Autopsy Round 8 vs Adelaide Rant Thread

[Stickler]

I couldn't believe when I was told Adelaide were paying 2.85.

I expected, but take no joy from profiting from this.

I will put the winnings towards a golf lesson.

I hope every man/he-she respects this.

Golf is a **** of a game.

Kinda Haiku?

edit

 

[RiCHii]

Am yet to let this all off my chest so it will be a great feeling and will try to offload everything without draining it.

Firstly, Finals are starting to look more and more like a pipedream for this football club if we continue to dish up poor performances like we did last Monday and Yesterday.

Secondly, and unfortunatly, we could kiss our fairytale cinderella story of a Carlton man(Ratts) taking us from bottom of the ladder and our darkest days to the glory of winning a premiership and the long awaited number 17, and this is so because he will be sacked by the end of the year. Do I agree with it? No and this leads into point number 3

To many players believing their own hype, perhaps some sort of media ban should be placed on players. Gibbs, Hampson, Russell, Bower and many many more playing like millionairs. The biggest one for mine is Gibbs, that boy, number 1 draft pick and I know they don't always work out but all the expectation in the world on him and the skills are defintly there but lacks heart, courage and passion.

My last point, and the most important point, WHAT THE HELL EVER HAPPENED TO STANDING BY YOUR TEAM MATES, Murphy got absolutly smashed yesterday and not one player thought "gee this bloke just potentially ended one of our most important players years, lets get into him, lets give him a hard time" no instead the same bloke that just injured marc murphy was allowed to continue playing to be man of the match with out any worrys in the world, and I know that it may have been accidental or whatever but seriously WEAK from the CFC.

It's defintly getting harder and harder to support this club.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I have to agree that we have no real excuses for our form since injuries to players who previously would have been outside our top 10. Our team should be able to sustain those sort of losses.

Sure, injury to Murphy now gives us some excuse for the time he is out but we were losing that game anyway and the die was set.

We needed to progress or at least not go backwards with other positives to be taken from the year for Ratts not to be under the microscope. There are precious few positives to be taken out of the season so far.

 

[RiCHii]

I have to agree that we have no real excuses for our form since injuries to players who previously would have been outside our top 10. Our team should be able to sustain those sort of losses.

Sure, injury to Murphy now gives us some excuse for the time he is out but we were losing that game anyway and the die was set.

We needed to progress or at least not go backwards with other positives to be taken from the year for Ratts not to be under the microscope. There are precious few positives to be taken out of the season so far.

Ratten will be sacked come end of the year as we will not progress further than 5th on the ladder and to no progress is considered a failure and therefor it is always considered to be the coaches fault. Poor Ratts will be sacked on account of weak, soft millionair footballers. Must seriously change things if we want to improve on last year.

 

[harmesy 37]

Our team selection is yet again all wrong.

The bottom 4 players chosen for Carlton is vital considering how top heavy we are in talent.


1) two ruckmen


The age of having two ruckmen in the team with no other noticable benefits IS GONE. Adelaide, Collingwood, Sydney, Essendon - 1 ruckman is enough. Gives more space for midfield rotations.

Adelaide had Jacobs, We had Kreuzer and Hampson. They ruck and do nothing else. Carlton won the 1995 flag with one ruckman and support from Kouta/Spalding.

Adelaide yesterday had just Jacobs with Tippett (a forward) providing ruck support when in the forward line.


2) today's congestion

Why don't ruckmen ever punch the ball clear of congestion? ie get the game moving..instead of deftlying palming it down to a player set upon by 8 others around a ruck contest.


3) Kane Lucas...is a developing player but he is a link up player who can create run on and play on footy. Get him back in the team. He is ninth in the team in goals contributed and played half the amount of games as others.

4) Thornton - could have blocked/sheparded through the ball in the 2nd quarter for a vital goal. Didn't and allowed the bloke to smash it out of his hands = selfish football. Game turning football just there.

 

[pepalenko]

Our team selection is yet again all wrong.

The bottom 4 players chosen for Carlton is vital considering how top heavy we are in talent.


1) two ruckmen


The age of having two ruckmen in the team with no other noticable benefits IS GONE. Adelaide, Collingwood, Sydney, Essendon - 1 ruckman is enough. Gives more space for midfield rotations.

Adelaide had Jacobs, We had Kreuzer and Hampson. They ruck and do nothing else. Carlton won the 1995 flag with one ruckman and support from Kouta/Spalding.

Adelaide yesterday had just Jacobs with Tippett (a forward) providing ruck support when in the forward line.


2) today's congestion

Why don't ruckmen ever punch the ball clear of congestion? ie get the game moving..instead of deftlying palming it down to a player set upon by 8 others around a ruck contest.


3) Kane Lucas...is a developing player but he is a link up player who can create run on and play on footy. Get him back in the team. He is ninth in the team in goals contributed and played half the amount of games as others.

4) Thornton - could have blocked/sheparded through the ball in the 2nd quarter for a vital goal. Didn't and allowed the bloke to smash it out of his hands = selfish football. Game turning football just there.

Can't really fault any of these points

 

[95blues]

Can't really fault any of these points

Except for point 3.

All we had on the weekend was "link up" players, just chilling outside the packs waiting for Judd to get them the ball. Another seagull wont help any. And thats not a knock on Lucas either, i rate him as a Simpson replacement in due time.

We hear all this talk about Kreuzer being an extra midfielder, well lets give him a go around clearances, we know he blocks and sheperds and is definitely big enough to clear some space. Even if he doesnt get 20 touches, having a big body like that contesting the ball at stoppages will open things up.

Worth a bit of experimentation anyway.

 

[serenityNow]

Am yet to let this all off my chest so it will be a great feeling and will try to offload everything without draining it.

Firstly, Finals are starting to look more and more like a pipedream for this football club if we continue to dish up poor performances like we did last Monday and Yesterday.

Secondly, and unfortunatly, we could kiss our fairytale cinderella story of a Carlton man(Ratts) taking us from bottom of the ladder and our darkest days to the glory of winning a premiership and the long awaited number 17, and this is so because he will be sacked by the end of the year. Do I agree with it? No and this leads into point number 3

To many players believing their own hype, perhaps some sort of media ban should be placed on players. Gibbs, Hampson, Russell, Bower and many many more playing like millionairs. The biggest one for mine is Gibbs, that boy, number 1 draft pick and I know they don't always work out but all the expectation in the world on him and the skills are defintly there but lacks heart, courage and passion.

My last point, and the most important point, WHAT THE HELL EVER HAPPENED TO STANDING BY YOUR TEAM MATES, Murphy got absolutly smashed yesterday and not one player thought "gee this bloke just potentially ended one of our most important players years, lets get into him, lets give him a hard time" no instead the same bloke that just injured marc murphy was allowed to continue playing to be man of the match with out any worrys in the world, and I know that it may have been accidental or whatever but seriously WEAK from the CFC.

It's defintly getting harder and harder to support this club.

Disagree. It was just one of those unfortunate things that happen when two guys go in real hard for the ball, Murphy just came off second best....no blame on Dangerfield for mine.

What i didn't like seeing was Murphy again given a close checking tag and not one carlton player come in and let Van Berlo know that we weren't gonna cop this crap again after the saints game.....i mean all it takes is 3 or 4 blokes just to take in turns in bashing and crashing him at every stoppage....getting in his ear etc, but NO again we worry about ourselves and don't do the team things.

 

[Big Red is back]

Ratten will be sacked come end of the year as we will not progress further than 5th on the ladder and to no progress is considered a failure and therefor it is always considered to be the coaches fault. Poor Ratts will be sacked on account of weak, soft millionair footballers. Must seriously change things if we want to improve on last year.

Who is ultimately responsible for motivating the players? the coach? feels like they have stopped playing for him, game structure is embarrassing.

 

[Big Red is back]

Our team selection is yet again all wrong.

The bottom 4 players chosen for Carlton is vital considering how top heavy we are in talent.


1) two ruckmen


The age of having two ruckmen in the team with no other noticable benefits IS GONE. Adelaide, Collingwood, Sydney, Essendon - 1 ruckman is enough. Gives more space for midfield rotations.

Adelaide had Jacobs, We had Kreuzer and Hampson. They ruck and do nothing else. Carlton won the 1995 flag with one ruckman and support from Kouta/Spalding.

Adelaide yesterday had just Jacobs with Tippett (a forward) providing ruck support when in the forward line.


2) today's congestion

Why don't ruckmen ever punch the ball clear of congestion? ie get the game moving..instead of deftlying palming it down to a player set upon by 8 others around a ruck contest.


3) Kane Lucas...is a developing player but he is a link up player who can create run on and play on footy. Get him back in the team. He is ninth in the team in goals contributed and played half the amount of games as others.

4) Thornton - could have blocked/sheparded through the ball in the 2nd quarter for a vital goal. Didn't and allowed the bloke to smash it out of his hands = selfish football. Game turning football just there.

Hammer is beyond useless , agreed K to ruck solo.

Hammer has zero impact when side struggles or game is on.. he did a couple of nice things when we were 10 goals up vs the pies and that is it.

 

[blue healer]

Our team selection is yet again all wrong.

The bottom 4 players chosen for Carlton is vital considering how top heavy we are in talent.


1) two ruckmen


The age of having two ruckmen in the team with no other noticable benefits IS GONE. Adelaide, Collingwood, Sydney, Essendon - 1 ruckman is enough. Gives more space for midfield rotations.

Adelaide had Jacobs, We had Kreuzer and Hampson. They ruck and do nothing else. Carlton won the 1995 flag with one ruckman and support from Kouta/Spalding.

Adelaide yesterday had just Jacobs with Tippett (a forward) providing ruck support when in the forward line.


2) today's congestion

Why don't ruckmen ever punch the ball clear of congestion? ie get the game moving..instead of deftlying palming it down to a player set upon by 8 others around a ruck contest.


3) Kane Lucas...is a developing player but he is a link up player who can create run on and play on footy. Get him back in the team. He is ninth in the team in goals contributed and played half the amount of games as others.

4) Thornton - could have blocked/sheparded through the ball in the 2nd quarter for a vital goal. Didn't and allowed the bloke to smash it out of his hands = selfish football. Game turning football just there.

Just from my point of view:

Point 1) We can play 2 ruckmen if one is FF (in a team that doesn't have a recognised FF). I can only judge from TV which can be confusing but from what I've been seeing it doesn't seem that either of our ruckmen spend as much time there as we need. Perhaps someone that attends games can refute this. I see Hampson's (or Kreuzers) role as something like you describe of Tippet. Interesting that Adelaide also use Jenkins as an occasional ruck as well.

2) Agree with this

3) Don't know where Lucas fits into our team. I just can't see him as a replacement for Curnow or Ellard (not that they're locks in our side) because he doesn't seem to be able to play in conjestion so who does he replace?

4) You pick out one piece of play (in a game in which we were smashed) and call it a game breaker to take the obligatory swipe at Thornton.

I've said before, going forward, I don't know whether Thornton has a role to play in our best team but at the moment he is our best third tall option and I believe we need this to eliminate the times Betts is one or two out against taller opponents. Thornton should not be seen as a replacement for Waite but as a compliment for him in a forward line that is not working.

Bear in mind that, with Waite out yesterday, we still had only one tall (Thornton) in our forward line without our ruck back up. Thornton is not a KPF.

 

[blue healer]

Disagree. It was just one of those unfortunate things that happen when two guys go in real hard for the ball, Murphy just came off second best....no blame on Dangerfield for mine.

What i didn't like seeing was Murphy again given a close checking tag and not one carlton player come in and let Van Berlo know that we weren't gonna cop this crap again after the saints game.....i mean all it takes is 3 or 4 blokes just to take in turns in bashing and crashing him at every stoppage....getting in his ear etc, but NO again we worry about ourselves and don't do the team things.

Good post and I agree in total.

Re Murphy tag, we've been saying the same thing about supporting Judd for years. It's now been passed on to Murph but will be back on Judd for a while. Don't seem to have anyone told to sacrifice their game to do this and certainly no one takes it on themselves.

I think there is a lot of self preservation (not necessarily physical) going on in the minds of our players ATM.

 

[mac25]

Just from my point of view:

Point 1) We can play 2 ruckmen if one is FF (in a team that doesn't have a recognised FF). I can only judge from TV which can be confusing but from what I've been seeing it doesn't seem that either of our ruckmen spend as much time there as we need. Perhaps someone that attends games can refute this. I see Hampson's (or Kreuzers) role as something like you describe of Tippet. Interesting that Adelaide also use Jenkins as an occasional ruck as well.

2) Agree with this

3) Don't know where Lucas fits into our team. I just can't see him as a replacement for Curnow or Ellard (not that they're locks in our side) because he doesn't seem to be able to play in conjestion so who does he replace?

4) You pick out one piece of play (in a game in which we were smashed) and call it a game breaker to take the obligatory swipe at Thornton.

I've said before, going forward, I don't know whether Thornton has a role to play in our best team but at the moment he is our best third tall option and I believe we need this to eliminate the times Betts is one or two out against taller opponents. Thornton should not be seen as a replacement for Waite but as a compliment for him in a forward line that is not working.

Bear in mind that, with Waite out yesterday, we still had only one tall (Thornton) in our forward line without our ruck back up. Thornton is not a KPF.

Both Hampson/Kruezer are not in the same class as Tippett as a forward target, the Hampson/Kruezer resting rucks at full forward IS NOT a long term solution for us, neither take enough marks or compete enough in this role.
We will need to look at other alternatives in this area if we are to become SERIOUS top 4 material.

 

[Madblue]

Apart from all the other issues discussed we are never going to win a flag without a key forward and no Waite is not a key forward !

Also Juddy is flogging himself into the ground and it wouldn't suprise me if he calls it quits in a couple of years if we aren't a premiership threat. How much more can this guys body take without anyone elses help ?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Adelaide's foot passing was fantastic - they just had to wait and they knew there would be a minimum of one team-mate, no matter how tired, who would run into space for them - makes kicking much easier

The difference between both sides ability to kick the football was enormous.

Do you think our zone defense just isn't good enough with our current work rate which allows good teams to just keep hitting up leading targets and cutting us up.

Maybe some time spent playing man on man all over the ground might serve us better.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Our team selection is yet again all wrong.

The bottom 4 players chosen for Carlton is vital considering how top heavy we are in talent.


1) two ruckmen


The age of having two ruckmen in the team with no other noticable benefits IS GONE. Adelaide, Collingwood, Sydney, Essendon - 1 ruckman is enough. Gives more space for midfield rotations.

Adelaide had Jacobs, We had Kreuzer and Hampson. They ruck and do nothing else. Carlton won the 1995 flag with one ruckman and support from Kouta/Spalding.

Adelaide yesterday had just Jacobs with Tippett (a forward) providing ruck support when in the forward line.


2) today's congestion

Why don't ruckmen ever punch the ball clear of congestion? ie get the game moving..instead of deftlying palming it down to a player set upon by 8 others around a ruck contest.


3) Kane Lucas...is a developing player but he is a link up player who can create run on and play on footy. Get him back in the team. He is ninth in the team in goals contributed and played half the amount of games as others.

4) Thornton - could have blocked/sheparded through the ball in the 2nd quarter for a vital goal. Didn't and allowed the bloke to smash it out of his hands = selfish football. Game turning football just there.

Must admit I thought the same initially as well.

The other piece of play that really annoyed me was when we passed to Walker in the 2nd quarter who made a lead to the pocket (which seems to be our forwards gameplan this year).

He went back for a set shot close to the boundary and tried the lowest % shot possible with a deliberate drop punt kick through the eye of the needle and not surprisingly failed miserably.

This annoyance increased when a short time later Josh Jenkins marked on the boundary line (was probably over the line) and he went back and calmly but skillfully increased his angle and % chances and slotted it through on his left foot.

I was amazed at how a player of Walkers experience couldn't do what a 2nd gamer and former basketballer could do.

Footy smarts we dont have, need some goal kicking help from Stevie J down at the Blues, He limits the chance of skill error with the way he goes about it!

 

[Azul]

Apart from all the other issues discussed we are never going to win a flag without a key forward and no Waite is not a key forward !

Geelong smashed Port Adelaide with Cam Mooney and Nathan Ablett.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I'm wondering if it's time to send Waite to CHB and Henderson to CHF?

Hendo has been fantastic as a backman but his cameo up forward yesterday impressed. Waite finds it difficult to get into the game as a forward and might be more use to us in the air down back...

/clutching at straws

 

[jj1978]

I know we're all feeling quite ill at what our team has put us through the last month or so, and so we all should be especially those of us that keep paying our memberships year after year to a club that hasn't really delivered us much joy for 11 years.

BUT...

There is some glimmer of hope, and it all rides with the mentality of this group.

In 1995 let us not forget our 2 loses..........to the teams that finished last.

Remember 2001.. Brisbane were beaten pillar to post on a few occassions in their first 9 rounds... their last loss was to us by 70+ points... then they won 16 straight.

The season for us is not yet over... injured players to come back, hopefully some confidence and anything is possible.

Let's keep some faith for a few more weeks before we make some damning final assesments.

Go Blues.

 

[Blue and Silver]

OK. Couple of things.

Fitness. Not up to scratch, just isn't. They ran harder then us, made space and it was all so easy from there.

Complacency. Some guys aren't fighting to win. Those that did were Judd, Henderson, Kreuzer, Simpson and Jamison. Whatever the reason the side lacks desire. I reckon we've under-estimated the importance of Carrots and Laidler as on-field leaders.

What I want to see next week is some guys given a spell in the twos. Because the second issue needs to be settled by the coaching staff. Bring in Collins, Mclean, Watson, Bootsma, the freaking water boy, whoever. Drop guys who aren't getting the most out of themselves OR give them a whole new role to learn.

Stick Gibbs in the middle for the whole game, we'll need him without Smurph. Bring in Watson to play defence against some AFL forwards (if you call Melbourne's lot that) and leave Hendo forward. He may of been settled in defence, but that mark he took in the third, where he glided in front of the pack, and the work he put in to make things happen, that's what we need up forward right now.

Let them know that things have changed. They are behind the eight ball now, and every game will be hard. Do they think Melbourne don't know we're down? Do they think that they can't smell blood in the water? If we want to be the best, we've got to respect the opposition and treat them all as worthy opponents.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Apart from all the other issues discussed we are never going to win a flag without a key forward and no Waite is not a key forward !

Also Juddy is flogging himself into the ground and it wouldn't suprise me if he calls it quits in a couple of years if we aren't a premiership threat. How much more can this guys body take without anyone elses help ?

We could put Franklin, Pavlich, Cloke and Jono Brown at their best in our forward line and we still wouldn't win the way our forward 50 entries are.

Players who continually bomb it blindly into our forward 50 or think Eddie can outmark his opponent and the loose man need a ------- rocket.

If we are going to continue playing makeshift forwards we better find some real silky skilled midfielders to supply them and find them fast because Curnow, Robinson, Ellard dont have the skill and poise to deliver and Judd and Murphy are not getting the space atm with all of their touches being rushed or from a crowded situation.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I know we're all feeling quite ill at what our team has put us through the last month or so, and so we all should be especially those of us that keep paying our memberships year after year to a club that hasn't really delivered us much joy for 11 years.

BUT...

There is some glimmer of hope, and it all rides with the mentality of this group.

In 1995 let us not forget our 2 loses..........to the teams that finished last.

Remember 2001.. Brisbane were beaten pillar to post on a few occassions in their first 9 rounds... their last loss was to us by 70+ points... then they won 16 straight.

The season for us is not yet over... injured players to come back, hopefully some confidence and anything is possible.

Let's keep some faith for a few more weeks before we make some damning final assesments.

Go Blues.

We dont have a side anywhere as talented or hungry as the 95 group.

That group was a veteran group with big bodies, multiple leaders on every line and had a sprinkling of some great young super talented players coming through.

The leaders of that group were self motivated, quite vocal and also took absolutely no shit from anyone. The midfield group didn't need a midfield coach as Madden, Williams and Bradley coached that entire group whilst playing!

 

[blue healer]

We dont have a side anywhere as talented or hungry as the 95 group.

That group was a veteran group with big bodies, multiple leaders on every line and had a sprinkling of some great young super talented players coming through.

The leaders of that group were self motivated, quite vocal and also took absolutely no shit from anyone. The midfield group didn't need a midfield coach as Madden, Williams and Bradley coached that entire group whilst playing!

This is an interesting point. Why do we need a midfield coach now when our head coach was B&F in the midfield of this team?

Is there a delineation issue when we have designated coaches? ie is Ratts reluctant to impose his personal views on that group?

i don't seem to remember Williams as much of an inside mid so is he the best to coach this group or should Ratts get further involved?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

This is an interesting point. Why do we need a midfield coach now when our head coach was B&F in the midfield of this team?

Is there a delineation issue when we have designated coaches? ie is Ratts reluctant to impose his personal views on that group?

i don't seem to remember Williams as much of an inside mid so is he the best to coach this group or should Ratts get further involved?

Are you saying Williams wasn't an inside mid, Is that what you are saying???

 

[blue healer]

Are you saying Williams wasn't an inside mid, Is that what you are saying???

Just saying I don't remember him as one but if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected.

Not the point of my post though, just asking, in a roundabout how much involvement does Ratts have in this area, could he have more and does anyone have an opinion?