Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[TheFourPillars]

We were a bit rusty coming back from the bye. Even Chol missed a few before he got his groove in the second half

 

[Steven Tyler]

We still flub far too many chances. Missed shots, or just not making the right decision. 2 meters out next to the behind line trying to "center it" 30m out from goal. just snap a goal, dribbles with players on the mark, I think ginny missed a snap when Moore was alone in the goal square, a few times we move the ball and it's just 1 handball too many or we handball behind someone so instead of that play being a walk in goal it's a turnover 60m from goal.

When we start being lethal on those turn overs and hitting the scoreboard we will get some huge wins and challenge the best.

We are improving and Macdonald and Mackenzie have started that. Watson, Ginni and Dear start converting regularly look out.

That’s what happens when you are a work in process as Sam has said numerous times
The growth so far is fantastic though

 

[rei154]

We were a bit rusty coming back from the bye. Even Chol missed a few before he got his groove in the second half

Sammy clearly very annoyed with this-his reaction in the box was priceless and I think shows the competitive drive from him.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Sammy clearly very annoyed with this-his reaction in the box was priceless and I think shows the competitive drive from him.

It doesn't mean you don't get frustrated as a coach or supporter. I had to leave the bloody lounge every time we had a set shot my eldest was going off her nut.

 

[matey]

On the Couch tonight Lewy had a twinkle in his eye when talking about us. Said that watching the Hawks yesterday reminded him of when he played …… we assess the opposition first and then pull off kicks similar to the ones that Birchall, Guerra, Sammy use to that would open up the game!

 

[Roddy]

Just read something very eye-opening, apparently we are the 'are the only team in football history to be in 13th with a positive win-loss record, according to Champion Data.'

 

[The Chad and I]

On the Couch tonight Lewy had a twinkle in his eye when talking about us. Said that watching the Hawks yesterday reminded him of when he played …… we assess the opposition first and then pull off kicks similar to the ones that Birchall, Guerra, Sammy use to that would open up the game!

I got this feeling for the first time in years.

We really look like we can work the opposition out and split them open.

The forwards are ravenous and ruthless. Just need them to sharpen up.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

Edit: BrunoV said they'd like to be quoted so that they could see the responses here.

Hawthorn haven't passed us yet but it's like the world record line catching the tiring swimmer, it looks inevitable.

I was thinking they'd touch and turn ahead for round 1 2025 but all indications are that it will happen sooner. We're converging in a similar place but when I look at them I see a list being custom built for a specific style of play, the list implementing at least the foundation of that style of play (do not lose sight that this is not a discussion about whether Hawthorn is 'in contention') and the scope for an almost linear progression. I expect the progression to be linear mainly because they have their style of play, it's one that is proven in the heat of battle (by sides like Collingwood and Sydney), and also because key parts of the list will mature, they will not lose anyone of significance due to age and they'll be attractive enough to sign free agents like McKay who they missed last season. Contrast this with Adelaide of last season which was a list built for 15 years ago heavily reliant on aging stars. That their internal expectations were high simply exposes the cluelessness of the people running that club.

When I look at us I see a patchwork, the result of the 'take the talent' mentality with no real idea of how it all fits together, with no real identity and which is trying to implement different ideas to allow for the our traditional rebuild on the run. I don't mind a rebuild on the run, Hawthorn is doing it as is Geelong, but it gets into trouble when there is no clear picture of the way forward. It's why you end up doing it for the 3rd or 4th time in 10 years.

I do not think our issue is as much that we have x number of players who we need to replace, even though we play 6 to 8 players who are not really capable of performing a useful structural function, it's more that I do not know how we expect to be playing when we are good. It's the system that allows these players to play. Take the transition for example, we haven't really addressed it by increasing the capacity for front half defence. We're basically just loading up at D50 which is most of what we have been doing since 2017 to stem the bleeding. Is that what we want to be doing when we are good? If so, it doesn't require much evolution which means that we are likely limited to natural improvement of the current group. Coaches build the confidence of players by selling them on systems and then can't or won't change.

The only thing that gives me cause for doubt re Hawthorn is the general weakness of their key position stocks. I really like Calsher Dear but he's a kid. Lewis' body is James Stewart-level unreliable. Gunston is fodder these days and while Chol is effective he's not going to take a game from you in much the same what that Wright lacks that physical edge to his game. Their key defenders look gettable on paper. Frost has a mere in him and Sicily can't be relied on to defend guys who have 4 to 5 inches on him. Scrimshaw is now as much Ben Stratton as '(hopefully) Grant Birchall' but I'm not pinning my hopes on him. But then key position players are probably overrated, anyway, at least in the sense that a team can be really good without a glut of quality talls. Collingwood and Melbourne are 2 of the last 3 premiers and have a collective 2 elite key position players between them (i.e. May and Moore). The rest are B grade fodder at best.

I find it such a fascinating build which is why I am rooting for it. Don't get distracted by the reputation of the list based on the draft. From day 1 there has been such a clear vision for what they are trying to do and recruiting of players who are best suited to that vision. The focus of their game is turnovers, high intensity running and foot skills and they've built a team with those characteristics around the hard-ball pigs they have in the middle.

It looks like Mitchell and co are just putting together another, more high intensity version of the most recent dynasty era. As is usually the case the apple does not fall far from the tree. They're not going to be a team of clearances beasts.

Carefully targeted recruiting is probably best exemplified by the recruitment of D'Ambrosio. They didn't just take the punt on him they trusted him in the key role as a defensive playmaker. I can't think of many times a guy what that pedigree (i.e. a MSD recruit / rookie with only handful of senior games to his name) was trusted with that level of responsibility. A highly skilful left footed defensive playmaker with as many flaws in his game as strengths is about the most Hawthorn thing ever.

I think it is also easiest to see in McKenzie and Weddell. It is a bit harder to see it in Ward who has struggled to make his mark to date. McKenzie was probably the least sexy of the options in the top 15 in 2022 but he is so quintessentially a modern-dynasty-era-Hawthorn player. He has great endurance, he's very smart (with positioning and reading of the game) and is great by foot. But he's not going to be a clearance beast as he doesn't have that capacity. They also put their collective balls on the line, investing heavily in Weddell, more than many thought sensible at the time. But if you're putting the pieces together for Hawthorn, there is hardly anything more important than a 192cm general defender with his physicality, running power and counterattacking instincts. He's like a high octane combination of Stratton and Birchall.

I do not agree with everything, I still find their selection of Watson bizarre but I think it also highlights a singular focus on the requirements for their system.

They've got some decent depth developing off Broadway, too. Serong, Ward, Husthwaite and Ramseden have become very good VFL level players. Butler was kicking a lot of goals before he broke his leg. Scaife looks to have some tricks as a key forward. Lewis is always going to be at least that tease. It's a work in progress. I think they're probably 2 off-seasons of FA recruiting and development from being a genuine challenger.

 

[hawkheart]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

Thanks. This is very astute.

 

[moginie]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

Fascinating take from an outsider. Certainly the idea of "are we going to be playing like this when we're good?" game style of theirs would be concerning when confronted with something quite unified as the what we have put together under Mitchell, McCartney, McKenzie and company.

 

[play2win]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

His description of the scums list and playing style directly reflects my external view of dodo and how he seemed to operate in isolation of the coaching group, as opposed to us where players drafted/traded/pursued seem to be joint decisions between the list management and coaching group working cohesively.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

Read that yesterday. Scattergun approach indeed

 

[KermitJagger]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

This is interesting in that it's the first time I've seen someone doing an analysis of an opposition club where they've conceded that key position talent isn't as important as it used to be.

 

[tommyk72]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

With that level of detailed analysis I feel like that poster must be one of the coaching staff. Glad to hear they’re rooting for us

 

[Judd2Sewell]

This is interesting in that it's the first time I've seen someone doing an analysis of an opposition club where they've conceded that key position talent isn't as important as it used to be.

I think recent history shows that it's more important to have an elite KPD than it is to have an elite KPF.

Geelong had Scarlett and Taylor.

Collingwood had Moore, plus Howe playing an interceptor role.

Melbourne had May, plus Lever playing an interceptor role.

They also all had solid roleplaying defenders like Lonergan, Petty and Murphy simply doing a job.

The collective KPF's were Mooney, a young Hawkins, Nathan Ablett, Ben Brown, MacDonald, Frampton, Mihocek. Such an uninspiring list.

 

[MasterSamurai]

-High intensity pressure all over the ground.
- spreading from congestion quicker so that there's no need for over possessing the ball, so, therefore, less room for mistakes.
I made mention of this well over a month a go when our game style started to look a bit different. I made mention at the time that it was too early to see if it's a sustainable game plan or just something different for a week or two. Well, it seems that it's a stayer!
- still need to be ruthless going inside fifty though, too many missed opportunities which in a game that really matters, may sting us in the backside.

 

[The Chad and I]

On the Couch tonight Lewy had a twinkle in his eye when talking about us. Said that watching the Hawks yesterday reminded him of when he played …… we assess the opposition first and then pull off kicks similar to the ones that Birchall, Guerra, Sammy use to that would open up the game!

Anybody have a link?

 

[QuietB]

One thing I noticed against the Eagles is how well the players know where each other will be. Some of the fast ball movement was based purely on trust. That is elite coaching.

 

[Rich]

One thing I noticed against the Eagles is how well the players know where each other will be. Some of the fast ball movement was based purely on trust. That is elite coaching.

This is what I’ve noticed.

And the progression from that has been an improvement in disposal as they know where they need to put it. Our quality of handballs for instance is light years away from even 12 months ago.

I used to despair at the handballs to the feet of a bloke standing still - now the handball goes a metre in front of the guy who is running past and away they go.

 

[QuietB]

This is what I’ve noticed.

And the progression from that has been an improvement in disposal as they know where they need to put it. Our quality of handballs for instance is light years away from even 12 months ago.

I used to despair at the handballs to the feet of a bloke standing still - now the handball goes a metre in front of the guy who is running past and away they go.

That sort of attention to detail was Mitchell’s superpower

 

[satan1]

Being "predictable" to each other is a new drinking game when listening to the players/coaches.

Simple and effective seems to beat the complex and erratic of early in the season.

One of the funny ones I noticed on the weekend was how often player bounced the loose ball like you would in basketball in order to gather. We were noticeably cleaner below the knees.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Predictable to each other is predictable to the opposition as well. The better opposition, anyways. Geelong have, frustratingly, long been good at camping in the likely lanes of attack and stomping on the bursting line-breaking run. Although the Cats are hard on the decline, I’m a little nervous that they pull one last good defensive scouting effort out of their backslides this weekend.

If a Geelong player has camped on the Option A lane, I hope our boys can adjust and run instead to Option B. And being it’s a Cats v Hawks game, I think Geelong will have more than one good rally. The Tigers crumpled after Dusty’s goal. They only had that one burst in them for the whole game. The Cats are much better. They’ll come back at us a number of times. This game will be a big test for our players’ maturity and the depth of our system. Or the depth that they have managed to master to this point.

 

[hawkman]

This is what I’ve noticed.

And the progression from that has been an improvement in disposal as they know where they need to put it. Our quality of handballs for instance is light years away from even 12 months ago.

I used to despair at the handballs to the feet of a bloke standing still - now the handball goes a metre in front of the guy who is running past and away they go.

2-3 months ago. I can't remember if it was after the Melbourne or Sydney game but I posted after the game that we are the worst handballing team in the comp

 

[Lebbo73]

Yes, because North are flying at the moment ...

Yep I just love the days of playing Patton and Minchington over Moore and Lewis.

This was never going to happen. BOTH political sides of the Club agree AC had done everything possible.

Sometimes you have to admit when you’re wrong. I was wrong about Sam and I just thought that I better say this.

 

[matey]

Anybody have a link?

Apologies a bit scratchy but hope it works