Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[peetoo]

No matter where we finish this year, there will be a lot more scrutiny on us next year. We will be expected to win more than we lose . Gotta be mindful of what happened to the crows, they were doing overs last year ( just like I thought) and were talking it up pre season about their finals chances yet here we are. Obviously though, their list is awfully unbalanced with their older players still playing some good footy last year and now that they're struggling, they've been found out. But still, we definitely need a big pre season and mindset to go top 8 , hell, maybe even top 4!

Plenty could go right or wrong, just approach that when the time comes.

 

[twentythree]

Our last four final scores...

97, 85, 107, 100.

Extremely potent for a side that started 0-5 and was sitting bottom four.

Our forward line is just fine, thanks. The only question is, will Mitch improve it at all? (and I like him a lot)

I too have wondered this ... It feels like Chol and the other forwards have really clicked together last few games ... Love Chols physicality ... I don't think Lewis has or can even develop it in his game.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I thought Finals were out of the question at the start of the season, and thought that 2025/26 is when we'd really start to push our way into the top eight (as our best youngsters will be hitting the 21+ age bracket) - to even be in the conversation at this point in the season is a good achievement. Never mind when you factor in the putrid start to the season we had.

So finals or not, if we play the season out with the same level of dare then the season has been a big success.

We've unearthed Dear. Wiz is showing the rare brilliance only few players possess. Mackenzie acclimatising to the pace of the league and showing his class when kicking. Chol, Ginnivan and D'Ambrosio have outperformed their expectations, and the latter two are only 21 and will surely continue to improve. Meek and Scrimshaw have announced themselves as legitimate quality players in their respective positions. Plus we have now seen what a few weeks worth of performances playing to our gameplan looks like, and it has been exciting.

The only real downsides have been Butler and Blanck (in particular) both being robbed of a year's worth of development, and DGB and Ward not establishing themselves as first team players (still time for the latter in particular) as yet.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

I thought Finals were out of the question at the start of the season, and thought that 2025/26 is when we'd really start to push our way into the top eight

Ditto. I reckon we're a chance to play a GF next year just quietly

 

[MasterSamurai]

The Hawthorn players and coaches wanted to play finals this year. So we haven't achieved what we want to achieve this year yet. Forget about next year we still have so many games to win this year

My comment has more to do with expectations then anything else. Think we'll fall short making finals this year but I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right .
I am of the belief that this list is primed from 2025 onwards but also wanna temper my expectations going frwd.

 

[H00t]

I thought Finals were out of the question at the start of the season, and thought that 2025/26 is when we'd really start to push our way into the top eight (as our best youngsters will be hitting the 21+ age bracket) - to even be in the conversation at this point in the season is a good achievement. Never mind when you factor in the putrid start to the season we had.

So finals or not, if we play the season out with the same level of dare then the season has been a big success.

We've unearthed Dear. Wiz is showing the rare brilliance only few players possess. Mackenzie acclimatising to the pace of the league and showing his class when kicking. Chol, Ginnivan and D'Ambrosio have outperformed their expectations, and the latter two are only 21 and will surely continue to improve. Meek and Scrimshaw have announced themselves as legitimate quality players in their respective positions. Plus we have now seen what a few weeks worth of performances playing to our gameplan looks like, and it has been exciting.

The only real downsides have been Butler and Blanck (in particular) both being robbed of a year's worth of development, and DGB and Ward not establishing themselves as first team players (still time for the latter in particular) as yet.

The most promising thing for mine is just how much room for improvement this team has just from the 23 running out each week. Not even including those trying to get into the team.

Outside of Sydney it’s a fairly weak comp this year. Perfect chance for us to make a strong mark in September.

Just need to finish the year strongly. How the young bodies are going towards the end of the year will be the deciding factor.

 

[TheFourPillars]

My comment has more to do with expectations then anything else. Think we'll fall short making finals this year but I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right .
I am of the belief that this list is primed from 2025 onwards but also wanna temper my expectations going frwd.

Why would u though. Temper ure expectations. We have had a few down years. Look like we r on the up. Plenty to raise ure expectations rather than temper them sure if they're not met be dissapointed but there is always next year

 

[HedgeFund]

Come on mate. Quality of opponent? The fact you're talking about the Dogs and Brisbane in terms of their ladder position shows how much of a stretch you're making here. Dogs have had more wins against top 8 sides than anyone outside of Sydney.

Also just saying "we lost" against Port as if that showed we weren't that good when in reality we almost (and honestly should have) knocked them off with our two best defenders in Sic and Scrim out of the side.

Sometimes the relentless realist shit gets a bit tiring, and the games don't really just boil down to which side plays which side in terms of their positions on the ladder. Especially this year.

We don’t have “an embarrassment of riches on our list” by Rd 14.

We also weren’t the worst Hawthorn side in history after Rd 5.

It’s somewhere in between and playing some more teams who aren’t travelling too well has assisted us in developing our synergy and performing better.

As I stated, the quality of sides you’re playing against has a part to play in how you review the outcome.

It’s not black and white. There are shades of grey.

Some people on here just look at things through a binary prism. We are either completely crap or we are about to win a flag. Neither is, or was, the case.

We have improved as the season progressed - no doubt, but if we played a full strength Sydney every week, we wouldn’t have improved as much as if we played and injury plagued Richmond every week.

You get to do what you want to do more often against inferior sides.

 

[peetoo]

A big hole in 2023 was poor showings against middle rung teams. Much better in 2024. That is an improvement

 

[The Chad and I]

 

[Billyc]

I thought Finals were out of the question at the start of the season, and thought that 2025/26 is when we'd really start to push our way into the top eight (as our best youngsters will be hitting the 21+ age bracket) - to even be in the conversation at this point in the season is a good achievement. Never mind when you factor in the putrid start to the season we had.

So finals or not, if we play the season out with the same level of dare then the season has been a big success.

We've unearthed Dear. Wiz is showing the rare brilliance only few players possess. Mackenzie acclimatising to the pace of the league and showing his class when kicking. Chol, Ginnivan and D'Ambrosio have outperformed their expectations, and the latter two are only 21 and will surely continue to improve. Meek and Scrimshaw have announced themselves as legitimate quality players in their respective positions. Plus we have now seen what a few weeks worth of performances playing to our gameplan looks like, and it has been exciting.

The only real downsides have been Butler and Blanck (in particular) both being robbed of a year's worth of development, and DGB and Ward not establishing themselves as first team players (still time for the latter in particular) as yet.

In terms of pure ladder position at this time of the season we are about where I thought we’d probably land, but the season itself - in terms of how poorly we started and how well we are now playing - is very different.

My pre season prediction and expectation was that if we kept a fit list we would probably finish 11-12 but be close enough to the 8 for most of the year for finals to be a motivating force and something for fans to cling to. Though I expected something more resembling the season Gold Coast is having.

Other than Sydney and North the competition is very even so I don’t agree with HedgeFund that opposition quality has been that big of a factor in the wild change in performance. The start of the season was really bad with most games well over by half time and the last couple months have been absolutely terrific with enormous development. Some of that has been excellent coaching tweaks but also the rapid development of guys like Meek and Scrimshaw in key roles (credit to Simon Crawshay for predicting that) and the contributions from the three guys we brought across from other clubs and the sudden emergence of Dear etc.

As it currently stands, on form, we are absolutely a top 8 side with some clubs unexpectedly in free fall (Geelong, Melbourne, Port).

In terms of expectation I suspect we will fall just short and possibly miss on percentage. In terms of what I can realistically hope for, it would be scraping into finals and winning week one… eliminating Essendon or Geelong.

 

[The Chad and I]

We are playing like a top four team.
Whether we can maintain that form is another matter.

If we make the finals there’d be some nervous teams.

 

[Fleabane]

We don’t have “an embarrassment of riches on our list” by Rd 14.

We also weren’t the worst Hawthorn side in history after Rd 5.

It’s somewhere in between and playing some more teams who aren’t travelling too well has assisted us in developing our synergy and performing better.

As I stated, the quality of sides you’re playing against has a part to play in how you review the outcome.

It’s not black and white. There are shades of grey.

Some people on here just look at things through a binary prism. We are either completely crap or we are about to win a flag. Neither is, or was, the case.

We have improved as the season progressed - no doubt, but if we played a full strength Sydney every week, we wouldn’t have improved as much as if we played and injury plagued Richmond every week.

You get to do what you want to do more often against inferior sides.

I agree with your general point but just to be picky, if we played a full strength Sydney every week we would almost certainly improve more than playing an injury plagued Richmond every week. Results wouldn't show it but there's nothing like playing the best to get better at something. Unless you think that too and I've missed your point!

 

[HedgeFund]

I agree with your general point but just to be picky, if we played a full strength Sydney every week we would almost certainly improve more than playing an injury plagued Richmond every week. Results wouldn't show it but there's nothing like playing the best to get better at something. Unless you think that too and I've missed your point!

Understand that.

My point (which has been missed or overstated by some), is that our improvement within the season is due to a combination of factors.

This includes those sides we have played against not being top 4 sides.

We have also had the benefit of our midfield being largely intact since Day returned.

Opposition quality is not the decisive factor, but one of several which contributed to us performing better.

If people think we are performing at the level of a top 4 side so be it. My initial response was to the suggestion our list now has “an embarrassment of riches” compared to 2 months ago.

We are 13th on the ladder with a percentage of 92 - and we are travelling better than many here thought we would 2 months ago.

 

[extractasam]

We are playing like a top four team.
Whether we can maintain that form is another matter.

If we make the finals there’d be some nervous teams.

Absolutely we are. The team will face a lot more challenges than we think on our ascent up the ladder, every team does.

At the moment we are playing like a team with nothing to lose, but going into next year there will be internal and external expectations on the group and that will throw a whole new set of challenges to the group they havent experienced yet. Adelaide I think are going through that at the moment I think (although I think their coach is garbage)

 

[Roddy]

I know it's pretty unlikely that we snag both, but imagine if we added Baz and Battle to this side for next year? One or the other would be great (assuming Baz gets healthy again).

One can dream, can't one?

 

[KermitJagger]

Understand that.

My point (which has been missed or overstated by some), is that our improvement within the season is due to a combination of factors.

This includes those sides we have played against not being top 4 sides.

We have also had the benefit of our midfield being largely intact since Day returned.

Opposition quality is not the decisive factor, but one of several which contributed to us performing better.

If people think we are performing at the level of a top 4 side so be it. My initial response was to the suggestion our list now has “an embarrassment of riches” compared to 2 months ago.

We are 13th on the ladder with a percentage of 92 - and we are travelling better than many here thought we would 2 months ago.

The comment you were quoting about the embarrassment of riches was saying just what you're trying to say now. I took the comment to be a reflection on how we're spoken about by media talking heads (or people on this board) as opposed to statement that we actually have an embarrassment of riches, a comment on how quickly things change.

Either way, I think you took it further than just calling out that one comment and used it as an excuse to be a bit of a wet blanket on our overall form. Two of the clubs we've beaten recently that you called out in terms of their ladder position are, across the past 5 rounds, two of the 5 highest scoring teams - along with us, Sydney and Carlton. Along with GWS they make up 3 of the top 8 best defensive sides in the AFL too, once again with us being the best defensive side, and Sydney being the 2nd best. This is pure numbers.

You've framed them as "inferior sides", "lower quality" or not top 4 - but the reality is that in terms of form we, along with 2 of the teams we've beaten, make up 3 of the 4 or 5 most in form teams in the competition at this moment. For someone who is preaching shades of grey and perspective you've taken one hell of an absolutist stance in terms of ladder position.

 

[TylerDurden]

I know it's pretty unlikely that we snag both, but imagine if we added Baz and Battle to this side for next year? One or the other would be great (assuming Baz gets healthy again).

One can dream, can't one?

Baz looks ready to go now.

 

[Roddy]

Baz looks ready to go now.

Do you mean, ready to go as in, he's healthy, or he's ready to go from the Doggies?

Or both?

 

[cryptor]

Do you mean, ready to go as in, he's healthy, or he's ready to go from the Doggies?

Or both?

He’s in Greece on a rehabbing and training holiday. Posts on social media story today he looks a million bucks.

 

[TylerDurden]

Do you mean, ready to go as in, he's healthy, or he's ready to go from the Doggies?

Or both?

I'm saying he could play this weekend.

 

[HedgeFund]

The comment you were quoting about the embarrassment of riches was saying just what you're trying to say now. I took the comment to be a reflection on how we're spoken about by media talking heads (or people on this board) as opposed to statement that we actually have an embarrassment of riches, a comment on how quickly things change.

Either way, I think you took it further than just calling out that one comment and used it as an excuse to be a bit of a wet blanket on our overall form. Two of the clubs we've beaten recently that you called out in terms of their ladder position are, across the past 5 rounds, two of the 5 highest scoring teams - along with us, Sydney and Carlton. Along with GWS they make up 3 of the top 8 best defensive sides in the AFL too, once again with us being the best defensive side, and Sydney being the 2nd best. This is pure numbers.

You've framed them as "inferior sides", "lower quality" or not top 4 - but the reality is that in terms of form we, along with 2 of the teams we've beaten, make up 3 of the 4 or 5 most in form teams in the competition at this moment. For someone who is preaching shades of grey and perspective you've taken one hell of an absolutist stance in terms of ladder position.

So you’re saying the teams we have beaten in the past 2 months aren’t inferior to those we played in the first 6-7 rounds and I’m disagreeing with you.

Fine.

 

[KermitJagger]

So you’re saying the teams we have beaten in the past 2 months aren’t inferior to those we played in the first 6-7 rounds and I’m disagreeing with you.

Fine.

Given that 3 of the teams we have beaten in the last little bit of time have more recently beaten a lot of the sides we lost against earlier in the season, yes. I'd say you can't really judge them as inferior. If you're not willing to take recent form into account then more power to you.

 

[peetoo]

League is so close thst it’s a teams own consistency the major factor not the opposition
We had no day and were melding in new forwards in those early rounds

 

[cryptor]

League is so close thst it’s a teams own consistency the major factor not the opposition
We had no day and were melding in new forwards in those early rounds

We’re literally a timekeeping error against Port and one missed shot dead in front against the Pies from sitting in 4th.

Also flip the result against the Bombers in round 1 where they kicked well above expectation (+27.4) and Hawks below (-10.5) and we’d be 2nd.

Which is exactly where we are on that R8-R15 form ladder.

Which isn’t to say we should be top 4. Only that we’re playing good enough footy that we can expect to match it with all we face in the run home.