Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[FlowersByIrene]

Yeah, maybe.

I thought they were basically fielding a ressies team for the first half last year.

Didn't Steele do a collarbone last year and miss a chunk? And Sinclair missed the start of this year didn't he?

I thought I remembered Marshall busting his foot recently?

Marshall was bruised but didn't miss any games. Sinclair missed round 1 but has played since then. Steele didn't miss a game last year but did have a sore shoulder and stopped tackling for a while.

 

[BrutThough]

Yeah, maybe.

I thought they were basically fielding a ressies team for the first half last year.

Didn't Steele do a collarbone last year and miss a chunk? And Sinclair missed the start of this year didn't he?

I thought I remembered Marshall busting his foot recently?

Steele missed 3 games with the collarbone. Sinclair missed rd1 after calf issues in the preseason. Probably would have played if we didn't have a 5 day turn around into the next game.

Marshall's foot was an issue in 2021 but he's been fine since.

 

[projectv]

Open question...

How much of that is due to putting a skinny kid in the role of key forward?

And not a Roaming, Up The Ground type key forward - but the Deep F50 one that is expected to crash packs and gets crunched multiple times each game by multiple large mature Key Position Defenders?

I was critical of St Kilda in how they used and developed McCartin, and part of me sees a similar thing happening with King.

They draft these guys because of their prodigious talent and ability - then try to use them as wrecking balls.

Strange.

It's no wonder they break down early.

Nick Riewoldt syndrome.

Ever since he left we've been trying to fill the gap. First McCartin, now King.

Watch our forward line improve drastically over the next few weeks. We won't just bomb it into a 1v3 anymore.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Part of the formal process was that he had to present to and be interviewed by the board.

Prior to that as Sayers mate and, in the belief that the job was his, he was all in. Once he was asked go through the formal process he bailed out.

You can argue as to why he bailed out but there is no argument that his attitude towards the job changed significantly once he was asked to do more than simply being handed the job.

Why are you telling me this?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Nick Riewoldt syndrome.

Ever since he left we've been trying to fill the gap. First McCartin, now King.

Watch our forward line improve drastically over the next few weeks. We won't just bomb it into a 1v3 anymore.

But they never used Riewoldt as bash and crash forward?

They utilised his ability and talent, and let the Hamill's and Koschitze's of the world get busted up each week instead.

 

[PJays]

I thought they've been relatively healthy to their core players

Think they've had a very healthy run at it all things considered.

Had a shocking run back in 2018 and 2019 with Jack Steven, Dylan Roberton, Paddy McCartin, Jake Carlisle, Josh Bruce, Billy Longer, Koby Stevens. Concussions, heart issues, early retirements.

I would say we had quite a few players unexpectedly retire early, or their careers stalled due to injuries. Some of those above. Plus Dan Hannebery (which was probably not the wisest signing to begin with).

But overall in the Ratten and Lyon eras it hasn't been too bad.

I wouldn't say we've been amongst the worst few teams in the comp with injuries for any extended stretch over the last 4 or 5 years. Early 2024 we had quite a few, but most came back by about round 6, 7, 8. Membrey and King missed most of the year, our best two forwards from the previous few years, but other areas of the ground were fairly healthy.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Had a shocking run back in 2018 and 2019 with Jack Steven, Dylan Roberton, Paddy McCartin, Josh Bruce, Billy Longer, Koby Stevens. Concussions, heart issues, early retirements.

But overall in the Ratten and Lyon eras it hasn't been too bad.

I wouldn't say we've been amongst the worst few teams in the comp with injuries for any extended stretch over the last 4.5 years. Early last year we had quite a few, but most came back by about round 6, 7, 8. Membrey and King missed most of the year, our best two forwards from the previous few years, but other areas of the ground were fairly healthy.

It seems that all their 'great white hope' types like Hannebury, Billings, Coffield, Clark, Jones and King have all been out most of the time?
And more recently Henry and Dow can't get on the park.

And didn't Windhager break his hand a couple do times or something? And Howard and Webster have missed heaps of footy haven't they?


I don't know, maybe it's just me - but for some reason I associate them with injuries all the time.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Why are you telling me this?

Because you made the assertion that "if Lyon had agreed to go through the process at Carlton he was guaranteed the job".

I don't believe that that is true. There were two female Carlton board members who had concerns about him and would have had to have had their concerns alleviated before he would gave been offered the job, and that may well not have happened.

Ross would tell you that he didn't submit to the process because he wax a seasoned coach and shouldn't have had to. Quite a few within the club would suggest that he had other concerns about what may gave happened. There were quite a few on the carlton board who were upset at our board members who scuttled his appointment. I bet they are not unhappy now

 

[TheBigPavallova]

Lyon is making a dash for the draft. Nobbling the saints in 2024, to stash up.

Watch them go in 25.

 

[projectv]

But they never used Riewoldt as bash and crash forward?

They utilised his ability and talent, and let the Hamill's and Koschitze's of the world get busted up each week instead.

Not as the crash and bash player, but as the player we design our entire forward line around. Our gameplan from Watters through to Richardson was "kick it to Riewoldt", until he retired.

McCartin comes in and isn't a once-in-a-generation talent, and fails. King is going the same way.

Look at our rounds 1-8 last year when King was out. We had a slapped together forward line that consisted of Jack Higgins, a guy we had weeks before taken from Carltons VFL list (Caminiti), a mature age guy drafted from the SANFL (Hayes) and a dozen game Mitch Owens. And we were very good, all things considered, for a team that everyone was touting as in an injury crisis.

 

[projectv]

Lyon is making a dash for the draft. Nobbling the saints in 2024, to stash up.

Watch them go in 25.

It certainly wasn't what I expected of the club at the start of the season. But given we are where we are today, it seems like the best course of action.

It would be a very Saints Footy thing to do to win a bunch of pointless games and finish 10th. If we're going to bottom out, bottom out properly.

 

[Dogflogger]

Well its called a reactionary response to a forum question about a team being in no mans land, what part of what i wrote has nothing to do with that forum topic question?

yeah your right, until we become amazing recruiters like Collingwood,Brisbane or Western Bulldogs we will languish in no mans land.

 

[Dogflogger]

Maybe we should force out our two most expensive players and pay some of the future salaries while we are at it, that will help our rebuild.

 

[WillHayward]

It seems that all their 'great white hope' types like Hannebury, Billings, Coffield, Clark, Jones and King have all been out most of the time?
And more recently Henry and Dow can't get on the park.

And didn't Windhager break his hand a couple do times or something? And Howard and Webster have missed heaps of footy haven't they?


I don't know, maybe it's just me - but for some reason I associate them with injuries all the time.

You are extremely generous

Hannebury was cooked
Billings plain shit.
Coffield who knows.
Clark slow slow slow.
Jones plain shit.
Dow is shit.
Windhager is just a kid.
Howard and Webster usually play.

I think your being way too kind..saints injuries no worse than any other club and probably better than average.

 

[WillHayward]

Lyon is making a dash for the draft. Nobbling the saints in 2024, to stash up.

Watch them go in 25.

A true believer!

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Because you made the assertion that "if Lyon had agreed to go through the process at Carlton he was guaranteed the job".

I don't believe that that is true.

That's what I was told by a board member that I've known for many years. I used to work with him. He told me this directly. Not second hand goss - he told me this directly.

Maybe he was full of shit and straight up lied to me? It's possible. Not sure why he would though. He hasn't before.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You are extremely generous

Hannebury was cooked
Billings plain shit.
Coffield who knows.
Clark slow slow slow.
Jones plain shit.
Dow is shit.
Windhager is just a kid.
Howard and Webster usually play.

I think your being way too kind..saints injuries no worse than any other club and probably better than average.

Yeah, probably.


On Billings though, FWIW, I went to the footy once a few years ago with a mate to see Carlton play. They played St Kilda that day. Billings kicked 5 and had 35 touches or something.
I think he kicked 6 or 7 another time to win a game once too.

I think he had ability. But getting banged up ruined him. Coming into a shit team with shit players around him didn't help. In a good team, with some injury luck, he could have been really good.

Maybe I'm being kind though, as I know his dad Graham. So I did tend to follow his career a bit. Not so much these days as he's clearly cooked.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Of the 19 clubs, North and St.Kilda rank 18 & 19 in order of importance to the AFL. North is now full of promising talent thanks to the largesse of the AFL, St.Kilda not so much so.

Fascinating watch over the next few seasons

 

[Dogflogger]

You are extremely generous

Hannebury was cooked
Billings plain shit.
Coffield who knows.
Clark slow slow slow.
Jones plain shit.
Dow is shit.
Windhager is just a kid.
Howard and Webster usually play.

I think your being way too kind..saints injuries no worse than any other club and probably better than average.

every top 10 pick we have taken in the draft the last decade or so except for billings has had multiple season long injuries. one of them medically retired twice. we are not a destination club when it comes to trading that's for sure, we take what we can get. If we had a way of enticing someone like Buddy Franklin we would totally do it but that pesky go home factor seems to skip us quite a bit.

 

[BigFrizz36]

That's what I was told by a board member that I've known for many years. I used to work with him. He told me this directly. Not second hand goss - he told me this directly.

Maybe he was full of shit and straight up lied to me? It's possible. Not sure why he would though. He hasn't before.

Sounds like you have been talking to Craig Mathieson. Most carlton supporters were happy to see the back of him .

Well never actually know what happened there. It actually defies logic that Lyon went from as keen as mustard to not interested simply because he was asked to present to the board and be interviewed by them. He might have turned his back on his last chance to be a premiership coach by refusing to go through the process. Not sure that even Lyon could have turned our list into an 8 goals a week team.

 

[Underarm]

North play their low drawing crowds in Tasmania. They'd be lucky to clear 10k for those games in Melbourne.

 

[Engimal v3]

St Kilda have more members than North/Bulldogs. The interesting one for me is the Bulldogs - they've won a premiership in the last 10 years and yet they trail behind St Kilda in membership, and have only a few thousand members more than North.

You have to wonder what their crowds and membership could dip to if they went through an unsuccessful period.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Sounds like you have been talking to Craig Mathieson. Most carlton supporters were happy to see the back of him .

Well never actually know what happened there. It actually defies logic that Lyon went from as keen as mustard to not interested simply because he was asked to present to the board and be interviewed by them. He might have turned his back on his last chance to be a premiership coach by refusing to go through the process. Not sure that even Lyon could have turned our list into an 8 goals a week team.

No, I don't know Mathieson.


He wasn't asked to present to the board. He'd already informally had discussions with the board.

This magical 'process' was a Greg Williams, Cain Liddle, David Larkin, an ex-VFLW player and someone else (from memory). They were to make a recommendation to the board after the 'process'.

Then the board was to make the call.

 

[RonnieRaven]

No

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It actually defies logic that Lyon went from as keen as mustard to not interested simply because he was asked to present to the board and be interviewed by them. He might have turned his back on his last chance to be a premiership coach by refusing to go through the process. Not sure that even Lyon could have turned our list into an 8 goals a week team.

Defies logic?

That's literally what happened. He didn't want to go through a formal process.

I don't think that's being debated is it?