Preview Round 7, 2020: Adelaide v St.Kilda - Adelaide Oval, Monday 20th July, 7:40PM AEST *BYRNES DEBUT*

[StCicatriz]

exactly ... its a team effort and to say its 100% the players is protecting the guys whos job is to direct the players ...
a great team is a unit working together by Georges reasoning the Coching staff had it all right but the players didnt implemnt the instructions given to them .. if thats the case then it lands on the coaching staff for not having the control of the team it also lands on the players for not following task ...

depends what attitude the club wants to have. do they want to see these hubs as they're all in it together and there's a shared responsibility for outcomes. or do they want to see the playing group separate to the club.

personally i think it's mostly on the players, but i can't exclude the rest of club from this. you usually have a cumulative affect of failures that leads to massive events like this.

i am worried that Rattens style of football, whilst it will work against the bottom sides/out of form sides, may not be conducive to finals teams. its very run and gun type of brand with little two way running. we are prone to being cut open on the turn over. we've seen this against norf, pies and freo. prone to contested football with match winning mids.

many posters on here have been calling for moments in the game where we move the ball slowly and with purpose, using short pass leads. this hasn't happened yet. where as a brisbane under fagan were doing this from day 1. so it's no surprise that ratt's has raised that one of their issues was their mark play on was too high and we needed to slow it down. lewis was in the media claiming the hawks would normally slow the game down after they piled on 3 goals to zap the opposition of momentum and turn it into a real grind. he also said towards the end experienced players know 3 minutes is a long time in footy so they would have been patient finding an avenue to goal for the win. we did neither. tbh i haven't seen us do either under ratts or richo. our method of footy is this fast and lightning approach, with very little else in the kit bag.

this is out of everyones control but i feel we massively missed roughead. which goes to show what a great pick up he is. but it also shows the short comings of the rest of the coaching panel. it's why i'd be chasing burgoyne massively when ever he wants out of hawthorn.

the structure i felt was too tall up forward. battle marsh king membrey. it's just too many.

in terms the administration, does anyone know what's going on with the logistics here. why were we at noosa? a 2.5 hour drive away? carlton were originally placed there but canned it pretty quickly. why are we then flying back from adelaide and not staying there? isn't it a 5 day turn around?

i'm not trying to give the players an out but a 2.5 hour drive on game day is ****in bizarre stuff. people will point to wce and freo travelling, but they never travel 2.5 hours on game day!!!! they travel a day or two before. they travel home after the game though.

it's like us playing games in perth then deciding to stay in a hotel at Margaret river. just truly bizarre. great for a surf and some wine. but that's not what we are in WA for!!!

so i think there's shared responsibility between the players, coaches and administration for this result. you can't separate them.

 

[BangersAndMash]

Thank you for the rebuke and sagely advise. You are clearly a master of wisdom and words I clearly deserve to have such a lesson from someone with such a clever intellect. It’s that simple as is your post.
Can you please post more on noddy and big ears go to the footy oh simple one.

Let's just all have a whinge then. That'll make everything better!

 

[Remboy]

depends what attitude the club wants to have. do they want to see these hubs as they're all in it together and there's a shared responsibility for outcomes. or do they want to see the playing group separate to the club.

personally i think it's mostly on the players, but i can't exclude the rest of club from this. you usually have a cumulative affect of failures that leads to massive events like this.

i am worried that Rattens style of football, whilst it will work against the bottom sides/out of form sides, may not be conducive to finals teams. its very run and gun type of brand with little two way running. we are prone to being cut open on the turn over. we've seen this against norf, pies and freo.

many posters on here have been calling for moments in the game where we move the ball slowly and with purpose, using short pass leads. this hasn't happened yet. where as a brisbane under fagan were doing this from day 1. so it's no surprise that ratt's has raised that one of their issues was their mark play on was too high and we needed to slow it down. lewis was in the media claiming the hawks would normally slow the game down after they piled on 3 goals to zap the opposition of momentum and turn it into a real grind. he also said towards the end experienced players know 3 minutes is a long time in footy so they would have been patient finding an avenue to goal for the win. we did neither. tbh i haven't seen us do either under ratts or richo. our method of footy is this fast and lightning approach, with very little else in the kit bag.

this is out of everyones control but i feel we massively missed roughead. which goes to show what a great pick up he is. but it also shows the short comings of the rest of the coaching panel.

the structure i felt was too tall up forward. battle marsh king membrey. it's just too many.

in terms the administration, does anyone know what's going on with the logistics here. why were we at noosa? a 2.5 hour drive away? carlton were originally placed there but canned it pretty quickly. why are we then flying back from adelaide and not staying there? isn't it a 5 day turn around?

i'm not trying to give the players an out but a 2.5 hour drive on game day is fu**in bizarre stuff. people will point to wce and freo travelling, but they never travel 2.5 hours on game day!!!! they travel a day or two before. they travel home after the game though.

it's like us playing games in perth then deciding to stay in a hotel at Margaret river. just truly bizarre. great for a surf and some wine. but that's not what we are in WA for!!!

so i think there's shared responsibility between the players, coaches and administration for this result. you can't separate them.

I heard that if we stayed in SA we would be locked up between the two games. In Noosa we can do our own thing.
In regard to Rattan it's probably too early to say but at this point it seems as though we're great when we have the momentum. The problem is that no team ever has the momentum for the entire match. Once we lose it we can't stop the opposition or get it back. Hopefully it's something that can be fixed.

 

[StCicatriz]

I heard that if we stayed in SA we would be locked up between the two games. In Noosa we can do our own thing.
In regard to Rattan it's probably too early to say but at this point it seems as though we're great when we have the momentum. The problem is that no team ever has the momentum for the entire match. Once we lose it we can't stop the opposition or get it back. Hopefully it's something that can be fixed.

agree 100% with that last comment.

which is why i think its important we have moments in games, even if we are in front by 30 or down by 30, where we slow everything down. let the opposition flood back if they want to. where we concentrate on moving the ball around with a short possession game and try and find a way to score.

similar to when brisbane almost beat port adelaide at adelaide oval a couple years back.

we also need to have moments where we just grind on them with the aim to stop all scoring. again even if we are up by 30 or down by 30. if we are up by 30 maybe we do it when they actually kick one.

its about developing our game. having more game awareness and management. its about having more strings to our bow on what we can do in different scenarios.

 

[Premium]

After last week I'm not willing to say what will happen this week - I just want to win

 

[saintsgirl5]

After last week I'm not willing to say what will happen this week - I just want to win

Yep, don’t care how we do it, don’t care how ugly it is, as long as it’s a WIN!!!!

 

[SaintKing23]

Geary Carlisle Wilkie
Clark Dougs Webster
Hill Jones Billings
Gresh King Sinclair
Butler Ryder Membrey
R: Marshall, Steele, Byrnes
I/C: Coffield, Bytel, Paton, Parker


Unlikely we have this many changes but with a rod-spanking and our season on the line, with some fresh faces, we should still win this by 30+

 

[AirWinmar]

Couldn't agree more.

Gresham is our best clearance player this year. He's clearly having issues with his kicking at the moment but he showed on the weekend he's the type of of player that can turn a game in the midfield.

I'd expect his kicking to improve with more time and coaching.

Walters is a very good comparison. It took until his mid 20's until he started having a real impact in the midfield.

Would love to see Gresham sneak forward and kick more goals at the moment, but we also need to preserver with him in the middle.

I see Gresh like this. Eventually we will get the most out of him as a mid fwd pocket around a 50% split. He has shown what he can do as a fwd pocket - tick.

Now he is developing his midfield game, which as far as winning clearances he is already probably our best as well as breaking out of stoppages. His goal kicking has gone backwards, probably because he is more focussed on developing his midfield work and/or is spent when having shots for goal. His kicking can be pretty good, but he tries to wind up and kick the leather off it or kick the leather off it around his body a lot breaking out of a stoppage - with more time this should be able to be coached.

He is only 22..

 

[StCicatriz]

I see Gresh like this. Eventually we will get the most out of him as a mid fwd pocket around a 50% split. He has shown what he can do as a fwd pocket - tick.

Now he is developing his midfield game, which as far as winning clearances he is already probably our best as well as breaking out of stoppages. His goal kicking has gone backwards, probably because he is more focussed on developing his midfield work and/or is spent when having shots for goal. His kicking can be pretty good, but he tries to wind up and kick the leather off it or kick the leather off it around his body a lot breaking out of a stoppage - with more time this should be able to be coached.

He is only 22..

reminds me a bit of Aker for Brisbane. he's the type ya can swing forward to win a close grand final.

but i think he needs the pieces around him like a michael voss, simon black etc.

he just isn't the type to really drive a side forward. he's a bit more of the icing. like a billings & hill.

we just need to find a big work horse to go with Steele.

 

[BigPowerForward]

I know your not talking to me. But I've been following the Saints for a dam long time and I've watched Ross's Charmed career since he came in and can assure my opinion on his value/worthlessness is based on having a very long memory!

Any mention of the name Seb Ross and this forum lights up!

 

[Stewart66]

depends what attitude the club wants to have. do they want to see these hubs as they're all in it together and there's a shared responsibility for outcomes. or do they want to see the playing group separate to the club.

personally i think it's mostly on the players, but i can't exclude the rest of club from this. you usually have a cumulative affect of failures that leads to massive events like this.

i am worried that Rattens style of football, whilst it will work against the bottom sides/out of form sides, may not be conducive to finals teams. its very run and gun type of brand with little two way running. we are prone to being cut open on the turn over. we've seen this against norf, pies and freo. prone to contested football with match winning mids.

many posters on here have been calling for moments in the game where we move the ball slowly and with purpose, using short pass leads. this hasn't happened yet. where as a brisbane under fagan were doing this from day 1. so it's no surprise that ratt's has raised that one of their issues was their mark play on was too high and we needed to slow it down. lewis was in the media claiming the hawks would normally slow the game down after they piled on 3 goals to zap the opposition of momentum and turn it into a real grind. he also said towards the end experienced players know 3 minutes is a long time in footy so they would have been patient finding an avenue to goal for the win. we did neither. tbh i haven't seen us do either under ratts or richo. our method of footy is this fast and lightning approach, with very little else in the kit bag.

this is out of everyones control but i feel we massively missed roughead. which goes to show what a great pick up he is. but it also shows the short comings of the rest of the coaching panel. it's why i'd be chasing burgoyne massively when ever he wants out of hawthorn.

the structure i felt was too tall up forward. battle marsh king membrey. it's just too many.

in terms the administration, does anyone know what's going on with the logistics here. why were we at noosa? a 2.5 hour drive away? carlton were originally placed there but canned it pretty quickly. why are we then flying back from adelaide and not staying there? isn't it a 5 day turn around?

i'm not trying to give the players an out but a 2.5 hour drive on game day is fu**in bizarre stuff. people will point to wce and freo travelling, but they never travel 2.5 hours on game day!!!! they travel a day or two before. they travel home after the game though.

it's like us playing games in perth then deciding to stay in a hotel at Margaret river. just truly bizarre. great for a surf and some wine. but that's not what we are in WA for!!!

so i think there's shared responsibility between the players, coaches and administration for this result. you can't separate them.

With absolute respect chalk & cheese between Ratten & Richardson

In all facets of the game too.

 

[StCicatriz]

With absolute respect chalk & cheese between Ratten & Richardson

In all facets of the game too.

i agree 100%

which is something i touch on in the freo thread.

i specifically mentioned that atleast this shit is occurring before the half way mark of year 1 and not year 3-4 of richo.

but when it comes to slowing it down and implementing different things, i haven't seen this under ratts. until that happens its exactly the same observation made with richo. we've just fixed the offensive under ratts and played with this breakneck speed. there's no other elements in there. this has to change and i reckon will change.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Let's just all have a whinge then. That'll make everything better!

Who was whinging, I was having a conversation with another poster, not you but no I’ve got a better suggestion why don’t we just pull out a few more platitudes to go with your adversity one. Here’s one “let’s take it one week at a time” or one of my favourites “ you get out of it what you put in” or how about “the bigger they are the harder they fall”.
Then let’s just throw in it’s that simple like you’ve got it all figured out in one stupid cliche. Nothing like this is simple.
Love your posting though LOL

 

[ScrappyDo]

i agree 100%

which is something i touch on in the freo thread.

i specifically mentioned that atleast this sh*t is occurring before the half way mark of year 1 and not year 3-4 of richo.

but when it comes to slowing it down and implementing different things, i haven't seen this under ratts. until that happens its exactly the same observation made with richo. we've just fixed the offensive under ratts and played with this breakneck speed. there's no other elements in there. this has to change and i reckon will change.

It's just the immaturity and inexperience of the side.
A bunch of games together and a couple of key changes will make us a finals contender.
And like you say, at least it's happening now and not in 3 years.
Philosophically it's good because we're getting to sort the wheat from the chaff in the first half of the first year.

We also tend to forget that it's not just Ratts in charge. Rath and Lethers are monumentally better over site than we're used to, and I've total confidence that they'll hold Ratts, the coaching group and the players to account, and will swing the axe wherever needed.

 

[malevu]

I'm not seeing it with Howard. He looks like a GOP. Like a taller Zac Dawson.

He hasn't set the world on fire yet but I think there's a big upside with him. He's worth his place in the team as an upgrade on Nathan Brown alone. However, he is a seriously good mark who has more strings to his bow than we've seen so far. Would probably make a better CHB than FB but Carlisle is in the same boat.

Give him more time, I think he'll win you over.

 

[malevu]

Brisbane will be laughing with the Queensland news. Their Premierships odds will surely tumble now even allowing for their home final losses last season.

 

[FQFjt]

I'm not seeing it with Howard. He looks like a GOP. Like a taller Zac Dawson.

GOP defenders like Zac Dawson don't get forced into going into the forward line. It's the defenders with the elite marking and reading ability who tempt coaches to turn them into forwards.

Agree we haven't seen much yet, but it's very early days and he hasn't committed any blunders.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I would argue that Hill has been pretty good in our wins so has some credits, but Ross?
Ross has been deplorable all year, misses targets, indecisive, slows the play with ball in hand, does stupid over the handball to nobodies advantage,and gets caught with the ball at least once a game.

To me he has zero credits.

Agree if we had options Ross should be the 1st dropped this week - but we dont.

 

[FQFjt]

Agree if we had options Ross should be the 1st dropped this week - but we dont.

Are neither of Byrnes or Bytel a viable option?

 

[borderbarry]

Three people I want to mention. Ben Long. Rohan Marshall. Brett Ratten.

Longy, typical of the man ironed out the biggest player in the opposing team. I thought he hit him with his back, so how is that even reportable?

Rohan Marshall. He is still a young ruckman. After being reported he may have held himself back, as he seems to have played poorer for the remainder of the game. He will probably improve with the incusion of Paddy this week.

Brett Ratten in his time as coach of Carlton had a 50% win rate, same as he had with us last year, and he is there again. I am hoping he can improve this figure over the balance of the season.

 

[borderbarry]

Seb Ross, Some posters just have to have someone to take over Raph Clarke's mantle for someone to bag.

 

[StCicatriz]

It's just the immaturity and inexperience of the side.
A bunch of games together and a couple of key changes will make us a finals contender.
And like you say, at least it's happening now and not in 3 years.
Philosophically it's good because we're getting to sort the wheat from the chaff in the first half of the first year.

We also tend to forget that it's not just Ratts in charge. Rath and Lethers are monumentally better over site than we're used to, and I've total confidence that they'll hold Ratts, the coaching group and the players to account, and will swing the axe wherever needed.

agree entirely mate

it sucks but maybe we need a year like this with some really good football but just missing out on finals. similar to lyon in 2007. for exactly as you said "philosophically it's good because we're getting to sort the wheat from the chaff in the first half of the first year.".

maybe a game like this is beneficial the coaches might start to put more emphasis on other areas, like controlling the tempo, grinding it out or having other means of scoring or halting scoring.

it might drive the need to find more midfield options etc.

lots of positives could come out of this

what if we debut some like byrnes/bytel and he has an impact inside? or what if someone like ross starts to perform consistently or maybe he doesn't and it means we move him on for a better prospect.

 

[borderbarry]

I still wish we had given Banger a go as coach.

 

[Impatient Saint]

Are neither of Byrnes or Bytel a viable option?

Cant expect to throw 1st gamers into the middle and carry the load of an older mid. 20 or 30% midfield is more likely.

As far as Howard is concerned I think he is a confidence player and when he gets it (which comes with experience) he will be a very very good player.

 

[gringo2011]

He hasn't set the world on fire yet but I think there's a big upside with him. He's worth his place in the team as an upgrade on Nathan Brown alone. However, he is a seriously good mark who has more strings to his bow than we've seen so far. Would probably make a better CHB than FB but Carlisle is in the same boat.

Give him more time, I think he'll win you over.

I think he’s probably behind Brown still but has much more scope to improve at his age. Brown was on his last season at best. Howard must have played good footy at Port for us to get such a hard on for him.