Since '94, a side from outside the 8 has made the top 4 every year. Who

[Palmer Stoat]

Freo have quite a bit of talent, just not sure their midfield is gonna be good enough for top four. Still, with Hasleby back and another year into the likes of Palmer and Ibbotsen (and maybe Mayne could move up the ground, I'm not sure), they appeal as a bolter. It's just that Freo always appeal as a big improver and rarely deliver.

Port and Richmond have claims too. Carlton are overhyped IMO.

If I had to choose one, I'd say Richmond. But maybe this will be the year that the trend is broken?

 

[captain peanut]

port adelaide. the best side outside of last year's 8 by the length of the straight. expect them to bounce back hard. rich will make the 8 but not top 4. carl will not for the reasons many have alluded to here - lack of depth, over reliance on 2 key players in judd and fevola

 

[The Donners]

Ok where do I start....

Useless rucks, i don't care if youg ot 10 of them, they are useless.
Hadley as a positive? oh dear
Walker and Houlihan? now that is just funny
Inexperienced defense is the biggest hole in the side, and will not be fixed by a preseason or two...
A fit Judd? an unfit Judd won your B&F, says alot about the backup.... he ain't gonna be a night and day difference to what he was last year anyway....

And Fev can't play much better then he did last year, and you finished out of the 8, where's the serious improvement? and don't mention Yarran, that is embarassing.

I happen to agree with you, in particular the question in bold. Rucks, backs and forward line is still a major issue and in '09 there will be little to no improvement in these areas.

 

[ThePine]

how about just natural improvement across the whole list.

No one is over the age of 28. Gibbs is just 19, Murphy 21.

And to say we have no backline is an ignorant head in the sand comment.

Jamieson is more than capable of holding down fb, Waite represented Vic last year, Bower has done great jobs on key forwards already and Thornton, although much maligned adds experience.

Not saying we will make top 4, but people completely writing off Carlton need to look a little closer.

 

[The Donners]

Freo have quite a bit of talent, just not sure their midfield is gonna be good enough for top four. Still, with Hasleby back and another year into the likes of Palmer and Ibbotsen (and maybe Mayne could move up the ground, I'm not sure), they appeal as a bolter. It's just that Freo always appeal as a big improver and rarely deliver.

I fear Hasleby will be too slow. I may be quick to judge here but I don't rate Mayne. I have a feeling Fremantle may be in the bottom 4 for a couple more years. Their good players are brilliant, their 2nd and 3rd tier players are ordinary.

Port and Richmond have claims too. Carlton are overhyped IMO.

Agreed.

If I had to choose one, I'd say Richmond. But maybe this will be the year that the trend is broken?

port adelaide. the best side outside of last year's 8 by the length of the straight. expect them to bounce back hard. rich will make the 8 but not top 4. carl will not for the reasons many have alluded to here - lack of depth, over reliance on 2 key players in judd and fevola

Agreed.

DISCLAIMER: AGREEING WITH COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTERS DOES NOT MAKE ME LIKE COLLINGWOOD.

 

[Dominator_7]

Ok where do I start....

Useless rucks, i don't care if youg ot 10 of them, they are useless.
Hadley as a positive? oh dear
Walker and Houlihan? now that is just funny
Inexperienced defense is the biggest hole in the side, and will not be fixed by a preseason or two...
A fit Judd? an unfit Judd won your B&F, says alot about the backup.... he ain't gonna be a night and day difference to what he was last year anyway....

And Fev can't play much better then he did last year, and you finished out of the 8, where's the serious improvement? and don't mention Yarran, that is embarassing.

Yet we've polaxed your mob the last three meetings without Fev being a major contributer to the wins... Enough said...

Run along now

 

[PAFC_1870]

how about just natural improvement across the whole list.

No one is over the age of 28. Gibbs is just 19, Murphy 21.

And to say we have no backline is an ignorant head in the sand comment.

Jamieson is more than capable of holding down fb, Waite represented Vic last year, Bower has done great jobs on key forwards already and Thornton, although much maligned adds experience.

Not saying we will make top 4, but people completely writing off Carlton need to look a little closer.

Well then what are you saying?

Yes you may make the top 8, that ain't the big argument here, but as for jumping 8 spots and finishing in the top 4 you would need a reason for serious improvement, which would have been recruiting Cox and Scarlett, and by all means, gloat all you want then!

You don't win Premierships shit defenses, the Hawks one although not excellent did have a bloke called Hodge plugging in holes too... But they also had 3 guys capable of kicking well over 50 goals and many others capable of over 30...

You guys have 1.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Yet we've polaxed your mob the last three meetings without Fev being a major contributer to the wins... Enough said...

Run along now

Ah, Carlton fans, the most uneducated of the bunch.

I got news for you, AFL was going before 2008, amazing hey

Care to show me Ports win loss record over the almighty Carlton? and then explain that dominance?

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

It's hard to say, as it is every year. Which is why most people get it wrong...

Not many would have tipped the Saints or Dogs to go so well, nor the Weagles or Port to drop so much.

But you'd have to say for this trend to continue, one of the dogs or saints will drop out of the top 4. And I reckon they'll be replaced most likely by Port or Richmond.

 

[The Donners]

how about just natural improvement across the whole list.

No one is over the age of 28. Gibbs is just 19, Murphy 21.

And to say we have no backline is an ignorant head in the sand comment.

Jamieson is more than capable of holding down fb, Waite represented Vic last year, Bower has done great jobs on key forwards already and Thornton, although much maligned adds experience.

Not saying we will make top 4, but people completely writing off Carlton need to look a little closer.

Age means nothing if you're no good.

Perhaps move Waite to CHF (his correct position imo) and it may solve your issue of breaking down across half-forward as well as providing an option other than Fevola - Fisher is not reliable. However, it would only leave you with Jamieson, Bower and Thornton... that would be the weakest backline by personnel in the competition.

 

[Dominator_7]

I got news for you, AFL was going before 2008, amazing hey

Ok then... We beat you in 2007 too....

Care to show me Ports win loss record over the almighty Carlton? and then explain that dominance?

Differnt players.. different era. We're talking about the current/recent playing list, and with those players, we've owned your bogan butts...

 

[The Donners]

Yet we've polaxed your mob the last three meetings without Fev being a major contributer to the wins... Enough said...

Run along now

Essendon have beaten your mob the last three meetings with Fev being a major contributor in the last 2, 15 goals. In the first outing of '08 Judd had 32 touches and kicked 2 goals, that's a fair contribution. In the 2nd game Judd got hammered for the first time and Welsh cleaned him up for the remainder of the game.

 

[ThePine]

Well then what are you saying?

Yes you may make the top 8, that ain't the big argument here, but as for jumping 8 spots and finishing in the top 4 you would need a reason for serious improvement, which would have been recruiting Cox and Scarlett, and by all means, gloat all you want then!

You don't win Premierships shit defenses, the Hawks one although not excellent did have a bloke called Hodge plugging in holes too... But they also had 3 guys capable of kicking well over 50 goals and many others capable of over 30...

You guys have 1.

I was more replying to the nay sayers that where outright slandering Carlton.

You raise valid points in the rest of your post and the same could be applied to alot of other teams.

Many people are saying Port will bounce back, you have a rookie fb and how many of your forwards kicked over 50 goals last year?

 

[ThePine]

Age means nothing if you're no good.

True, and probably something you should share with a few of your fellow supporters.

Ratten has stated that Waite may go forward on occasions, a sort of horses for courses policy like West Coast had with Hunter.

IMHO i can see improvement in the list, but my opinion is worth sfa to you as it is obviously biased

 

[Dominator_7]

Essendon have beaten your mob the last three meetings with Fev being a major contributor in the last 2, 15 goals. In the first outing of '08 Judd had 32 touches and kicked 2 goals, that's a fair contribution. In the 2nd game Judd got hammered for the first time and Welsh cleaned him up for the remainder of the game.

Dude, I'm not arguing against the Dons possibly making the 8, as with the KP talent you've got, improvement is inevitable...

 

[PAFC_1870]

I was more replying to the nay sayers that where outright slandering Carlton.

You raise valid points in the rest of your post and the same could be applied to alot of other teams.

Many people are saying Port will bounce back, you have a rookie fb and how many of your forwards kicked over 50 goals last year?

I know Port's defense is a problem, but there are countless neutrals here who know that Port weren't a bottom 4 side, it was pretty obvious they did what they did circa-2006 and got players in for surgery etc etc.

Port has 9 Premiership players from memory still, we got back a fav son in Carr who fixes a glaring weakness we had, although now we have developed many like players to him.

As a bonus, Peter Burgoyne will be back in the middle this year, Shaun's tagger is going to a hammering from Carr freeing him up, both ruckmen are super fit again. And blokes like Pearce/Rodan won't have the attention on them and will be breaking lines all year long.

Their is alot to like about simply adding Carr back to the mix.

As a result, people such as Chad Cornes will go back to CHB, and that is the biggest difference. All of a sudden Thurstans, Chaplin or Pettigrew play on a lesser player, and Carlisle has more then shown his worth and has records over good fwds despite Port being in the bottom 4. I still want another Carlisle'esque backmen there too though.

I got news for you, AFL was going before 2008, amazing hey

Ok then... We beat you in 2007 too....

Care to show me Ports win loss record over the almighty Carlton? and then explain that dominance?

Differnt players.. different era. We're talking about the current/recent playing list, and with those players, we've owned your bogan butts...

I'm not gonna waste my time with you.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Dude, I'm not arguing against the Dons possibly making the 8, as with the KP talent you've got, improvement is inevitable...

Can i just say even with the KP talent we have, we still won't make it imho.

 

[Pie eyed]

Good see Bruce McAvaney plagiarising this on Friday night.

Long term trends were made to broken....

 

[Weiterbot23]

Amazing stat!


This is what i reckon
-Hawks and geelong top 2.

-rest of the comp could finish anywhere

-essendon and melbourne 15 and 16

 

[The Donners]

True, and probably something you should share with a few of your fellow supporters.

True.

Ratten has stated that Waite may go forward on occasions, a sort of horses for courses policy like West Coast had with Hunter.

I think Waite performs best as a forward, I don't think he has the genuine defensive skills to hold down CHB. (Ryder in a similar boat at this stage)

IMHO i can see improvement in the list, but my opinion is worth sfa to you as it is obviously biased as it would be with me!

Dude, I'm not arguing against the Dons possibly making the 8, as with the KP talent you've got, improvement is inevitable...

True, sorry, it's a defense mechanism caused by the vast majority on this forum (who incidentally have no idea about our players).

 

[StringyDog]

I was more replying to the nay sayers that where outright slandering Carlton.

You raise valid points in the rest of your post and the same could be applied to alot of other teams.

Many people are saying Port will bounce back, you have a rookie fb and how many of your forwards kicked over 50 goals last year?

You dope, the same number as Carlton 1, only Port have others who are more than capable in Ebert and Westoff, at Carlton there is no-one besides Fev capable of kicking more than 50. Carlton has one avenue to goal, if Fev stays fit and in form Carlton will prob make finals but if he goes down Carlton are back to bottom 4 material.

 

[The Donners]

I know Port's defense is a problem, but there are countless neutrals here who know that Port weren't a bottom 4 side, it was pretty obvious they did what they did circa-2006 and got players in for surgery etc etc.

Yes it is and no you aren't.

Port has 9 Premiership players from memory still, we got back a fav son in Carr who fixes a glaring weakness we had, although now we have developed many like players to him.

As a bonus, Peter Burgoyne will be back in the middle this year, Shaun's tagger is going to a hammering from Carr freeing him up, both ruckmen are super fit again. And blokes like Pearce/Rodan won't have the attention on them and will be breaking lines all year long.

I'm suspect on Lade and Brogan this year but I feel S Burgoyne, K Cornes, Pearce, Rodan, Carr, Salopek, Boak, Cassissi and C Cornes are great options that run through the middle and are predominantly versatile.

There is alot to like about simply adding Carr back to the mix.

Though he'll have a point to prove, I'll be expecting Carr to slow down towards the middle and latter stages. IMO he's all but finished as a full-time midfielder. Handy option to bring off the bench to give you another midfield rotation.

As a result, people such as Chad Cornes will go back to CHB, and that is the biggest difference. All of a sudden Thurstans, Chaplin or Pettigrew play on a lesser player, and Carlisle has more then shown his worth and has records over good fwds despite Port being in the bottom 4. I still want another Carlisle'esque backmen there too though.

Agree with most, Carlisle imo can be very clumsy/sloppy in defense.

 

[magtrev]

Don't see this happening this year despite the statistical evidence.

Port, Carlton, Richmond and Brisbane are all realistic (to very good) top 8 chances, but I don't see any of them as making the top 4.

 

[ThePine]

I know Port's defense is a problem, but there are countless neutrals here who know that Port weren't a bottom 4 side, it was pretty obvious they did what they did circa-2006 and got players in for surgery etc etc.

Port has 9 Premiership players from memory still, we got back a fav son in Carr who fixes a glaring weakness we had, although now we have developed many like players to him.

As a bonus, Peter Burgoyne will be back in the middle this year, Shaun's tagger is going to a hammering from Carr freeing him up, both ruckmen are super fit again. And blokes like Pearce/Rodan won't have the attention on them and will be breaking lines all year long.

Their is alot to like about simply adding Carr back to the mix.

As a result, people such as Chad Cornes will go back to CHB, and that is the biggest difference. All of a sudden Thurstans, Chaplin or Pettigrew play on a lesser player, and Carlisle has more then shown his worth and has records over good fwds despite Port being in the bottom 4. I still want another Carlisle'esque backmen there too though.

I don't think the GF appearance in 07 was a true reflection of your side was at, even port players said they where surprised. (maybe the result was, sorry couldnt help myself).

Pinning your hopes on a midfielder that looks past his best (admittedly at freo) to completely restructure port into a top 4 team is a bit rich but i can see where your coming from, But from your description you are 1-2 injuries away from a bottom 8 finish again probably much like Carlton are.

 

[ThePine]

You dope, the same number as Carlton 1, only Port have others who are more than capable in Ebert and Westoff, at Carlton there is no-one besides Fev capable of kicking more than 50. Carlton has one avenue to goal, if Fev stays fit and in form Carlton will prob make finals but if he goes down Carlton are back to bottom 4 material.

That was the point i was getting at.

One thing Carlton do have is a midfield that can kick goals, Judd, Stevens, Murphy and Gibbs all had high teens and above last year and on there day are capable of bags.

Using the west coast analogy again, you can rely on your midfield kicking goals if you dont have the forwards that are capable. Similar to the way the doggies play.