SFNL Division 1 2023 discussion

[Tackle Bag]

I would class a short drive being approx 10kms

the pinned map shows that 7 SFNL clubs out of 38 member clubs fall from within this 10km radius from Narre's ground, with a couple more just outside. So half the competition is a generalisation.
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Agree most division 1 -2 clubs didn't batter an eyelid about Div 4 going to the peninsula as they were unaffected

Yeah, I don’t think any of the clubs just outside your chosen radius of 10km would have any issues driving to narre, it’s an easier drive than travelling to many of the bayside clubs closer to the city.

My point was that narre sits pretty comfortably within the leagues boundaries given the expansion that has already occurred in the last decade or so.

I’d bet that over the next 5 years or so Hampton Park and Doveton will settle into Div one and if you add Narre to the existing Div one clubs you could make a decent argument that the south east is becoming the new heartland of the league.

Won’t be long before Pakenham comes knocking.

This was always going to be on the cards once the SEFNL started to collapse. For those against the growth out into the SE, The time to stand up was probably back when Hampton Park applied to join.

Not that the clubs get a choice anyway. They somehow lost the right to vote on new teams entering a long time ago.

 

[gelder01]

a few inner city clubs should be in different comp. Narre coming into Southern will improve the leagues status as a relevant competition.
Hey let’s go back to South East Suburban Football League, more relevant than Southern these days.
Narre, Cranny, HP, Dove x 2, Dandy, Lyndale, Lyndhurst, Endeavour Hills, Narre Sth are all called south east suburbs now.

 

[notalegent]

Any Divi 1 news, Who's recruiting and back training yet.

 

[magpies2013]

Any Divi 1 news, Who's recruiting and back training yet.

Cranny lost a couple of premiership players to Rosebud in the Mpnfl

 

[Greg Tivendale]

Dino Karamoshos staying with the Doggies but in different colours (Highett).
Liam Sumner also on the move to country VIC

 

[Bunk Moreland]

a few inner city clubs should be in different comp. Narre coming into Southern will improve the leagues status as a relevant competition.
Hey let’s go back to South East Suburban Football League, more relevant than Southern these days.
Narre, Cranny, HP, Dove x 2, Dandy, Lyndale, Lyndhurst, Endeavour Hills, Narre Sth are all called south east suburbs now.

Port Colts and St Kilda City are really outliers, they’re unique in terms of being genuine inner city. Port are still a lot closer to many WRFL clubs, but obviously wanted to come south.

East Malvern, Ashwood and South Yarra should be in Eastern.

Eastern were long courting Narre but they couldn't do it as there's no Saturday netball. Eastern tried to get Berwick and Beaconsfield junior clubs across last year, and interesting also Narre North JFC. My guess would be they're keen to make that happen and from there Narre North will start a senior club in the EFNL.

 

[God Yeah]

Port Colts and St Kilda City are really outliers, they’re unique in terms of being genuine inner city. Port are still a lot closer to many WRFL clubs, but obviously wanted to come south.

East Malvern, Ashwood and South Yarra should be in Eastern.

Eastern were long courting Narre but they couldn't do it as there's no Saturday netball. Eastern tried to get Berwick and Beaconsfield junior clubs across last year, and interesting also Narre North JFC. My guess would be they're keen to make that happen and from there Narre North will start a senior club in the EFNL.

Why should East Malvern, Ashwood and SY be in Eastern? Gut feel? or purely because of geography?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Why should East Malvern, Ashwood and SY be in Eastern? Gut feel? or purely because of geography?

Geography. They’re the only clubs north of the Monash in the SFL.

Oakleigh District and Noble Park are the opposite.

Who knows what the future will bring but you wonder if Noble would ever consider a move back. Apparently they originally moved because they considered the EFNL a higher standard and more professional. But you had a SFNL with Cranbourne, Narre, Dingley, Port Colts, St Kilda City and others then it starts to look very strong. Plus any other outer south eastern big clubs if they developed. It’s the most populous part of Melbourne but they have never developed the footy clubs and league. Maybe they could one day.

Plus leagues are much more equal these days with points systems etc.

 

[gelder01]

Port Colts and St Kilda City are really outliers, they’re unique in terms of being genuine inner city. Port are still a lot closer to many WRFL clubs, but obviously wanted to come south.

East Malvern, Ashwood and South Yarra should be in Eastern.

Eastern were long courting Narre but they couldn't do it as there's no Saturday netball. Eastern tried to get Berwick and Beaconsfield junior clubs across last year, and interesting also Narre North JFC. My guess would be they're keen to make that happen and from there Narre North will start a senior club in the EFNL.

Stay tuned, Narre 2024 Div 1 EFNL is still a consideration for the board, but $$$ wise, SFNL is very slight favourite atm, with the attraction of renewing rivalry with Cranny, Dingley etc.

As for a Narre Nth Foxes senior club, heard that it won't happen in the foreseeable future.....Hallam, Endeavour Hills, Narre, Doveton x 2 all within 5km radius. If Dovie Eagles fold then i'd think it would be more of a possibility...

 

[Billy the Lid]

Stay tuned, Narre 2024 Div 1 EFNL is still a consideration for the board, but $$$ wise, SFNL is very slight favourite atm, with the attraction of renewing rivalry with Cranny, Dingley etc.

As for a Narre Nth Foxes senior club, heard that it won't happen in the foreseeable future.....Hallam, Endeavour Hills, Narre, Doveton x 2 all within 5km radius. If Dovie Eagles fold then i'd think it would be more of a possibility...

SFNL needs to work out what it stands for. A selling point for years was the local rivalries and geography. If the intention now is to expand and create a multi-division competition then great but let’s be transparent about that. Remember we started as a five-division comp when the ESCFL and SESFL joined up but soon clubs merged, disbanded or folded as they were competing for the same shallow pool of players. Every external South-East corridor club you bring in is another kick in the guts for battling SFNL clubs already in that area.

Personally would like to see them attract established clubs from the Southern area proper – Edi Asp, Chelsea, Beaumaris, Parkdale rather than expand out to Pakenham FFS.

Due to previous affiliation I keep an eye on the VAFA. There is considerable angst in the ammos at the moment about how only a handful of clubs can reach the very top and how battling club in the lower grades, not only have little prospect of competing against the most powerful clubs, but have to travel inordinate distances. Seems that we are intent on heading down the same path.

Compare say a Narre Warren with 25 plus junior teams, and 100 families a month moving into the area with a Springvale. No juniors, no U18s, older demographic with many residents born overseas or first gen. Suburb has maxed out so no growth and no new families.

Careful what you wish for.

 

[gelder01]

SFNL needs to work out what it stands for. A selling point for years was the local rivalries and geography. If the intention now is to expand and create a multi-division competition then great but let’s be transparent about that. Remember we started as a five-division comp when the ESCFL and SESFL joined up but soon clubs merged, disbanded or folded as they were competing for the same shallow pool of players. Every external South-East corridor club you bring in is another kick in the guts for battling SFNL clubs already in that area.

Personally would like to see them attract established clubs from the Southern area proper – Edi Asp, Chelsea, Beaumaris, Parkdale rather than expand out to Pakenham FFS.

Due to previous affiliation I keep an eye on the VAFA. There is considerable angst in the ammos at the moment about how only a handful of clubs can reach the very top and how battling club in the lower grades, not only have little prospect of competing against the most powerful clubs, but have to travel inordinate distances. Seems that we are intent on heading down the same path.

Compare say a Narre Warren with 25 plus junior teams, and 100 families a month moving into the area with a Springvale. No juniors, no U18s, older demographic with many residents born overseas or first gen. Suburb has maxed out so no growth and no new families.

Careful what you wish for.

Can't see Officer nor Pakenham going to Southern FFS.

Billy, do you propose more leagues to fit clubs in, in each 10 Km demographic, because from Cardinia out is expanding rapidly and every club from there back to central Melbourne will be a "Springvale". Do we have a "boutique" league consisting of Dingley, Springvale, Clayton, Oakleigh Dist, Keysborough, Dandenong, Lyndale etc. All Clubs in maxed out suburbs with many residents born overseas or first gen. Also Narre Warren Junior Football club had 3 teams last year across U9 to U16, so not all is entirely well around the area.

Every 5 - 10 years the demographics are changing!

Clubs and leagues need to understand that they will need to change & adapt. There will no doubt have to be mergers or clubs folding
This why the MPNFL will be a shit comp in 5 years! They had an opportunity to change and grow but unfortunately people down south have long memories and have held long grudges, to the detriment of the competition and their own clubs.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Stay tuned, Narre 2024 Div 1 EFNL is still a consideration for the board, but $$$ wise, SFNL is very slight favourite atm, with the attraction of renewing rivalry with Cranny, Dingley etc.

As for a Narre Nth Foxes senior club, heard that it won't happen in the foreseeable future.....Hallam, Endeavour Hills, Narre, Doveton x 2 all within 5km radius. If Dovie Eagles fold then i'd think it would be more of a possibility...

Think they’re trying to get Narre North across for a reason. If the club and EFNL want to start a senior club then none of those clubs will have a say in it, they’re all in other leagues.

It’ll depend if they think they’re placed to do it. They have 18 teams so will judge if they think they can build that into seniors and won’t care about the fortunes of their surrounding senior clubs in other leagues.

Won’t happen if Narre join the EFNL but if they don’t, well, as I said, EFNL and Narre North are looking to get together for a reason.

The other hurdle for Narre is getting the votes to get in. EFNL clubs have always just waved new clubs in. That attitude is starting to swing, particularly off the back of two relegations and no promotions this year. Not sure the clubs will be as keen to welcome another big club in.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Due to previous affiliation I keep an eye on the VAFA. There is considerable angst in the ammos at the moment about how only a handful of clubs can reach the very top and how battling club in the lower grades, not only have little prospect of competing against the most powerful clubs, but have to travel inordinate distances. Seems that we are intent on heading down the same path.

Compare say a Narre Warren with 25 plus junior teams, and 100 families a month moving into the area with a Springvale. No juniors, no U18s, older demographic with many residents born overseas or first gen. Suburb has maxed out so no growth and no new families.

Careful what you wish for.

The VAFA is simply too big. Seven divisions vertically makes it a ridiculous task to rise up the ranks.

It's the same issue with the EFNL that I referred to in the previous post. The clubs have been asleep at the wheel for over a decade and just waved all these new clubs in under the league's empire building strategy. Now reality has hit and the attitude is starting to turn a bit as they realise what they've created and how it's impacting them personally. They can't go up this year with no promotion, and two in each division are getting relegated. It's incredibly competitive and getting to the top division of 10 clubs is very, very hard.

I think they've probably overcooked it, four divisions seemed like a decent number, five might just be a bit over the top. You look at the North and West and they have three divisions (and barely now in the west).

Compounding the issue, talking to club people, is the structure of NAB League / VFL now without reserves. Many VFL clubs especially are now insisting that their "listed players" play in the top local division. So if you're a division or two down, you lose you talented players as they're forced to align and join a Premier division club - where they play all of their footy because they don't get a VFL game.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider Division 1 EFNL (the second tier) would easily be the equivalent of top tier in the other leagues or the country.

In short, the squeeze is on, it's harder than ever and clubs aren't happy at the lack of opportunity to play at "the highest level". VAFA, EFNL and SFNL are 16 divisions... that should probably be four leagues, not three.

 

[Billy the Lid]

Can't see Officer nor Pakenham going to Southern FFS.

Billy, do you propose more leagues to fit clubs in, in each 10 Km demographic, because from Cardinia out is expanding rapidly and every club from there back to central Melbourne will be a "Springvale". Do we have a "boutique" league consisting of Dingley, Springvale, Clayton, Oakleigh Dist, Keysborough, Dandenong, Lyndale etc. All Clubs in maxed out suburbs with many residents born overseas or first gen. Also Narre Warren Junior Football club had 3 teams last year across U9 to U16, so not all is entirely well around the area.

Every 5 - 10 years the demographics are changing!

Clubs and leagues need to understand that they will need to change & adapt. There will no doubt have to be mergers or clubs folding
This why the MPNFL will be a s**t comp in 5 years! They had an opportunity to change and grow but unfortunately people down south have long memories and have held long grudges, to the detriment of the competition and their own clubs.

I’m actually not proposing anything. I just think that if the SFNL are going to pitch it is being a geographically localised competition (which it has) then you either stick to that mantra or you don’t. I’m also not totally opposed to an expansion, but you have to acknowledge that it comes with a price.

Demographics can take generations to change in some areas. AFL has been dead in Greater Dandenong for over 20 years. I’m old enough to remember a vibrant DDJFL. That’s gone as have many of the clubs, junior and senior. Sandown, Lyndale, Dandenong, St Johns, Doveton Eagles are either on their last legs or have at times battled to keep the doors open. For the greater good we can throw it open and allow anyone and everyone to get on board, but you have to accept that there will be negatives. There is no need for “boutique” league, as if we keep going down this path then that will take care of itself with “have and have nots” virtually dividing the competition, just like the ammos.

I only used Springvale as an example of a suburb that simply cannot support a senior football club. I think their juniors folded 20 plus years ago and that they been able to survive and in fact thrive, is a credit to them. However their recruiting model to be competitive in D1 is not sustainable long term. Older areas like Clayton and Dandenong have the same challenges.

 

[bedford]

SFNL needs to work out what it stands for. A selling point for years was the local rivalries and geography. If the intention now is to expand and create a multi-division competition then great but let’s be transparent about that. Remember we started as a five-division comp when the ESCFL and SESFL joined up but soon clubs merged, disbanded or folded as they were competing for the same shallow pool of players. Every external South-East corridor club you bring in is another kick in the guts for battling SFNL clubs already in that area.

Personally would like to see them attract established clubs from the Southern area proper – Edi Asp, Chelsea, Beaumaris, Parkdale rather than expand out to Pakenham FFS.

Due to previous affiliation I keep an eye on the VAFA. There is considerable angst in the ammos at the moment about how only a handful of clubs can reach the very top and how battling club in the lower grades, not only have little prospect of competing against the most powerful clubs, but have to travel inordinate distances. Seems that we are intent on heading down the same path.

Compare say a Narre Warren with 25 plus junior teams, and 100 families a month moving into the area with a Springvale. No juniors, no U18s, older demographic with many residents born overseas or first gen. Suburb has maxed out so no growth and no new families.

Careful what you wish for.

Great post , look at the proposed Footy Southern Bayside model

 

[gelder01]

The VAFA is simply too big. Seven divisions vertically makes it a ridiculous task to rise up the ranks.

It's the same issue with the EFNL that I referred to in the previous post. The clubs have been asleep at the wheel for over a decade and just waved all these new clubs in under the league's empire building strategy. Now reality has hit and the attitude is starting to turn a bit as they realise what they've created and how it's impacting them personally. They can't go up this year with no promotion, and two in each division are getting relegated. It's incredibly competitive and getting to the top division of 10 clubs is very, very hard.

I think they've probably overcooked it, four divisions seemed like a decent number, five might just be a bit over the top. You look at the North and West and they have three divisions (and barely now in the west).

Compounding the issue, talking to club people, is the structure of NAB League / VFL now without reserves. Many VFL clubs especially are now insisting that their "listed players" play in the top local division. So if you're a division or two down, you lose you talented players as they're forced to align and join a Premier division club - where they play all of their footy because they don't get a VFL game.

Which doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider Division 1 EFNL (the second tier) would easily be the equivalent of top tier in the other leagues or the country.

In short, the squeeze is on, it's harder than ever and clubs aren't happy at the lack of opportunity to play at "the highest level". VAFA, EFNL and SFNL are 16 divisions... that should probably be four leagues, not three.

Okay, been told that Eastern have approved Narre in Div 1 for 2024 (in 2022} but Narre looking at Southern due to $$$$$$ required. The fact is Narre know that they don’t have the corporate $$$ to be competitive any higher than div1 in EFNL.
Source from AFLSE told me about the Junior clubs request to move early last year and believed that Narre Nth would be operating a Senior cream from 2024 in EFNL.
ALSE knocking back the transfer of 3 junior clubs to to Eastern juniors has “killed” any hope of a Senior club coming from Narre Nt( regardless of which comp they play in.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Okay, been told that Eastern have approved Narre in Div 1 for 2024 (in 2022} but Narre looking at Southern due to $$$$$$ required. The fact is Narre know that they don’t have the corporate $$$ to be competitive any higher than div1 in EFNL.
Source from AFLSE told me about the Junior clubs request to move early last year and believed that Narre Nth would be operating a Senior cream from 2024 in EFNL.
ALSE knocking back the transfer of 3 junior clubs to to Eastern juniors has “killed” any hope of a Senior club coming from Narre Nt( regardless of which comp they play in.

Narre’s big issue is netball, they are a combined netball/football club (unlike Berwick and Beaconsfield who were seperate entities to their netball clubs), metro leagues don’t have Saturday netball on site so half the club (netballers) obviously aren’t going to want to move leagues. If they are to overcome that they’ll basically be splitting the club.

The EFNL cannot approve the entry of any club, in the league rules all clubs need to be voted in by a majority of existing clubs. The 48 clubs have two votes each, the 5 stand-alone junior clubs have one vote, 50%+ required for the new club to gain entry.

The sticky bit I see is the EFNL clubs won’t vote Narre in as they’re now awake to the fact they’re just turkeys voting for Xmas. They know their entry is going to mean more relegations or less promotions so hard to see it getting up.

Unlike a new senior club, say Narre North, that would start in Division 4 (which currently has only 8 clubs) and nobody would see as any threat - I’m sure that would get voted in.

There’s a lot of EFNL clubs now thinking hang on, are we actually any better off with the addition of Noble Park, Balwyn, Park Orchards, Berwick, Beaconsfield, South Belgrave etc… no, we’re actually worse off as they sail past us up the competition.

 

[2s Hack]

SFNL needs to work out what it stands for. A selling point for years was the local rivalries and geography. If the intention now is to expand and create a multi-division competition then great but let’s be transparent about that. Remember we started as a five-division comp when the ESCFL and SESFL joined up but soon clubs merged, disbanded or folded as they were competing for the same shallow pool of players. Every external South-East corridor club you bring in is another kick in the guts for battling SFNL clubs already in that area.

Personally would like to see them attract established clubs from the Southern area proper – Edi Asp, Chelsea, Beaumaris, Parkdale rather than expand out to Pakenham FFS.

Due to previous affiliation I keep an eye on the VAFA. There is considerable angst in the ammos at the moment about how only a handful of clubs can reach the very top and how battling club in the lower grades, not only have little prospect of competing against the most powerful clubs, but have to travel inordinate distances. Seems that we are intent on heading down the same path.

Compare say a Narre Warren with 25 plus junior teams, and 100 families a month moving into the area with a Springvale. No juniors, no U18s, older demographic with many residents born overseas or first gen. Suburb has maxed out so no growth and no new families.

Careful what you wish for.

A Southern Bayside competition is what HQ should be focused on.

 

[bedford]

A Southern Bayside competition is what HQ should be focused on.

Have you seen a proposed comp

 

[gelder01]

Narre’s big issue is netball, they are a combined netball/football club (unlike Berwick and Beaconsfield who were seperate entities to their netball clubs), metro leagues don’t have Saturday netball on site so half the club (netballers) obviously aren’t going to want to move leagues. If they are to overcome that they’ll basically be splitting the club.

The EFNL cannot approve the entry of any club, in the league rules all clubs need to be voted in by a majority of existing clubs. The 48 clubs have two votes each, the 5 stand-alone junior clubs have one vote, 50%+ required for the new club to gain entry.

The sticky bit I see is the EFNL clubs won’t vote Narre in as they’re now awake to the fact they’re just turkeys voting for Xmas. They know their entry is going to mean more relegations or less promotions so hard to see it getting up.

Unlike a new senior club, say Narre North, that would start in Division 4 (which currently has only 8 clubs) and nobody would see as any threat - I’m sure that would get voted in.

There’s a lot of EFNL clubs now thinking hang on, are we actually any better off with the addition of Noble Park, Balwyn, Park Orchards, Berwick, Beaconsfield, South Belgrave etc… no, we’re actually worse off as they sail past us up the competition.

Narre committee believe that the EFNL has said that they will be in DIV 1 for 2024, not sure if this was written or verbal, but are considering SFNL for lower $ spend....i believe they would be better off in SESFNL. Officer, Pakenham more suited to Outer East, Pakky will go east if anywhere, not west.

 

[2s Hack]

Have you seen a proposed comp

Only yours. I originally thought the concept would save U/19s in the area but why not implement it for senior football as well.

Makes a lot of sense

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Narre committee believe that the EFNL has said that they will be in DIV 1 for 2024, not sure if this was written or verbal, but are considering SFNL for lower $ spend....i believe they would be better off in SESFNL. Officer, Pakenham more suited to Outer East, Pakky will go east if anywhere, not west.

Very interesting. They can certainly promise them a vote of clubs and i guess they’ll use what methods they can to make it go how they want.

 

[Parkf00ty]

Port Colts and St Kilda City are really outliers, they’re unique in terms of being genuine inner city. Port are still a lot closer to many WRFL clubs, but obviously wanted to come south.

East Malvern, Ashwood and South Yarra should be in Eastern.

Eastern were long courting Narre but they couldn't do it as there's no Saturday netball. Eastern tried to get Berwick and Beaconsfield junior clubs across last year, and interesting also Narre North JFC. My guess would be they're keen to make that happen and from there Narre North will start a senior club in the EFNL.

Port were in the comp for along time prior to this time



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[DangerousD]

The amount of different football leagues across Melbourne is dumb, merge as many leagues as possible.

There hasn’t been much player movement news posted, are we a bit early for that?

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Clearances open February 1.