Autopsy Round 9, 2021: Hawks get bounced

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I don't think we're taking but we're desperately experimenting and looking for answers

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I don't think we're taking but we're desperately experimenting and looking for answers

The likes of TOB and Hartley are not the answers to any question worth asking.

Bringing JOM back in when he wasn't ready doesn't seem like it's something an experimenting team would do. It seems like something a desperate team would do. We played to win.

 

[Pessimistic]

The problem is the AFL want equal outcome not equal opportunity.

Hopefully a win today can put to bed any ideas of the AFL gifting out a PP for North.

I was pissed when Gold Coast literally re-gifted their pick to Geelong. That’s not equalisation

 

[Billyc]

I don't think we're taking but we're desperately experimenting and looking for answers

Trying different things and looking for answers is the opposite of tanking. Our midfield has been smashed most weeks for 2 years. It doesn’t work. Persisting with what doesn’t work is closer to tanking than trying something new.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

The likes of TOB and Hartley are not the answers to any question worth asking.

Bringing JOM back in when he wasn't ready doesn't seem like it's something an experimenting team would do. It seems like something a desperate team would do. We played to win.

Yeah hence why I said 'desperately'

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Trying different things and looking for answers is the opposite of tanking. Our midfield has been smashed most weeks for 2 years. It doesn’t work. Persisting with what doesn’t work is closer to tanking than trying something new.

I agree

 

[MadDawg]

I think this is what frustrates most Hawks supporters.

What is the point of playing a bunch of 25-28 year olds that are extremely average if we just get beaten every week. Why not just give more younger guys a crack to just see what they have to offer. We saw Worpel and Lewis excel unexpectedly in 2019 and Kozi this year.

We know what TOB, Howe, Hartley, Phillips have to offer. It's not much. Let's just give Downie, Finn, Jeka, Brockman a proper run at it. What's the worst that could happen we loose games and finish 17th.

We still have the likes of Mitchell, JOM, Bruest, Gunston, McEvoy, Burgoyne (when available) providing leadership and setting the standards.

I'm all for senior players being in the team when they are AFL quality and can take a load off the young players like Wingard, Bruest, Gunston, JOM.

But senior players who are borderline AFL standard who put pressure on the young players like O'Brien and Hartley need to stay out.

This is one of the first principles Clarko implemented when he arrived at Hawthorn. He delisted or demoted the senior players on the fringe, in favour of youth who he backed to the hilt. At times it felt a bit ruthless at times but it had the big picture in mind, and most importantly it worked.

I don't know why he choosing to do it differently this time, is he too emotionally connected to the players now??? Ego??

But hopefully that loss rocked him hard enough that he'll do the right thing now. We'll find out at selection next week.

 

[hawka32]

Don't place Sydney as a comparison....they have a whole recruiting zone to choose from.
Different set of rules which has made their list rebuild easier.
They also saw the writing on the wall instead of clinging onto dear life... made the necessary trades and went youth.

The second bit it the main point, they may have zones but they still needed to use picks to access those players. We had access to high picks over the last 5 years and those picks are now running around in Port jumpers playing finals footy.

Sydney were smart, we were dumb

 

[The hands of stone]

Don’t be so sure. North’s young kids have energy and will win a few more on the way home.

we have some real battlers mixed in with some tired looking older guys and a really painful game plan that is not inspiring to watch nor play I would suggest .

We could easily finish last.

They have another 3-4 wins in them , no doubt. They have some momentum now and I expect they will also cause an upset or 2.

Not do sure we do. 2 wins by under a goal against bottom 4 opponants and yesterdays loss is two teams heading in a different trajectory form wise.

 

[dcutter]

why waste 3 years then ?? bottom out in 2018

Its hard to believe, but we actually finished top 4 in 2018.

Possibly a bad outcome in hindsight in the sense that it seemingly gave the hierarchy a belief that our non drafting method and topping up was working.

I think the most frustrating thing for fans at the moment is the mixed messages coming out of the club with no clear direction.
Clarko's comments during the week appeared to still sound non committal in regards to going to the draft.

I think we'd all love to just hear him say we're going to the draft of the next few years, bring out the sledgehammer to the list and be as ruthless as he was when he first took over.

 

[hawka32]

Why has Clarko been so cold on the draft in the last few years? I remember him saying in a presser last year that you can’t rebuild through the draft anymore because its compromised but where did he get this idea? Melbourne, dogs, port and even carlton have a reasonable list built through the “compromised” draft.

I thought at the time it was Graham Wright in his ear and so was pleased when he jumped ship. But does Clarko actually believe this, historically there is only one way - and its through the draft just like he did when he arrived in 2004.

 

[Lickmesocks]

They have another 3-4 wins in them , no doubt. They have some momentum now and I expect they will also cause an upset or 2.

Not do sure we do. 2 wins by under a goal against bottom 4 opponants and yesterdays loss is two teams heading in a different trajectory form wise.

We are terrible to watch. Plain and simple.

The game plan of chipping bloody wide all the time is horrendous

Hartley and Frost tripping over themselves, giving away free kicks and then both turning
the ball over with rubbish disposal is not Hawthorn.

Frost gives his all which I love but gives away 3 goals a game with rubbish disposal.

Harley kicks it 60 metres yet will not pull the trigger and try’s to pin point passes 20 metres away amongst a heap of players.

We are the worst team in the comp at trying to kick the ball in. We wait, wait, wait and then don’t even use the free space to play on and gain an extra 20 metres of ground. Who is teaching this rubbish? Hardwick always looks in slow motion. Get the fricken ball quickly play on from FB and pump it to centre wing mate where we atleast can have a few talls lined up to compete. Instead we end up chipping the ball to the back pocket and are caught with no options.....

If we come home with some sort of career saving individual performances and again don’t cut the dead wood free and end up with pick 4 or 5 and don’t make the hard calls needed I will be spewing.

Give me pick 1 and the bloody spoon.
Trade out a player for another first round pick around 10-15.

Pick 1, 12 19 and 20 would be superb. Add to that Day, DGB, CJ and we finally have some quality on our list we can watch come through together.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Why has Clarko been so cold on the draft in the last few years? I remember him saying in a presser last year that you can’t rebuild through the draft anymore because its compromised but where did he get this idea? Melbourne, dogs, port and even carlton have a reasonable list built through the “compromised” draft.

I thought at the time it was Graham Wright in his ear and so was pleased when he jumped ship. But does Clarko actually believe this, historically there is only one way - and its through the draft just like he did when he arrived in 2004.

That is a competitive coach driven to win now at all costs.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Why has Clarko been so cold on the draft in the last few years? I remember him saying in a presser last year that you can’t rebuild through the draft anymore because its compromised but where did he get this idea? Melbourne, dogs, port and even carlton have a reasonable list built through the “compromised” draft.

I thought at the time it was Graham Wright in his ear and so was pleased when he jumped ship. But does Clarko actually believe this, historically there is only one way - and its through the draft just like he did when he arrived in 2004.

The clubs you list haven't built in compromised drafts.
Clarko was referring to scouting kids tied to other clubs, and if you pick them.the other club will swoop in (ala the dogs last yr)

 

[ZAD1]

One thing we need to do at the draft (in addition to looking for elite talent across the ground) is draft some potential leaders. I don't see a future Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Roughead in terms of leadership among the current crop other than JOM. We are bereft of leadership. No one stands up when things are going against us on field.

 

[The hands of stone]

I'm all for senior players being in the team when they are AFL quality and can take a load off the young players like Wingard, Bruest, Gunston, JOM.

But senior players who are borderline AFL standard who put pressure on the young players like O'Brien and Hartley need to stay out.

This is one of the first principles Clarko implemented when he arrived at Hawthorn. He delisted or demoted the senior players on the fringe, in favour of youth who he backed to the hilt. At times it felt a bit ruthless at times but it had the big picture in mind, and most importantly it worked.

I don't know why he choosing to do it differently this time, is he too emotionally connected to the players now??? Ego??

But hopefully that loss rocked him hard enough that he'll do the right thing now. We'll find out at selection next week.

Reckon its a bit of column A and B with Clarko

Once youve achieved something you feel you can do it again , no matter what odds . The more you get told you cant , you want to prove them wrong.

He probably made some promises to players about gaving another crack at it and when you do that youve backed yourself right in .

It was better to lose yesterday then scrap a 2-3 goal win.
Its low , rock bottom and its a real clear sense of whats ahead.

I thought we would be bottom 4 this season , but we are a fair way worse then I thought .

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

One thing we need to do at the draft (in addition to looking for elite talent across the ground) is draft some potential leaders. I don't see a future Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Roughead in terms of leadership among the current crop other than JOM. We are bereft of leadership. No one stands up when things are going against us on field.

Worps and Day I reckon. Need more though

 

[Sturty]

Can't wait for this weeks predictable selections
IN: Howe, Ceglar, Silk

 

[WWSD]

We need some positivity to take into next season. If Grainger-Barras and Day can play together in the same game that would be really good. They are the foundation for this rebuild. It all starts with them.

 

[Roddy]

Can't wait for this weeks predictable selections
IN: Howe, Ceglar, Silk

O'Brien to retain his spot after almost getting a fine for being on an AFL field during the game....

 

[PT Bar None]

 

[Mrzohs]

I think I'm like everyone else in saying, I'm tired of seeing the same setup every game in the center it is Mitch,Jom,Worp, Shiels. The wings Morrison,Phillips, Howe. It's competitive for a quarter then by the time the other team has rotated 7-8 players thru we get smashed and out worked.

I think Morrison played well yesterday and has shown some improvement in games this season, the rest is the same old same old.
Captain flipping obvious could of told you to move Tob down Back or play Greaves to release a Impey,Scrimshaw. As soon as Impey went up the ground things started to happen. Honestly we have won bugger all footy the last season and a half and we are still persisting with the same set-up!!!! I am happy we have got some games into Hanrahan, Moore, Kosi, Lewis, Cj ,Scrimshaw, Cousins etc but the setup is borderline ridiculous or just plain stubborn the whole coaching panel has to go or clarko!! We are sick to death as members and supporters of watching this rubbish every week with the same old set-up and personal week in week out.

Continuing to play blokes who are NOT in form and are definatly NOT apart of our next premiership is borderline insane purely of the aspect that blokes at boxhill are to young and need to serve there apprenticeship to develop there game.

 

[FactsNotBS]

it’s not the skill necessarily, our current crop are as talented but zero unsociability. A very very mediocre and young side ran all over us.

You can stop that with a bit of hardness - we are soft and that’s what I can’t cop.

Have you noticed harsh penalties for “hardness”? Not like the old days. You cant be unsociable without spending weeks on the sidelines. Which club today is like the hawks of old? None IMO.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[HODGEYROAD]

We jumped an 0-8 team with a percentage of 50 by 5 goals and still lost, shows how bad we're travelling.

Again nearly 400 touches for 40 inside 50s.

JOM spending some time forward early in the game suggests to me he wasn't 100% fit.

Apparently only 3 of Mitchell's 28 touches were contested.

Can't even blame this loss on a lack of talent as North are awful but they simply wanted it more.

Seems I was optimistic this season predicting 6 wins despite being told I was negative.

On the bright side we had TOB and his halving contests and running patterns back in the side.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Can't wait for this weeks predictable selections
IN: Howe, Ceglar, Silk

Yeesh