Autopsy Round 8 vs Adelaide Rant Thread

[Kades_Dad]

You win no favours posting as you have above. I'm certain of that.

I don't come here for favors really. I come here for interesting and sometimes intelligent debate and discussion between other passionate CFC supporters.

No one goes to the football to watch the umpires. Everyone hopes that they go unnoticed and don't blow their whistle too much, but your point is taken. The umpire involved has since retired, and bygones are now bygones.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

No one goes to the football to watch the umpires. Everyone hopes that they go unnoticed and don't blow their whistle too much

Or at all. Have we paid a lot of frees against you so far? If it becomes an ongoing issue, we can talk about how best to approach it then. Deal?

 

[Kades_Dad]

Done deal.

 

[Sector 7G]

Still shattered by the weekends performance, but maybe it was not quite as bad as it first seemed.

In watching the clips on the club website we were only 10 points down with 8 minutes to play in the second quarter when Murph went down (9 points with 6 minutes to play when Robbo took the specky). While it doesn't show a great level of character from the boys, it could well have had a similar effect to Collingwood losing Luke Ball in round 3, deflating the guys and resulting in a poor effort for the remainder of the game.

5 weeks ago Collingwood were going to miss the 8 if you were to believe Mike Sheehan.

Lets hope that like Collingwood we can regroup, get 5 straight and find someone step up to fill the hole in our midfield.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Still shattered by the weekends performance, but maybe it was not quite as bad as it first seemed.

In watching the clips on the club website we were only 10 points down with 8 minutes to play in the second quarter when Murph went down (9 points with 6 minutes to play when Robbo took the specky). While it doesn't show a great level of character from the boys, it could well have had a similar effect to Collingwood losing Luke Ball in round 3, deflating the guys and resulting in a poor effort for the remainder of the game.

5 weeks ago Collingwood were going to miss the 8 if you were to believe Mike Sheehan.

Lets hope that like Collingwood we can regroup, get 5 straight and find someone step up to fill the hole in our midfield.

Just on this, I couldn't understand why they didn't sub Yarran in straight away as it was obvious that Murph wouldn't be back the way he was cradling his arm on the way off the ground.

Yarran could of been pivotal in those vital minutes leading up to half time!

 

[Peete]

5 weeks ago - you would have thought Essendon a cert, Saints put in the seconds and Adelaide another win.

Hmmm wonder what went wrong...

 

[Sector 7G]

Just on this, I couldn't understand why they didn't sub Yarran in straight away as it was obvious that Murph wouldn't be back the way he was cradling his arm on the way off the ground.

Yarran could of been pivotal in those vital minutes leading up to half time!

I had visions of Murph coming back on and being bumped by Montagna.

I suppose the medical staff were hoping that like Shuey who suffered a knock to the shoulder earlier in the season he might be able to get back on. Now maybe if Ratts was down on the bench we could have made this call quicker.

 

[Cazbah]

I prefer Ratts in the box. He's too cushy on the ground.

 

[multigrain]

Unfortunately our lack of particularly strong bodied inside midfielders is an issue Carlton has already encountered over the past 3 to 4 years. Last year for instance we were beaten by Geelong, Collingwood (twice), Hawthorn and West Coast. All are teams who boast at least some quality inside players. (Selwood, Chapman, Bartel, Ball, Pendlebury, Lewis, Hodge, Sewell, Priddis, Kerr and Shuey). There were obviously other factors that contributed to those losses, notably our average tall defenders. This issue has somewhat been alleviated with a fit Jamison, improving Henderson, and back up from Bower.

The other qualities in our game, particularly our speed and spread from the contest, not too mention a gluttony of quick skilful forwards (betts, garlett, walker, waite) make us look like a brilliant team when we play weak opponents who cannot flood the stoppages and monster our inside players. I was hoping general improvement in the likes of Robinson, Ellard, Curnow and Tuohy would help nullify this issue and at least get us on somewhat even terms with the better teams. Simply, these players are no better or stronger than they were last year and with the loss of Carrazzo we look to be in a world of pain. This is not a knock on those players as I respect them as some of our braver footballers. (Is Robinson injured? He is our best inside midfielder other than Judd. Has to be in the guts setting the intensity).

The problem is even worse this year than in previous years as other teams such as Adelaide and Essendon have focused heavily on building up the strength of their midfielders for contested footy, whereas we seem to have focused more on fitness and player management (this is a major generalisation I know, but it looks that way from my observations on field. Not to mention our bullshit about resting players through the season).

Teams have clearly identified our major weakness and will continue to try and exploit it. Since the Essendon match, every team we've played has flooded the stoppages at every occasion, drawing our speedy outside midfielders such as simpson, murphy and gibbs into contested footy where there actual strengths as footballers cannot be utilised. Also playing at the smaller Etihad compounds the issue.

Footy is never this simple, and clearly this is not the sole reason for our downfall, but in my opinion it continues to be our major Achilles heal. Same bullshit since Judd came to the club. Not enough grunt. We also seem to have a problem getting in the face of our opposition. I don't remember who tackled Carrazzo (Howlett?), but we should have got in his face immediately following the incident. I was disgusted with our lack of anger following that tackle.

Anyway, I still think we'll make top 8, and I hope I'm over reacting to two horrible performances.

 

[The_Wookie]

Bit late, gf keeps distracting me sorry.

Monday Night Shows

AFL 360
[youtube]CVuTEePl07g[/youtube]

On the Couch
[youtube]1G7W6zMmtHE[/youtube]

Footy Classified
[youtube]T_cZyvRD93E[/youtube]

 

[40yearBLUE]

FFS, how galling must it be for all concerned at Carlton to have to take criticism of club culture from someone like Grant Thomas who is steeped in the culture of failure at StKilda. He thinks we drink our own bath water.......coming from him thats almost funny if it wasnt coming at a time when we are all hurting just a little.

 

[Peete]

Galling - but fair - save for the bathwater comment don't you think?

Some people posting her have made the same comments over and over again..

Too much from too few is spot on. How the club could allow Judd to carry what he has had to for so long is a disaster - the best sign on to help was ..McLean?

Oh well - the too few are even fewer now - lets see what the rest have in them over the next 6 weeks 4 games out of this would be a fantastic lead up to Carrazzo/Laidler back.

Scotland, Simpson, Gibbs, Walker, Betts, Gartlett and YarrAn have to deliver their best and the rest of the midfield has to hold their own.

 

[The_Wookie]

I think Thomas's comment is idiotic about the bathwater. If we're drinking bathwater its because idiots like him in the media were responsible for the bathwater after round 3 anyway.

The media giveth and the media taketh away.

 

[Graffy4242]

Speaking of... Not sure if its been posted elsewhere

http://www.sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/blues-may-change-structure-177841

How the hell can it be not spoken about or recognised up until now, We are in more trouble then I think if this is the case, what are our coaches looking at!!

I have to agree with this. It is obvious to even my 4yo son that we don't play well at Etihad and it appears that our coaches and players are just working this out now???? WTF is going on???

I saw Bomber Thomson talking the week before the game against us on AFL 360. We had just smashed the Pies and they had just got over the line against the Suns. They then had a 4 day break to Anzac Day. He should have been scared, he should have been worried. But he was quietly confident as he said they had devised a plan to beat us.

Is our coaching staff doing anything like this in terms of really preparing the team to face the unique challenge of that week's team at that week's venue??

Unfortunately on the evidence at hand the answer has to be a resounding NO which is massively disappointing as I really thought we had progressed much further than we have

 

[The Coach]

How the hell can it be not spoken about or recognised up until now, We are in more trouble then I think if this is the case, what are our coaches looking at!!

Is it any wonder I doubt that Gibbs has ever been sat down and given a heart to heart, that players are drilled on how to block, ....

Unfortunately, sometimes if you give someone a showbag with a plastic gun and a tin badge they automatically consider themselves Dirty Harry.

Done deal.

With that crap attitude to volunteer mods you don't deserve a deal - complaining over a closed thread, you should have been carded for the above. You wouldn't mouth off to the Police when they ask you to move on so use pms to discuss issues with mods

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Is it any wonder I doubt that Gibbs has ever been sat down and given a heart to heart, that players are drilled on how to block, ....

Yep I think there is little doubt that any of our players let alone Gibbs have been sat down for open and honest feedback.

The way our society is today I would guess that any difficult topic or issue would be glossed over with a ratio of about 4 positives to the 1 negative.

If this is happening it is any wonder they don't get the message loud and clear.

Imagine Parkin, Barrassi and Slug Jordan with today's players when they are not happy with an individuals efforts etc..

 

[Claypigeon]

Is it any wonder I doubt that Gibbs has ever been sat down and given a heart to heart, that players are drilled on how to block, ....

Yep I think there is little doubt that any of our players let alone Gibbs have been sat down for open and honest feedback.

The way our society is today I would guess that any difficult topic or issue would be glossed over with a ratio of about 4 positives to the 1 negative.

If this is happening it is any wonder they don't get the message loud and clear.

Imagine Parkin, Barrassi and Slug Jordan with today's players when they are not happy with an individuals efforts etc..

You do realise that through the Leading Teams (hope I got the name right) the players tell each other how it is in open feedback. .. I'm pretty sure they stand up in front of the group to do it too. .. It might be done in a touchy feely way but its supposed to be honest and frank feedback. ..

Some players need a heavy hand and others need guidance to reach the same point, it's about working out the best method. .. Obviously the sport psychology side of things is as debatable as any other parts of psychology though

 

[Just Kreuzing]

You do realise that through the Leading Teams (hope I got the name right) the players tell each other how it is in open feedback. .. I'm pretty sure they stand up in front of the group to do it too. .. It might be done in a touchy feely way but its supposed to be honest and frank feedback. ..

Some players need a heavy hand and others need guidance to reach the same point, it's about working out the best method. .. Obviously the sport psychology side of things is as debatable as any other parts of psychology though

Yeah forgot about leading teams but just wonder how much they do look their mates in the eye and tell them what they need to hear, and how often this is done.

Would have more effect coming from a coach during a team huddle instead of a group setting a few days after the game or every now and then IMO.

Maybe its time for a different approach with some....

 

[Franc de Borges]

The most galling aspect of this situation is that teams that we were far superior to have seemingly gone past us within a year to six months (WCE, Adel, Ess), simply due to setting in stone a solid structure and getting players to follow it.

With Judd and Murphy as our main men we should be leading the way in terms of blocks, shepherds and general protection at stoppages. Instead it seems to be as case of thrash them with pace and talent or get demolished in an arm wrestle.

 

[Franc de Borges]

Just on this, I couldn't understand why they didn't sub Yarran in straight away as it was obvious that Murph wouldn't be back the way he was cradling his arm on the way off the ground.

Yarran could of been pivotal in those vital minutes leading up to half time!

Agreed. I understand that they don't want to make the call too early, but seriously, there was no way Murphy was coming back.

It just reflects the lack of proactivity during games.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

The most galling aspect of this situation is that teams that we were far superior to have seemingly gone past us within a year to six months (WCE, Adel, Ess), simply due to setting in stone a solid structure and getting players to follow it.

With Judd and Murphy as our main men we should be leading the way in terms of blocks, shepherds and general protection at stoppages. Instead it seems to be as case of thrash them with pace and talent or get demolished in an arm wrestle.

I think the Eagles did it on the back of bottoming out big time for a couple of years whilst they had alot of injuries. They finished low (probably on purpose) when they had injuries to key players and only won 16 games over 3 consecutive seasons and added some great young talent with the draft picks they got and then exploded back into contention last year when their key players got over their injuries and won something like 16+ games last season.

The Bombers and Crows always had reasonable talent but added key pieces to the puzzle to turn them into contenders (smart/talented coaches from the Geelong powerhouse era) in Thompson and Sanderson.

All teams and coaches as you said also have solid structures but you must have the tools to work with.

Bomber Thompson and Malthouse's gameplans wouldn't work with our current group. there would need to be a huge turnover in players adding players with better kicking skills, toughness and size!

 

[The Coach]

You do realise that through the Leading Teams (hope I got the name right) the players tell each other how it is in open feedback. .. I'm pretty sure they stand up in front of the group to do it too. .. It might be done in a touchy feely way but its supposed to be honest and frank feedback. ..

Some players need a heavy hand and others need guidance to reach the same point, it's about working out the best method. .. Obviously the sport psychology side of things is as debatable as any other parts of psychology though

Clay - I am not a teenage kid. Firstly, I am an outspoken person in real life, who is amazed by the fact that 99% of people will not speak up on anything remotely controversial and thus cannot be sure open feedback is always honest. Secondly, I have coached and I like to think I have some ancient knowledge of coaching and what some coaches are like and without any knowledge of Ratts - only what I see as far as results, I cannot be sure he is seeing and telling it as it is to his players. Some of the ex-coach current media gurus were not always the communicators they are today but Ratts has long enough to have grown into the role (I remember Brian Taylor claiming that when Leight Matthews was coach of Collingwood, he never had a conversation with him!)

I believe the next few weeks will clarify if we have the right man/men coaching us as we can not waste the strength (not necessarily depth) of our list after having to fail for so many years to get these players. After the next month we will be able to answer the Q posed by one our posters elsewhere - Would any other club appoint Ratts?