Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 5 - The stroll out.

[Chief]

Continued in Part 6.

Play Nice - Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 6 - Prosperity Theology, The Coal Man + His Bootlickers

Part 5 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-5-the-stroll-out.1275975/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Festerz]

This is such a farce.

The US and British governments have kept their nuclear developments secret for three quarters of a century. Outside of their nuclear weapons capability they regard their shared development of their nuclear propulsion technology as their most valuable and highly classified nuclear asset. This is technology they have not shared with their closest European allies or with Canada.

And yet, on a whim, they are prepared to share this holiest of their most valuable nuclear secrets with a government only months from a popular election that has this man as its Defence Minister:



Seriously?

I am gobsmacked that anyone could look at this 'announcement' in context and not think that it, as it has been presented thus far by our PM and his Ministers, is totally and utterly absurd.

 

[Number37]

This is such a farce.

The US and British governments have kept their nuclear developments secret for three quarters of a century. Outside of their nuclear weapons capability they regard their shared development of their nuclear propulsion technology as their most valuable and highly classified nuclear asset. This is technology they have not shared with their closest European allies or with Canada.

And yet, on a whim, they are prepared to share this holiest of their most valuable nuclear secrets with a government only months from a popular election that has this man as its Defence Minister:



Seriously?

I am gobsmacked that anyone could look at this 'announcement' in context and not think that it, as it has been presented thus far by our PM and his Ministers, totally and utterly absurd.

Perfectly consistent with everything sQomo has done to date.

Smoke and mirrors, then he disappears before anyone can ask him any questions.

 

[Paul Kersey]

This is such a farce.

The US and British governments have kept their nuclear developments secret for three quarters of a century. Outside of their nuclear weapons capability they regard their shared development of their nuclear propulsion technology as their most valuable and highly classified nuclear asset. This is technology they have not shared with their closest European allies or with Canada.

And yet, on a whim, they are prepared to share this holiest of their most valuable nuclear secrets with a government only months from a popular election that has this man as its Defence Minister:



Seriously?

I am gobsmacked that anyone could look at this 'announcement' in context and not think that it, as it has been presented thus far by our PM and his Ministers, is totally and utterly absurd.

It’s all show and tell. The ‘fella from down under’ looked like the dumb **** he is standing there smirking like the slow kid from The Simpsons.

 

[Sphynx]

This is such a farce.

The US and British governments have kept their nuclear developments secret for three quarters of a century. Outside of their nuclear weapons capability they regard their shared development of their nuclear propulsion technology as their most valuable and highly classified nuclear asset. This is technology they have not shared with their closest European allies or with Canada.

And yet, on a whim, they are prepared to share this holiest of their most valuable nuclear secrets with a government only months from a popular election that has this man as its Defence Minister:



Seriously?

I am gobsmacked that anyone could look at this 'announcement' in context and not think that it, as it has been presented thus far by our PM and his Ministers, is totally and utterly absurd.

Weird take.

By whim, you mean 18 months right?

 

[GreyWind]

It’s all show and tell. The ‘fella from down under’ looked like the dumb fu** he is standing there smirking like the slow kid from The Simpsons.

I get more these vibes, helps he's a fat, dumb, bald campaigner as well

 

[Sphynx]

Any chance this turns into the Astute class subs? Joint deal including the UK, we buy some more (more subs than the UK currently has though???) And they continue to build?

Of course it is.

It’s why the UK is involved and it’s simply not Aus/US.

It will be the Astute hull, Rolls Royce reactors with the Block V Virginia weapons systems

There’s talk we will lease a Los Angeles class to train on nuclear subs and more than likely send our submariners over to the RN to train like we have done with countless other capabilities and when we bought our first submarine fleet.

The media is way off on the French compensation numbers. There were staged cancellation damage costs built into the Attack class agreement. $90m to start and then it increased to $400m once the design deliverables were completed. The French has missed that deadline continually for the last 9 months. The compensation amount is $90m.

 

[Sphynx]

I get more these vibes, helps he's a fat, dumb, bald campaigner as well

Yet most in the ADF thinks he’s already shaping up as the best defence minister we’ve had in decades.

People underestimate the fact this story never leaked to the press via the French, Aus, UK, US etc. Not an easy feat. It’s also been discussed between the latter three 3 for 18 months.

Theres been little to no information and speculation under Dutton as there normally has in the last 3 decades regarding defence procurement.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yet most in the ADF thinks he’s already shaping up as the best defence minister we’ve had in decades.

People underestimate the fact this story never leaked to the press via the French, Aus, UK, US etc. Not an easy feat. It’s also been discussed between the latter three 3 for 18 months.

Theres been little to no information and speculation under Dutton as there normally has in thee last 3 decades regarding defence procurement.

Talk if cancelling the French contract has been in the media for months

 

[Sphynx]

Talk if cancelling the French contract has been in the media for months

More opinion pieces regarding the programme overrun than reporting any fact or rumour.

Nuclear was absolute pie in the sky stuff until 2 days ago.

It’s the single biggest capability change in Australian Military History and one of the largest world wide in a decade or so.

People saying “we have less boats now” are absolutely kidding themselves. You may as well compare a Holden Astra to an Abrams tank when comparing a Virginia to a Diesel powered Barracuda.

This is a global game changer and as was mentioned a few posts above, not one that’s happened in 70 years.

Sub technology is the crown jewel of the USN and the RAN has just been handed the keys to the vault, unbelievably...

 

[Ned_Flanders]

More opinion pieces regarding the programme overrun than reporting any fact or rumour.

Nuclear was absolute pie in the sky stuff until 2 days ago.

It’s the single biggest capability change in Australian Military History and one of the largest world wide in a decade or so.

People saying “we have less boats now” are absolutely kidding themselves.

This is a global game changer and as was mentioned a few posts above, not one that’s happened in 70 years.

Sub technology is the crown jewel of the USN and the RAN has just been handed the keys to the safe, unbelievably...

Where do you think the talk was coming from?

I remember talking about this very issue a year ago with my mate at the Limerick Arms

 

[Sphynx]

Where do you think the talk was coming from?

I remember talking about this very issue a year ago with my mate at the Limerick Arms

You and your mate may have been talking about the overruns, there’s been plenty of opinion pieces on going for Nuclear subs (like it was just an option we could pick off the shelf)

There’s been 50 opinion pieces in the same time about just picking up the phone and ordering 100 F-22 Raptors, despite the production line being closed for a decade and the planes marked by congress never for export.

Australia obtaining Nuclear subs would have been paying $1,000,000 / 1 at any point in the last 25 years, never more than last week.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You and your mate may have been talking about the overruns, there’s been plenty of opinion pieces on going for Nuclear subs (like it was just an option we could pick off the shelf)

There’s been 50 opinion pieces in the same time about just picking up the phone and ordering 100 F-22 Raptors, despite the production line being closed for a decade and the planes marked by congress never for export.

Australia obtaining Nuclear subs would have been paying $1,000,000 / 1 at any point in the last 25 years, never more than last week.

We were talking about news reports the the govt were wanting the French contract to be ditched for a switch to nuclear boats. And what happened???

 

[Festerz]

Theres been little to no information and speculation under Dutton as there normally has in the last 3 decades regarding defence procurement.

What utter rubbish. The problems with the French submarine contract have been speculated for well over 12 months and openly discussed in Senate Estimates hearings. Because when it comes to major defence procurement projects involving taxpayer dollars - and this is the largest ever- that is what we as a Parliamentary democracy do.

As for the lack of talk about this new announcement. There has been no talk because there are no details. It is a flim-flam announcement of epic proportions with not one shred of facts to back it up or discuss.

There’s talk we will lease a Los Angeles class to train on nuclear subs….

Oh...So having said there was no speculation under Dutton about the open long established contract for the French designed submarines, you are now saying that there is 'talk' about exact details about how this announcement that has not even been discussed in Parliament will be implemented? This talk (i.e. gossip) adds credibility to your views on the project how exactly?

Sub technology is the crown jewel of the USN and the RAN has just been handed the keys to the vault, unbelievably...

You at least got the unbelievable part right.

 

[Number37]

Of course it is.

It’s why the UK is involved and it’s simply not Aus/US.

It will be the Astute hull, Rolls Royce reactors with the Block V Virginia weapons systems

There’s talk we will lease a Los Angeles class to train on nuclear subs and more than likely send our submariners over to the RN to train like we have done with countless other capabilities and when we bought our first submarine fleet.

The media is way off on the French compensation numbers. There were staged cancellation damage costs built into the Attack class agreement. $90m to start and then it increased to $400m once the design deliverables were completed. The French has missed that deadline continually for the last 9 months. The compensation amount is $90m.

The latest developments in submarine tech have all been focused on the propulsion system, but it's not about propulsion, it is about directed-energy weapons.
Directed-energy weapons require massive amounts of energy.
The new-age propulsion systems are the key to generating the massive amounts of energy needed for directed-energy weapons.
The Chinese cracked the code in 2017.

https://www.popsci.com/china-new-submarine-engine-revolutionize-underwater-warfare/


What we're buying is a souped-up Hyundai Excel to compete against a Ferrari.

 

[Sphynx]

What utter rubbish. The problems with the French submarine contract have been speculated for well over 12 months and openly discussed in Senate Estimates hearings. Because when it comes to major defence procurement projects involving taxpayer dollars - and this is the largest ever- that is what we as a Parliamentary democracy do.

As for the lack of talk about this new announcement. There has been no talk because there are no details. It is a flim-flam announcement of epic proportions with not one shred of facts to back it up or discuss.




Oh...So having said there was no speculation under Dutton about the open long established contract for the French designed submarines, you are now saying that there is 'talk' about exact details about how this announcement that has not even been discussed in Parliament will be implemented? This talk (i.e. gossip) adds credibility to your views on the project how exactly?




You at least got the unbelievable part right.

Read the press release mate. You won’t find facts, you aren’t going to get facts either.

What’s discussed in Parliament will be high level, round figures only

AUKUS and the procurement programmed is completely classified.

You think the RN and USN sub technology is going to be open slather for discussion in question time?

 

[Festerz]

AUKUS and the procurement programmed is completely c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶i̶f̶i̶e̶d̶ vapourware.

Fixed that for you.

What’s discussed in Parliament will be high level, round figures only

Pretty obvious you have zero understanding of the Commonwealth budget and expenditure process.

You realise the Hunt for Red October was a fiction novel right?

 

[Sphynx]

The latest developments in submarine tech have all been focused on the propulsion system, but it's not about propulsion, it is about directed-energy weapons.
Directed-energy weapons require massive amounts of energy.
The new-age propulsion systems are the key to generating the massive amounts of energy needed for directed-energy weapons.
The Chinese cracked the code in 2017.

https://www.popsci.com/china-new-submarine-engine-revolutionize-underwater-warfare/

Yet people are advocating Diesel subs in here?

Do they realise there’s budgeting power estimates in everything a Diesel/Electric sub does?

Can only operate its weapon systems for certain periods of the day, can only heat certain sections of the boat, can only run at certain speeds for certain amount of time etc etc.

 

[Number37]

Yet people are advocating Diesel subs in here?

Do they realise there’s budgeting power estimates in everything a Diesel/Electric sub does?

Can only operate its weapon systems for certain periods of the day, can only heat certain sections of the boat, can only run at certain speeds for certain amount of time etc etc.

You said we were getting 'the keys to the vault'.
We are maybe getting the keys to the old vault, depending on our ability to successfully design a sub.

Along with China...Russia, US and India have all cracked the code to IEPS. The benefit of IEPS isn't in propulsion, it is in weapons.
The US haven't even given that code to the Brits, they're not giving it to us.

 

[Sphynx]

You said we were getting 'the keys to the vault'.
We are maybe getting the keys to the old vault, depending on our ability to successfully design a sub.

Russia, US and India have all cracked the code to IEPS. The benefit of IEPS isn't in propulsion, it is in weapons.
The US haven't even given that code to the Brits, they're not giving it to us.

I know what IEPS is.

There’s also no guarantee we will be developing Astute based subs either.

They could be Dreadnought or SSN(x) given the timelines.

You must have missed the other part of the release that spoke about the USA helping us develop Hypersonic missiles, quantum technologies and what’s been rumored for the last few months, inclusion in the B-21 program.

Nothings off the table now.

 

[jatz14]

See theres easy bits to pick out of this post that mar this analysis.


Yes they are faster - lots faster - a nuclear virginia class can do 20 kts without cavitating at depth.

For as long as they have to - to get where they are going.

A diesel electric will do 20kts for a very short time before exhausting the batteries and having to surface and recharge where they are very vulnerable.


Nucs can transit to areas at speed that diesel electrics have to transit slowly.

But speed doesn't trump the fact we could get 20 or so Japanese subs for what these nuclear subs will cost, and get them much much sooner, at much less risk. A conventional sub doesn't need speed to go from A to B, if you can have one at A and B. How much does the speed of a nuclear sub that hasn't been built yet help us, if the Collins go belly up first?

 

[darrenmorgan]

Breaking: France will recall its ambassadors from Australia and the US after the Morrison government's decision to tear up a $90 billion contract to buy 12 French submarines.

Is this anything this clown touches that he doesn’t **** up?

 

[Juddism]

More opinion pieces regarding the programme overrun than reporting any fact or rumour.

Nuclear was absolute pie in the sky stuff until 2 days ago.

It’s the single biggest capability change in Australian Military History and one of the largest world wide in a decade or so.

People saying “we have less boats now” are absolutely kidding themselves. You may as well compare a Holden Astra to an Abrams tank when comparing a Virginia to a Diesel powered Barracuda.

This is a global game changer and as was mentioned a few posts above, not one that’s happened in 70 years.

Sub technology is the crown jewel of the USN and the RAN has just been handed the keys to the vault, unbelievably...

Lol…that will take 20+ years to develop! By then, we won’t stand a chance against the Chinese and the rate that they pump naval vessels out.

We’re kidding ourselves, if it is so important then why is ScoMo happy for us to wait 2 decades? This is nothing more than serving the US interests in the region.

At the end of the day the US and it’s allies couldn’t beat the Taliban or the Vietcong, and we’re willing to gamble that we can beat China with an extra 8 nuclear powered subs for this place in the middle of nowhere that are due 20 years from now?


Talk about risky.

 

[DickieKnee]

Breaking: France will recall its ambassadors from Australia and the US after the Morrison government's decision to tear up a $90 billion contract to buy 12 French submarines.

Is this anything this clown touches that he doesn’t fu** up?

He's way out of his league. Staggers me he never informed the French before his big public announcement.

 

[Hornberger]

Breaking: France will recall its ambassadors from Australia and the US after the Morrison government's decision to tear up a $90 billion contract to buy 12 French submarines.

The french are being extremely petulant and their outrage is completely unjustified. It was a commercial contract for the supply of military hardware, not a military alliance or mutual defense pact.

Australia has changed its minds on its defense procurement strategy. It is a straight forward question of breach of contract and payment of compensation for the breach.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Remember a few months back when the French guy flew here?

He quarantined for 2 weeks then the defence minister wouldn't meet with him because she took sick leave when the Britney Higgins stuff happened.

Police open Higgins rape claim inquiry, minister taken to hospital

Brittany Higgins officially reported her alleged rape to the police on Wednesday, just hours after her former boss took medical leave.

www.afr.com