Coach So you want Voss gone? Who will replace him and why would they want to coach Carlton?

[BlueBayou]

My take on it all goes something like this -

If the list is poor, then Voss did a remarkable job last year getting to within a heartbreaking whisker of finals. Ergo, the man can Coach.

If the List is strong, but underperforming, that may be the fault of the attitude of the players, and the Coach is struggling to turn them. Not the first Coach in this position. There is definately something awry with their mindset. AFL grade players don't loose the ability to accurately dispose of the ball overnight. They can loose confidence overnight though.

This is a multi-faceted problem that requires club wide reform.

A strong off field leader is required to clean out the Matheisons, etc, put the factions in their place and get everyone headed in the same direction. Have at it Mr Cook.

A strong Coaching group is required to set the tone and style of the game as we play it. Non negotiables must be set and adhered to, a line in the sand, if you like, must be set. One armed tackles means 3 weeks in the VFL, (can we do 'on half pay'?) for example. The best available Coaching panel is a must.

Strong on field leadership is required. Someone has to lead the troops into the trenches. I'm not sure we have anyone of that calibre. No Selwood, no Hodge. Sorry Crippa, Love ya man, but you have failed thus far as Skipper. Having said that I don't think we have any other option ATM, other than doing something radical next year and making someone like Matt Kennedy Captain. (quiet down those boos...) I've gone off the idea of Walshy as skip for now. Go be you Walshy. Get back form and zip.

Sacking Voss will not fix the multitude of issues that pervade the Carlton Football Club. It will only add to them.

If I had any input to the Coach, I would advise him to coach as he played. Fearless. Fierce. Uncompromising. He has nothing to loose by being himself.

 

[Gointocarlton]

My take on it all goes something like this -

If the list is poor, then Voss did a remarkable job last year getting to within a heartbreaking whisker of finals. Ergo, the man can Coach.

If the List is strong, but underperforming, that may be the fault of the attitude of the players, and the Coach is struggling to turn them. Not the first Coach in this position. There is definately something awry with their mindset. AFL grade players don't loose the ability to accurately dispose of the ball overnight. They can loose confidence overnight though.

This is a multi-faceted problem that requires club wide reform.

A strong off field leader is required to clean out the Matheisons, etc, put the factions in their place and get everyone headed in the same direction. Have at it Mr Cook.

A strong Coaching group is required to set the tone and style of the game as we play it. Non negotiables must be set and adhered to, a line in the sand, if you like, must be set. One armed tackles means 3 weeks in the VFL, (can we do 'on half pay'?) for example. The best available Coaching panel is a must.

Strong on field leadership is required. Someone has to lead the troops into the trenches. I'm not sure we have anyone of that calibre. No Selwood, no Hodge. Sorry Crippa, Love ya man, but you have failed thus far as Skipper. Having said that I don't thinlk we have any other option ATM, other than doing something radical next year and making someone like Matt Kennedy Captain. (quiet down those boos...) I've gone off the idea of Walshy as skip for now. Go be you Walshy. Get back form and zip.

Sacking Voss will not fix the multitude of issues that pervade the Carlton Football Club. It will only add to them.

If I had any input to the Coach, I would advise him to coach as he played. Fearless. Fierce. Uncompromising. He has nothing to loose by being himself.

Good stuff there. I think finally, the board has been cleaned out of the influential rich benefactors (Mathiesons, Pratts, Elliots etc). Its now made up of modern captains of industry (Sayers may be in a bit of strife but he is a doer and the rest are ok).

Coaching and playing list is going to take one hell of an effort to fix at years end, if Cook can't fix it none one can IMO. We have all known/speculated for some time that that something was rotten in Denmark, our attention has always turned towards the coach though. Could we have possibly gotten so many coaching appointments wrong? Something has been NQR with the playing group and if the rumours are even half true, it will come to a head at years end. Maybe big clean out of any "bad eggs" will finally put us on the road to success.

 

[BlueBayou]

Yup
Something is rotten in Royal Parade.

I don't have any inside insights, I'm just a pleb, but it is obvious that there are competing agendas going on.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

My take on it all goes something like this -

If the list is poor, then Voss did a remarkable job last year getting to within a heartbreaking whisker of finals. Ergo, the man can Coach.

If the List is strong, but underperforming, that may be the fault of the attitude of the players, and the Coach is struggling to turn them. Not the first Coach in this position. There is definately something awry with their mindset. AFL grade players don't loose the ability to accurately dispose of the ball overnight. They can loose confidence overnight though.

This is a multi-faceted problem that requires club wide reform.

A strong off field leader is required to clean out the Matheisons, etc, put the factions in their place and get everyone headed in the same direction. Have at it Mr Cook.

A strong Coaching group is required to set the tone and style of the game as we play it. Non negotiables must be set and adhered to, a line in the sand, if you like, must be set. One armed tackles means 3 weeks in the VFL, (can we do 'on half pay'?) for example. The best available Coaching panel is a must.

Strong on field leadership is required. Someone has to lead the troops into the trenches. I'm not sure we have anyone of that calibre. No Selwood, no Hodge. Sorry Crippa, Love ya man, but you have failed thus far as Skipper. Having said that I don't thinlk we have any other option ATM, other than doing something radical next year and making someone like Matt Kennedy Captain. (quiet down those boos...) I've gone off the idea of Walshy as skip for now. Go be you Walshy. Get back form and zip.

Sacking Voss will not fix the multitude of issues that pervade the Carlton Football Club. It will only add to them.

If I had any input to the Coach, I would advise him to coach as he played. Fearless. Fierce. Uncompromising. He has nothing to loose by being himself.

Sacking Voss, on balance, is a solid start to fixing the CFC problems.

 

[BlueBayou]

Sacking Voss, on balance, is a solid start to fixing the CFC problems.

incorrect, but thanks for your well thought out argument.

 

[Garters]

Extend Voss. Cull the playing list. Thats the real problem.

Cull Lloyd, then the board, then would like to get moving on extending Voss and culling the player group. My only genuine concern is Voss does not seem to have a sound grasp of what he is doing. Am not one for moving on coaches ad naseum, however what we are playing v what he gives in press conferences is staggering. Would also add new leadership group to that list. Handover to Charlie, Cerra, Walsh.

 

[Blue1980]

My tipping will be when Carlton fields a forward lien with 6 forwards in it and a midfield comprised of 100% fit players - still can't kick more than 10 goals a game.

You blokes that want to blame Voss for all this- go right ahead - enjoy your time in the sun and keep drinking your own buckets of tears.

Is the forward line we can select from worse than what we could select from last year?

Do you think the midfielders having interrupted pre seasons is a reason for our current game plan?

 

[Magruder]

2018, bolts still coach, I’d be pinning that on sos

Teague would have done a lot of the groundwork/recruitment IMO.

I think we got caught up in the whole “destination“ club bullshit. (Not a term you hear much anymore).

Overpaid in draft capital and coin.

jd2010 i agree, In hindsight it was the moment the list strategy died.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I feel it honestly comes down to the next 2 weeks, a bad loss against our biggest rivals where we don’t show any ability to improve our attack could very much be the final nail.. if it is then backed up with another loss against the Suns then Lizzo is singing from the bleachers at Princes Park.

However win both and he at least sees the season out and probably with another review at seasons end, where who knows what can happen.

 

[Benaly28]

I feel it honestly comes down to the next 2 weeks, a bad loss against our biggest rivals where we don’t show any ability to improve our attack could very much be the final nail.. if it is then backed up with another loss against the Suns then Lizzo is singing from the bleachers at Princes Park.

However win both and he at least sees the season out and probably with another review at seasons end, where who knows what can happen.

The suns game will be the one.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

incorrect, but thanks for your well thought out argument.

He shouldn't be the only domino, I'll give you that....

As others have said, let's see if anything changes in the next two weeks!

 

[Stumpy Pete]

Poll needs more Brenton Sanderson

Brenton Sanderson

Age

50

Ht

185cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

11.0

4star

HB

4.6

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

22.4

5star

K

16.0

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

. I don’t understand why he never features in these discussions - is he not interested?

Personally I think Voss will be cut - it is simply far easier, and less risky, than cutting a bunch of players.


Regards

S. Pete

 

[Sam The Doc]

I feel it honestly comes down to the next 2 weeks, a bad loss against our biggest rivals where we don’t show any ability to improve our attack could very much be the final nail.. if it is then backed up with another loss against the Suns then Lizzo is singing from the bleachers at Princes Park.

However win both and he at least sees the season out and probably with another review at seasons end, where who knows what can happen.

Think it is a given that we will struggle against most teams from here on in 2023. (so if it is based on the next few weeks then it should've been done already).
I think try something different and hold onto the coach, get rid of anyone who isn't interested with his coaching..Very much looking forward to see a cull of players - the likes of McGovern and Martin can absolutely go!

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Think it is a given that we will struggle against most teams from here on in 2023. (so if it is based on the next few weeks then it should've been done already).
I think try something different and hold onto the coach, get rid of anyone who isn't interested with his coaching..Very much looking forward to see a cull of players - the likes of McGovern and Martin can absolutely go!

The culture of the playing group is questionable, but that is led by the coach... and had the disharmony come from players identifying what we all see ie the game plan does not work and then the coaching group unwillingness to change what seems so obvious. If we win the next 2 games and we have a mid season review, allows Voss the coaches and the leadership group enough clear air to adapt our game plan to give us a chance, and then if we see progress in style the win v loss will be less important than actual growth in the system.

However if Voss is so committed to the defensive gameplan we have seen for the first half of 2023 and unwilling to change, then we may as well make the call at the bye and start fresh with someone who is willing. What i dont want is the replacement to be someone from within who has been part of instigating the mess we are in being rewarded with half a season as coach. Bring someone from outside in, who cares if we exceed the soft cap, pay the penalty.. we are a rich club ffs.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Poll needs more Brenton Sanderson. I don’t understand why he never features in these discussions - is he not interested?

Personally I think Voss will be cut - it is simply far easier, and less risky, than cutting a bunch of players.


Regards

S. Pete

Sanderson ss currently head of sport at my daughter's school, does not impress, and I think there are better options available. Annoys me how AFL clubs will wait until the end of season to target and appoint the next coach.. Why should we wait and waste half a season. Identify who we want and get them, if we have to pay out a contract for an existing assistant just do it.. It happens in European Football all the time, yet we seem to scared to upset the club where the assistant is in place.

If we want to move i would be looking at Dean Cox, Josh Carr or Adam Yze bring some energy to the group.

 

[Azzurro]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ****ing club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

 

[BlueBayou]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Stop making sense. It does my head in to read sensible positions on BF

 

[Accidental genius]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Hawks of all teams came back and nearly beat us in one of these early 2022 wins. Voss really had no answer for the change in momentum. We were very lucky to win.

There were other similar games where we scraped in wins.

It’s so clear Voss can’t coach.

If we had a decent coach we would have easily made finals in 2022.

 

[Azzurro]

Hawks of all teams came back and nearly beat us in one of these early 2022 wins. Voss really had no answer for the change in momentum. We were very lucky to win.

There were other similar games where we scraped in wins.

It’s so clear Voss can’t coach.

If we had a decent coach we would have easily made finals in 2022.

On what evidence? The prior years with this same list and not making finals for a decade?

Your expectations are way off.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

My tipping will be when Carlton fields a forward lien with 6 forwards in it and a midfield comprised of 100% fit players - still can't kick more than 10 goals a game.

You blokes that want to blame Voss for all this- go right ahead - enjoy your time in the sun and keep drinking your own buckets of tears.

I don't blame Voss in isolation, the players are just as responsible. With multiple reports coming out now that the playing group are divided and factions are developing is frightening, the whole group are just not at the same level. I just don't see Voss as capable of turning it around, I form that view from watching the last six weeks (well most of the year), the inability to score more than 10 goals a game and from his press conferences.

We cant sack all the players, it would be stupid to trade our A Graders and we desperately need a circuit breaker and someone who can unite the group.

 

[bmaurizio]

Hysterics aside, we’re obviously a dysfunctional club, our problems are complicated and multiple, as things are any professional structure would be frantic to determine the issues and act to remediate asap.
One would expect plenty is going on , given the barrage of media speculation and analysis which will only increase, changes need to be made by end of another lost season.

 

[Accidental genius]

On what evidence? The prior years with this same list and not making finals for a decade?

Your expectations are way off.

Previous years we were no good as a list. Last year we were. Injuries got us a bit but the lack of tactical nous by Voss meant we lost a few more games that we should have won.

Take emotion out of it. He isn’t a good coach. We’ve just lost 6 of our last 7 (beat the wafl team). What more evidence do you need?

 

[Jatz]

Carlton's main problem is written all over this board: "if we lose the next 2 games he's done", "he's got 4 weeks to turn it around"

If I supported a rival club, reading this salty infantile stuff is all the nourishment I'd ever need. The desperate tears of the Carlton "faithful" pining for a short term sugar hit surely enriches the lives of all the Collingwood, Essendon fans out there. It would for me if the roles were reversed.

FFS the guy had us playing great footy in the first half of last year and we were in the mix right up until the last minute of round 23. Stick by him for a little while yet!

Something clearly isn't working this year, and refreshingly our head coach has admitted as much, many many times.

I'm not advocating to keep him no matter what - a blank cheque is a very bad idea. But just, for once, let the ******* club sort it out internally rather than demanding they play it all out publicly! Acting this way, we are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Or conversely his gameplan was figured out after half a season and we've played like rubbish since.

After the bye last year we've gone 4-7 last season and 4-7-1 this season. That's more than just a bad start to the year, it's an extended run of really poor form that has stretched across 2 seasons. There's currently no end in sight to this run either.

I'm surprised you find it refreshing that a coach admits we've got problems "many, many times" and yet hasn't been able to figure a way to alter it. Just admitting there's a problem isn't really good enough. We can all tell there's a problem.

I'm not against the club sorting it out internally, however, have you got any confidence in them being able to do that? I certainly don't. Nothing I've seen from a board/football department has shown that they're capable of figuring this out.

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't blame Voss in isolation, the players are just as responsible. With multiple reports coming out now that the playing group are divided and factions are developing is frightening, the whole group are just not at the same level. I just don't see Voss as capable of turning it around, I form that view from watching the last six weeks (well most of the year), the inability to score more than 10 goals a game and from his press conferences.

We cant sack all the players, it would be stupid to trade our A Graders and we desperately need a circuit breaker and someone who can unite the group.

More than half the team has played under three coaches.

No other Club has ever subjected themselves to this nonsense this century - except Norf and they only reached Carlton levels of crapola because Clarkson is taking a personal for health reasons break. Just think about that and what that might mean in terms of - everything.

We are talking young adults out of high school into a cossetted high expectation high reward or fail industry and all around these kids all they have experienced is total dysfunctional management mayhem. I'm not surprised one iota that there might be differences of opinion amongst players about - everything.

Into this toxic mix of mayhem comes any coach who might be used to a much more stable Club environment and be confronted with a bunch of player 'stuff' from players who has never had a hand in choosing or developing - but who is told are definately finals if not top4 capable and if he doesnt achieve this he has failed...

too funny.

 

[Azzurro]

Previous years we were no good as a list. Last year we were. Injuries got us a bit but the lack of tactical nous by Voss meant we lost a few more games that we should have won.

Take emotion out of it. He isn’t a good coach. We’ve just lost 6 of our last 7 (beat the wafl team). What more evidence do you need?

I am not the one being emotional about this from a decision making perspective. I am certainly getting emotive in my responses to all and sundry "supporters" on this board

Every major (note major) error we've made as a club has been when we've knee jerked on key decisions based on no discernible, logical process. Ratten mid season 2012, Malthouse direct appointment, Bolton for a caretaking Barker, Teague because he was there. While a process is not guaranteed to yield the right result (see Bolton) it exponentially increases your chance of a positive outcome. Instead here we are a decade later, repeating the same mistakes based on gut feel and emotion.

If Voss is not the right guy (I have my doubts too!), a post season review will sort it out. And surely with Cook at the helm, there will be a post season review.