Autopsy Round 9, 2021: Hawks get bounced

[savagelunchbox]

Still shits me to tears how we continually kick in from a behind by going to the pockets and never use the extended space now afforded to the kicker inner.

Short to the pocket, which then forces the long kick down the line to marking targets we don't have.

It's insanity that we try it while avoiding running and belting the ball to the half way point of the ground to get some territorial pressure released. No other club goes to the dead back pocket like we do.

That alone should be an alarm bell regarding the coaches.

 

[TylerDurden]

Clarko talking about North's experienced players? Lol

Knew he'd roll this one out again. "Beaten by a better midfield". Every week we make the oppo mids look like Chris Judd. How about he just says, we're not good enough, and take some responsibility for how bad we really are.

 

[bindas12]

Oh ffs.

Sorry to single you out but the pissing and moaning is a bit much. 4 or 5 years?? No.

We suck right now but this stuff can be remedied fast, there is plenty of talent on the list.

OMeara, Mitchell, Wingard, Day, Sicily, Hardwick, CJ, Scrimshaw, Impey, Worpel, Kosi, Lewis, TOB will all be at the club in 5 years. DGB, Seamus and Brockman are all promising youngsters. A few good picks this summer and a couple of good recruits from other clubs and we are right back in the hunt. I would be suprised if we were still at the arse end in 2 years time.

I remember looking at Brisbanes list in 2017 and wondering how the fu** they would ever come good. In 2018 they finish 4 from the bottom. That was under 3 years ago.

Im a realistic supporter. Things need a shake up. But the sky-is-falling tantrums ITT are a bit much.

This is the type of thinking that will get us into trouble again... Clarko keeps saying it can turn quickly.... that we should look at Sydney and Richmond... well I am sorry Clarko but they are both better coaches than you...This whole "it can turn quick" is what's going to lead us to picking up more 26+ aged free agents and trading our early picks... NO THANKS!... understand where you stand and commit to a rebuild finally!

 

[cam975]

Agree with this, plus we're kicking it to turnover merchants in Phillips and Frost... Hartley had a couple of shockers today and I dare say will be dropped.

Still shits me to tears how we continually kick in from a behind by going to the pockets and never use the extended space now afforded to the kicker inner.

Short to the pocket, which then forces the long kick down the line to marking targets we don't have.

It's insanity that we try it while avoiding running and belting the ball to the half way point of the ground to get some territorial pressure released. No other club goes to the dead back pocket like we do.

That alone should be an alarm bell regarding the coaches.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Rocket72]

Kangas lost their number one draft pick today.

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

Sorry, I'm not really sure if this is tongue in cheek or not?

Sure there were some superstars in the making there. Hodge and Mitchell the standouts. Williams about to start killing it for the next few years. Crawford was 31 or 32, and 5 years passed his brownlow year, and 2 years beyond his last AA. The vast majority of the rest of them were B+ at best from that point on. Brad Sewell perhaps the only other player in the younger group who you could argue was elite, and I think that is a stretch and a very biased hawthorn perspective to say he was at that level. Thompson and Hay both had headspace issues that ultimately lead to them to be traded (in Thompson's case for his own good in what was probably a win-win). Hay had one standad out year 3 seasons prior. Bateman was fun to watch and one of my favourites in the group at that time, but I'm not sure you could say he was elite.

That team also lost to the wooden spooners, and had a percentage worse than the one we have now, as a result of many massive thumpings over the season. If you look at the actual players in that 2004 team that did go on to play in 2008 flag, I don't think the core group there is overly impressive, in fact the bottom half of the group that did go on to 2008 is particularly ordinary compared to what we already have on the list in 2021.
I posted a similar list from 2003 season in a main board thread (when Sewell didn't play and Croad was still at freo) that went on to the 2008 GF side:
Crawford
Mitchell
Hodge
Williams
Bateman
Osborne
Ladson
Brown
Campbell

If I chose the best 9 players I think we have in the side right now that are young enough to play in finals team in 5 years time it would look something like:
Wingard
Mitchell
O'Meara
Sicily
Day
Impey
Scrimshaw
Hardwick
Jiath

Obviously Mitchell and Hodge are top shelf, but it would have been hard to see Crawford lasting another 5 years at that point give he was already 31 by the end of the season (I think). We could have some of our better players last beyond expectation too, although Crawf's dedication to preparation and getting himself up each week is hard to match. Williams was also an absolute gun, and I liked Bateman a lot. However the bottom 4 of that list is IMO a good deal worse than the bottom 4 in our 2021 equivalent list so I reckon the base isn't actually terrible. Also that list doesn't include DGB, Downie or Reeves, who you'd hope will help flesh out that base. Basically much of the 2008 GF team came AFTER the 2004 home and away season, and it came quickly from the draft that year and onwards. We did get 2 priority picks, but one was wasted on injury prone Ellis, and we wasted several other top 10 picks. Only 2004 was really a total success draft wise.

The club did an amazing job to build to a flag from that list in only 4 years. If it wasn't for absolutely nailing the draft that year and getting Roughy, Franklin and Lewis , not only might 2008 not have happened, but 2013,14, and 15 may have been in doubt. I think we succeeded IN SPITE of the quality of the pre-2004 draft list , not because of it (but of course getting Mitchell and Hodge in 2001 was important, but they were a small part of a fairly mediocre list at that point IMO).

Two words: Mitchell, Hodge.

 

[The hands of stone]

GC getting done by 100 points here and have a thousand top 10 picks. It's not the answer either.

Spot on , a lot depends on how we do in this draft . If we nail it and last years and keep a good core we can rebound fairly quickly in rebuild terms.

Happy to say ive changed my tune , I really think we need that 2nd high draft pick now to help that process .

 

[bungholes_premiers]

Maybe these clarko out fools want Dewy ..

GC getting done by 100 points here and have a thousand top 10 picks. It's not the answer either.

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[burner1]

Knew he'd roll this one out again. "Beaten by a better midfield". Every week we make the oppo mids look like Chris Judd. How about he just says, we're not good enough, and take some responsibility for how bad we really are.

Look who’s in the leadership group - BB, JOM, Mitchell, shiels, worpel and Gunston. 5/6 is our midfield that is not good enough.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

This is the type of thinking that will get us into trouble again... Clarko keeps saying it can turn quickly.... that we should look at Sydney and Richmond... well I am sorry Clarko but they are both better coaches than you...This whole "it can turn quick" is what's going to lead us to picking up more 26+ aged free agents and trading our early picks... NO THANKS!... understand where you stand and commit to a rebuild finally!

Heres a tip. We have no influence over the team. Me being optimistic and refusing to let a shit performance turn me into a salty bitch has no effect on the future of the team.

As you were.

 

[hk89]

Two words: Mitchell, Hodge.

Two words: Two Players

Hodge and Mitchell don't make up for the rest of the dross. Also in 2004 neither were stars. They had started to build, but Mitchell averaged 18 possessions and Hodge 15 possessions that year. 2004 was a very shit side IMO, with very little young elite talent outside the two you've mentioned. Williams the only other relatively young player I think could argue was truly elite.

 

[phreeze77]

Jordan Lewis loves Hawthorn with all his heart.

LISTEN TO HIM CLOSELY.

Don’t listen to spin from the club.

He said the same thing last year and I had the thoughts , that he was a bitter ex hawk that resents clarko for the way he was nudged out of the club.

He has every right to feel that way but his thoughts on where we are at is 100% on the money.

We have passengers and list cloggers. The sooner we rid ourselves of them the better.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Summary?

He has been talking about the Hawks for 12-18 months saying we are in dream land with our list management.

Listen to him very closely.

 

[Arrogant Frog]

Still shits me to tears how we continually kick in from a behind by going to the pockets and never use the extended space now afforded to the kicker inner.

Short to the pocket, which then forces the long kick down the line to marking targets we don't have.

It's insanity that we try it while avoiding running and belting the ball to the half way point of the ground to get some territorial pressure released. No other club goes to the dead back pocket like we do.

That alone should be an alarm bell regarding the coaches.

This 100%

The 3rd quarter kicks in was one for the main reasons our 5 goal lead disappeared so quickly and has been an issue all year.

We never go quick and rarely go long down the middle.

 

[Lickmesocks]

He said the same thing last year and I had the thoughts , that he was a bitter ex hawk that resents clarko for the way he was nudged out of the club.

He has every right to feel that way but his thoughts on where we are at is 100% on the money.

We have passengers and list cloggers. The sooner we rid ourselves of them the better.

He said recently Hawthorn is my side and I barrack for them hard. He is not bitter.

He is in the media and could say nothing and play a straight bat but he calls it honestly.

 

[Spursfan]

Wow we have the pies board easily covered for hysterical rants today

 

[Slow Love]

Sorry, I'm not really sure if this is tongue in cheek or not?

Sure there were some superstars in the making there. Hodge and Mitchell the standouts. Williams about to start killing it for the next few years. Crawford was 31 or 32, and 5 years passed his brownlow year, and 2 years beyond his last AA. The vast majority of the rest of them were B+ at best from that point on. Brad Sewell perhaps the only other player in the younger group who you could argue was elite, and I think that is a stretch and a very biased hawthorn perspective to say he was at that level. Thompson and Hay both had headspace issues that ultimately lead to them to be traded (in Thompson's case for his own good in what was probably a win-win). Hay had one standad out year 3 seasons prior. Bateman was fun to watch and one of my favourites in the group at that time, but I'm not sure you could say he was elite.

That team also lost to the wooden spooners, and had a percentage worse than the one we have now, as a result of many massive thumpings over the season. If you look at the actual players in that 2004 team that did go on to play in 2008 flag, I don't think the core group there is overly impressive, in fact the bottom half of the group that did go on to 2008 is particularly ordinary compared to what we already have on the list in 2021.
I posted a similar list from 2003 season in a main board thread (when Sewell didn't play and Croad was still at freo) that went on to the 2008 GF side:
Crawford
Mitchell
Hodge
Williams
Bateman
Osborne
Ladson
Brown
Campbell

If I chose the best 9 players I think we have in the side right now that are young enough to play in finals team in 5 years time it would look something like:
Wingard
Mitchell
O'Meara
Sicily
Day
Impey
Scrimshaw
Hardwick
Jiath

Obviously Mitchell and Hodge are top shelf, but it would have been hard to see Crawford lasting another 5 years at that point give he was already 31 by the end of the season (I think). We could have some of our better players last beyond expectation too, although Crawf's dedication to preparation and getting himself up each week is hard to match. Williams was also an absolute gun, and I liked Bateman a lot. However the bottom 4 of that list is IMO a good deal worse than the bottom 4 in our 2021 equivalent list so I reckon the base isn't actually terrible. Also that list doesn't include DGB, Downie or Reeves, who you'd hope will help flesh out that base. Basically much of the 2008 GF team came AFTER the 2004 home and away season, and it came quickly from the draft that year and onwards. We did get 2 priority picks, but one was wasted on injury prone Ellis, and we wasted several other top 10 picks. Only 2004 was really a total success draft wise.

The club did an amazing job to build to a flag from that list in only 4 years. If it wasn't for absolutely nailing the draft that year and getting Roughy, Franklin and Lewis , not only might 2008 not have happened, but 2013,14, and 15 may have been in doubt. I think we succeeded IN SPITE of the quality of the pre-2004 draft list , not because of it (but of course getting Mitchell and Hodge in 2001 was important, but they were a small part of a fairly mediocre list at that point IMO).

I've read this entire response - and carefully - and I still can't see why you asked if my opinion was tongue in cheek.

Would anybody argue that the talent on offer in that 2004 side was inferior to what we have in this 2021 list? I just wanna pause to clarify that this is where you're coming from, because God knows I can get it wrong

 

[hawk for 37]

Our playing list is very reminiscent of the late 90's (around 1997 to be exact)... A couple of borderline A graders, a few B graders and plenty of average footballers.

Mmm. No. It’s much worse. 97 had Dunstall and Holland in the key fwd slots. Wouldn’t they be nice in today’s team. Oh and young fella named Crawford dominating the midfield.

 

[VandoHawk]

Knew he'd roll this one out again. "Beaten by a better midfield". Every week we make the oppo mids look like Chris Judd. How about he just says, we're not good enough, and take some responsibility for how bad we really are.

We had our best midfield out there. They’re 18th on the ladder. Our midfield is the worst in the league, our most experienced area by far, and he’s talking about North’s experiened players? Just once I want to see Clarko talk without some PR response.

 

[RoughysMullet]

Clarko talking about North's experienced players? Lol

Clarko’s response in press conferences is just to pump up how good the opposition were to help take the focus of how bad we were...
Seems to be working so far, not really sure how much longer he can keep it up though...

 

[Mercy Seat]

This is the type of thinking that will get us into trouble again... Clarko keeps saying it can turn quickly.... that we should look at Sydney and Richmond... well I am sorry Clarko but they are both better coaches than you...This whole "it can turn quick" is what's going to lead us to picking up more 26+ aged free agents and trading our early picks... NO THANKS!... understand where you stand and commit to a rebuild finally!

This post would be valid maybe 2-3 years ago. We’ve taken all our early picks to the draft the past few years and have publicly committed to a rebuild. Beyond that, we can’t really go out and draft 3 first rounders in May.

 

[Slow Love]

Two words: Two Players

Hodge and Mitchell don't make up for the rest of the dross. Also in 2004 neither were stars. They had started to build, but Mitchell averaged 18 possessions and Hodge 15 possessions that year. 2004 was a very sh*t side IMO, with very little young elite talent outside the two you've mentioned. Williams the only other relatively young player I think could argue was truly elite.

You're averaging out Mitchell and Hodges possessions to depreciate their value?

 

[Gohawthorn13]

I'm not even talking about motivation. I'm talking about ability to consistently follow the game plan across the entire group for the full 4 quarters. I don't see a team that isn't trying (in general).

If your going to tell me the 22 we picked isn’t better than the 22 nth picked your kidding yourself. Correct we aren’t a good team in fact we are bottom 4 but are more than capable of beating that team on talent. And we got smashed out of the middle by them and we have a Brownlow medallist and in Tom Mitchell and omeara in the midfield. Not acceptable when players are underperforming it’s on the coach.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

Where is the pride in performance of the player though ?
Where was the pushback from our senior players or a group of young guys taking the reigns?

An undermanned 18th side bullied us for 3/4s.
We are devoid of leadership and that isnt all on the coach

Yes it is, he picks the team puts the processes in place. If the players don’t have the pride in their performance then he’s not setting the standards.

 

[The hands of stone]

Still shits me to tears how we continually kick in from a behind by going to the pockets and never use the extended space now afforded to the kicker inner.

Short to the pocket, which then forces the long kick down the line to marking targets we don't have.

It's insanity that we try it while avoiding running and belting the ball to the half way point of the ground to get some territorial pressure released. No other club goes to the dead back pocket like we do.

That alone should be an alarm bell regarding the coaches.

It what poor teams low on confidence do , they play safe not wanting to make a mistake and it plays into the oppos hands.

It would not be our first , 2nd or 3rd choice but the guys now dont want to try to hit a 30-40m target incase they turn it straight over.

I hate it but its how it is for now with what we have and what the mindset is.