pie machine
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Whats Swan got to do with a Jake video and the worst trade ever
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
So who won trade week!?
- Thread starter Suma Magic
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My vote for the best trading clubs would be -
1. Carlton
2. Geelong
3. Essendon
1. Carlton
2. Geelong
3. Essendon
Surely Brisbane had a contract extension in front of him at this stage as well? And didnt really look like re signing then either
Some people seem to consider winning trade week just acquiring players, no matter the cost.
I guess because we don't know how the picks will turn out.
I personally think Geelong have given up too much, I think Collingwood have done better though I don't see the point in getting Howe, and Essendon and Carlton did well in tricky situations.
I guess because we don't know how the picks will turn out.
I personally think Geelong have given up too much, I think Collingwood have done better though I don't see the point in getting Howe, and Essendon and Carlton did well in tricky situations.
- Aug 22, 2009
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Treloar wasnt a RFA though.
- Aug 22, 2009
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Irrelevant. They were both trades. Geelong was never able to get him via free agency, even if they had wanted to.
Tbone McGraw
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A lot of talk comparing Cats and Pies trading this window.
Both could be risky and both could be rewarding.
Firstly i really like what the cats did. Getting a top 3 player in the comp immediately helps Joel Selwood and makes them immediately better. Not fully sold on the other 3 but they appear needs based. The big risk is Geelong have gone all out for the next 2-3 years. The main worry is their depth with the retirements/delistings they had to do to get their 4 in? Personally i think they have to win at least 1 flag in next 4 years or face a very awkward rebuild imo.
Pies picked up the easily the best young player available and possibly the 2nd best young player available. Not sure what to make of Howe. Their list is very young but well set up for the future. Have they given too much and how long has the likes of Pendles, Cloke and Reid got left. Bucks has to start to show the list is improving prob starting with finals this year.
It will be an interesting 5 years looking at the fortunes of these 2 clubs especially in regards to this trade period.
Both could be risky and both could be rewarding.
Firstly i really like what the cats did. Getting a top 3 player in the comp immediately helps Joel Selwood and makes them immediately better. Not fully sold on the other 3 but they appear needs based. The big risk is Geelong have gone all out for the next 2-3 years. The main worry is their depth with the retirements/delistings they had to do to get their 4 in? Personally i think they have to win at least 1 flag in next 4 years or face a very awkward rebuild imo.
Pies picked up the easily the best young player available and possibly the 2nd best young player available. Not sure what to make of Howe. Their list is very young but well set up for the future. Have they given too much and how long has the likes of Pendles, Cloke and Reid got left. Bucks has to start to show the list is improving prob starting with finals this year.
It will be an interesting 5 years looking at the fortunes of these 2 clubs especially in regards to this trade period.
you aren't related to sexybluesgirl are you?Even though Jeremy Howe is rated as the 5th best Melbourne player on the AFL player rankings, I don't think too many Collingwood supporters have exceptionally high expectations yet. Many believe he has improvement within though, so we'll wait and see if he performs even better in a better team.
James Aish is 19 years old, and I don't think there has ever been a "proven" player at that age. His skills on both sides and footy brain are elite though. I'm sure 2016 will be an improvement on his very impressive first season in 2014, and this year though.
Nathan Freeman has yet to play a senior game, so that can't be a loss. There are also serious doubts on whether he can recapture his explosive pace. That makes sense because he rejected Collingwood's better performance based contract to St.Kilda's lesser guaranteed offer.
His manager Paul Connors also stated that Freeman doesn't believe that he'll be able to get a regular game, which isn't a good attitude to have around either. Paul Seedsman was not required and was being shopped around before he decided to find his own club.James Aish is very talented in a number of areas. He also isn't a pure outside player, and can win his own ball. His contested possession numbers aren't too bad, and it's an area of his game that he's keen to improve. Collingwood needs the outside elite kicking and decision making that he provides though. It seems here that you only recently rated James Aish MUCH higher before he became a Collingwood player. It's funny how you've flip-flopped so dramatically now.You must think Adam Treloar is better than just "good." You believe he is worth 2 x first round picks. You didn't mention receiving a second round pick in return either, so you were prepared for Richmond to part with more than Collingwood did to get him. You must rate him very, very, very highly then.In this post you felt that James Aish was good enough for Richmond to "go hard" at recruiting him. He hasn't played since then, so why has your opinion of him fallen? Is it because he never had any intention of going to Richmond, and chose Collingwood? Adam Treloar did the same. Harley Bennell and Steve Johnson didn't appear very interested either. At least you got Chris Yarran of those five!
Apex36
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Really? Two firsts for Treloar and a second rounder versus a first, second and a player.
Seems like pretty even deals to me unless the pies finish towards the bottom of the ladder next year.
- Aug 22, 2009
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- #761
Maybe it is closer than what I thought.
Although Danger (IMO) is worth a lot more than Treloar, so that's where the discrepancy lies.
Crap mate.
Just ask Hogan, Viney, Gawn, Tyson, Salem, Brayshaw and others thriving with our new coaching structure - McCartney, etc.
gillo94
Norm Smith Medallist
Essendon did very well
Melksham for second round A+
Carlisle & 44 for Pick 5 and Bird A+
Adelaide did well considering the situation
First Rd, Second Rd and Gore
Blues have to wait and see. If some of the players traded in become good then yes and if players drafted become regulars then yes. Too early to tell
- Oct 6, 2013
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My votes:
Carlton
Geelong
Gold Coast
Close behind: Essendon, Collingwood, GWS(will take a while to show).
Carlton
Geelong
Gold Coast
Close behind: Essendon, Collingwood, GWS(will take a while to show).
Tulip
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Just on Howe - all him being at #5 for us shows is that the player ratings are an absolute farce. Jones and Vince weren't even in the top 100 IIRC.
Now to Aish and Freeman - its really one in and one out. Freeman was always a name mentioned as part of Collingwood's great young depth, but now he's gone and a guy who hasn't proven a whole lot more than him is in. To call him 'elite' on both sides and to cite his footy intelligence before completely discounting Freeman on account of his pace potentially deserting him is a bit rich.
As far as the Pies go, its pick 7 in and pick 10 out. Neither has proven anything yet, aside from disloyalty to their original clubs.
Keep in mind, two things in mind for GWS in terms of list management. They have to cut back closer to the standard AFL list sizes of essentially 38 primary list players plus 2 more nominated rookies or veterans. When they drafted the batch of young talent a few years back they could have around 50 or more. Each year they have progressively brought in close to this 38 plus 2. I suspect they are just about there but they would need to remove even good players just to allow for new draftees to come in. The squeeze was on even for talented youngsters if been in system two or three years and injury or whatever sees you still yet to command a spot in best 22. They also need the points of picks for academy players they want to use for claiming players such as Hopper and Kennedy in the draft. If that means they do a trade deal with past staff member SOS that understands their needs and strength of Giants list at same time as getting to grips with his new role at Carlton then win-win trade for both clubs. We helped out with points and making it easier to decide of the many talented young players they drafted a few years back, which ones can be let go that compete for positions in their team they already feel well placed in. I think guys like Sumner and Lamb in particular are competing with likes of Devon Smith, Whitfield, Hoskin-Elliott, Josh Kelly, Toby Greene, Rhys Palmer and Jack Steele for similar roles in the 22. Opportunities for them at Carlton far greater so helps on many fronts for both players and the two clubs. Chances are 2 or 3 of these GWS players Carlton got will create good careers now and they will get a spot in Carlton 22 a lot quicker than they would have at GWS next year. Carlton also got pick 8 of draft which GWS gave up because pick 28 of this years draft plus the Geelong round one selection of 2016 on traded from Henderson trade is worth more in terms of claiming a guy like Hopper on draft night. Win-Win trade for GWS and Carlton.
- Oct 5, 2004
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Lamb, Phillips and Sumner are not currently AFL standard. NEAFL is a rubbish comp and even kicking 40+ goals here can't get Lamb a senior gig. VFL is much stronger and the leading goalkicker Grimely just got delisted from the hawks. Summer struggling to get a kick in this comp. Sure he's been injured but he really should be taking a game at this standard by the scruff of the neck.
Fact is, the blues have invested in 10% of their senior list spots on these guys. They have to turn over players but they already have a glut of list cloggers.
In regards to GWS, if one of these guys turns into a Bruce, Miles or Hombsch, I doubt GWS would blink twice.
But the odds are this won't be the case. Plowman may turn out to be serviceable though.
We shall see. All still young and I always liked the little I saw of Jed Lamb. Still think he has a great upside and 22 straight games should do his development the world of good. Phillips as with all rucks is simply steak knives replaces the need to keep Warnock on list and could develop in time for all we know. Sumner know less about but turning 22 is ideal time to give him every opportunity to make it. I am happy with pick 8 in the deal that goes with it. If Plowman or Lamb turn out to be good 150 to 200 game players it is better than my expectations of a pick 28 in this years draft that need more years put into just to be seen.
Never forget pick 8 came with them all which is an early enough pick to expect a long term pay off which is our main priority.
I like deal from own perspective.
- Oct 5, 2004
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Yep. Still stand by Sumner,
lamb and Phillips not currently being afl standard. Not many could argue with that. But at the blues next year they will no doubt be gifted games as competition for their places have either been delisted or traded. Gives them a chance to see if they have what it takes at Afl level. While I'm sceptical, I hope they make the most of their opportunity.
Apex36
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Maybe, but given Treloars relative youth and concerns over Dangerfield's longevity due to his crash and bash play style, I'm happy with the deals relative to each other.
Tbone McGraw
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Re your last paragraph, i have to disagree. Aish came 4th in the rising star in his first year. That is a pretty decent feat.
As far as i can tell, his second year was hampered by injury (and probably not wanting to be there).
Freeman has been consistently injured , but if the rumours are true and it is a big if, he may have been a bit lax (for want of a better word) with his recovery.
There are reasons Aish was in far higher demand and also cost a lot more than Freeman.
- Nov 28, 2005
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I realise the AFL Ratings are flawed, but Jeremy Howe also finished top-10 in Melbourne's Best and Fairest in the past two seasons. Hopefully he can improve his game even further. He seems to be happy to be at the club he barracked for as a kid now, so we'll wait and see.
I don't believe it's one in and one out at all. James Aish has shown a lot more than Nathan Freeman has, and he was more highly rated than Freeman was prior to the 2013 National Draft.
Emma Quayle had Aish in the best three players, in her ratings at the time, and Freeman at twelfth, as shown here. The Herald-Sun Phantom Draft also had Aish rated much higher than Freeman, who was predicted to be picked at fifteenth, as shown here.
Since then, James Aish finished 4th in the 2014 AFL Rising-Star award, and top-10 in Brisbane's Best and Fairest, at the age of only 18. That was a fantastic debut season, which justifiably supported his high ranking prior to the 2013 draft.
His second season wasn't as good, but there are definitely contributing factors. Firstly, he was unfairly dropped after the Round 1 loss to Collingwood. He then returned in Round 3, and had 21 possessions and kicked a goal.
In Round 4 though, he was subbed out, and then unfairly dropped again before returning in Round 7 with 18 possessions. During this period, Brisbane were placing immense pressure on him to re-sign, both directly and through his manager, as well as through the media.
Brisbane were unhappy with him because they were desperate not to lose him, but I don't believe placing such pressure and unfairly dropping him was the right choice. Then he suffered a broken jaw in the first half during Round 9, but courageously played on to finish with 19 possessions that day.
He then suffered a season ending finger tendon injury in Round 17, which required twelve weeks of recovery. He was also being played in defence this season, as well as through the uncertainty of his future, which isn't the best circumstances to produce best form.
He was still quite good this year despite the difficulties of his second season though, but I expect him to improve significantly now that it's in the past. I'm sure he'll be under much less pressure regarding his future, and will prefer the midfield-forward role more as well.
James Aish is elite on both sides, and has a fabulous footy brain. He has plenty of time, and usually finds the target he is looking for. That's exactly what Collingwood needs in the forward half. A midfielder who can spot the right option, and hit the target.
As for Nathan Freeman, there are serious doubts on whether he can recapture his explosive pace, which is his most important attribute because he isn't a great kick. He has been missing due to severe hamstring issues for two seasons.
He was required by Collingwood though, and the offer presented was potentially more lucrative, but performance based. Freeman decided on the guaranteed lesser offer from St.Kilda instead of working hard to earn more, which raises questions on whether he will fully recover.
His manager Paul Connors stated in this article that he felt he may not get a game at Collingwood, which raises serious questions about his fitness. Connors actually stated that Collingwood weren't even after Aish because they felt that have enough midfield depth, which was a ridiculous excuse for Freeman to look elsewhere for guaranteed game time.
There was a spot for Freeman in the team if he was prepared to work hard and show that he is over his hamstring issues. Instead he decided on the easier option of going to the club that offered the guaranteed contract and game time. I have my doubts, but only time will tell. How is that being "a bit rich?"
I disagree with this comment of yours. Aish and Freeman are incomparable in talent, and development. Firstly James Aish was rated by most as higher than pick 7 in the 2013 National Draft and potentially A grade. Nathan Freeman was rated by most as lower than pick 10, and not considered a potential A grade player.
Prior to that draft, Aish was Collingwood's preferred player of the two, but he wasn't available at pick 10 of course. They had to fill a need with Matthew Scharenberg in defence, but it was a very tight decision between he and Aish at pick 6, but now the club have both.
Since then, Aish has shown much potential at age 19, although it's impossible for any player of that age to have proven themselves yet. He was originally more highly rated than Freeman though, and since then has played 32 matches, which includes 11 matches where he has accumulated 21-25 possessions and finished top-10 in a club Best and Fairest.
Aish also comes without any injury concerns, which can't be said for Freeman. Not only was Freeman rated lower before the 2013 National Draft as I've said, but I believe the gap is wider now. He hasn't played a single match, so therefore has shown nothing at all, and there are legitimate questions over his hamstring.
A player who has not played a single match is only a potential loss. He doesn't weaken Collingwood's team because he has never been in it. Aish strengthens Collingwood though, and plays immediately, and provides what is needed more. Elite disposal on both sides and decision making inside the forward-50.
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"Unfairly"? Please.
Are you suggesting that no matter what his form was or whatever team balance and management decisions were being made on a week to week basis depending on the opponent that James Aish should have been guaranteed a senior game by the Lions, no matter what?
Let's not forget here that the Lions early in the season were trying to find a team structure that worked with the addition of Beams, Christenson and Robinson, all of whom, like Aish, could play in the midfield.
The bottom line was that Aish didn't play well in the last pre-season game against Gold Coast, nor in the Round 1 game against Collingwood and in Round 2 he was sent back to the NEAFL for a week to get a bit of ball and be the main midfielder. He did that and was back in the senior side for Round 3.
In the Round 4 game against West Coast he had six possessions as a midfielder and was once again sent back to the NEAFL to find a bit of the ball. He was back in the senior side for Round 7 after doing so.
Being dropped happens to a myriad of 19 year second year players at all clubs who at times might struggle to play consistent senior football. But somehow when the Lions try to manage Aish to help him re-discover some form, by giving him some time in the seconds to get some ball winning form, it's "unfair".
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