so its exactly as I said - plea bargained on the threat of a longer suspension - thats blackmail not justice because the defendent is forced to accept guilt without the capacity to raise the possibility of error by the prosecution.

Flawed concept in the justice system developed purely to speed up the courts - even more flawed in the AFL.

 

[jwikked]

Lethlean saying that Hill and Ross are definitely under pressure this week, but mentioned they had runs on the board which suggests they play.

Sounds like they are on notice though.

My prediction would be

Out: Marsh, Kent, Long

In: Ryder, Sinclair, Byrnes

Can't see Hill or Ross getting dropped unless Hannebery comes back in. They can't have a midfield without a leader type player, even though I don't see how Ross is considered one - he's still the VC.

 

[BrutThough]

Yes - so its exactly as I said - plea bargained on the threat of a longer suspension - thats blackmail not justice because the defendent is forced to accept guilt without the capacity to raise the possibility of error by the prosecution.

Flawed concept in the justice system developed purely to speed up the courts - even more flawed in the AFL.

We presented our case to explain why 3 weeks - the lowest possible suspension - was adequate. Which we did successfully. That is all.

You're really over exaggerating this.

 

[plugger66]

It's quite obvious the loss was on the players, the same as it was in Round 1. Anyone who says it's coaching either didn't watch the game or are being purposefully obtuse.

Interesting that those that have said it's a coaching issue didn't really bother to argue their point with any evidence - nothing about structural changes that lost us the game, nothing about matchups or directive. Unless you are in the coaches box you don't have a clue. But when you're six goals up after 15 minutes then clearly something is working. We didn't just "get outcoached" for three quarters. Our players thought the job was done. They are immature and inexperienced, they don't know how to win. No defensive running, hack balls into the fifty, and a complete lack of work ethic when we were challenged cannot be arrested by the coach - it has to be done by the people directly responsible for addressing and changing it - the players.

It’s got to be on everyone including the coaches. To argue otherwise is letting one group off the hook. Freo changed how they played after quarter time according to those who have more information than a tv screen. We didn’t have the ability to counter act it. That is again on both If that sort thing happens once you could forgive it but twice in 6 games says it’s a problem on both sides.

 

[plugger66]

Yes - so its exactly as I said - plea bargained on the threat of a longer suspension - thats blackmail not justice because the defendent is forced to accept guilt without the capacity to raise the possibility of error by the prosecution.

Flawed concept in the justice system developed purely to speed up the courts - even more flawed in the AFL.

You still are yet to say which grading we should have challenged. Consistent

 

[The_Steadier]

I doubt he will swing the axe.
I will happily eat my words and apologise to the entire board for my lack of faith and foresight if none of this occurs but I expect the following:
No debuts.
Adel will defend deep and hope to run it out via the wings. Simple game plan but it will work.
O'Reilly will beat Marshall again.
We will start off sluggishly as we had to travel. (this time by plane).
Adel will kick five goals in the third led by the Crouch brothers.
We will mount a feeble two goal comeback in the last.

I hope I am apologising post-game but after the season ending debacle v Frem, I won't care probably.

That's the spirit!

 

[George]

It’s got to be on everyone including the coaches. To argue otherwise is letting one group off the hook. Freo changed how they played after quarter time according to those who have more information than a tv screen. We didn’t have the ability to counter act it. That is again on both If that sort thing happens once you could forgive it but twice in 6 games says it’s a problem on both sides.

Disagree, the players should have the capability to see out a six goal lead in shortened quarters. It's all on the players, they need to wake up.

 

[plugger66]

Disagree, the players should have the capability to see out a six goal lead in shortened quarters. It's all on the players, they need to wake up.

And I could easily say the coaches had 2 breaks to make a game plan to hold onto the lead in shortened quarters. It’s certainly on the players as it’s certainly on the coaches. 2 times in 6 games suggests both are at fault.