Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[AndyLucimitis]

Man - talk about kicking a club when they are down.

 

[Osho]

From mid 60s to early 70s they were a growing and vigorous club. Full of charasmatic players under a zealous and willing to transgress coach. A burgeoning local supporter base turned Moorabbin into a daunting away prospect even for top teams. The animal cage was, oddly, peopled by middle age professionals and catholics, not your expected rogues, and they were, let's say, vocal and colourful after a few cans. Robbie Muir had his wing, and the crowd really revved him up. Carl also was inspired by the stand wing audience Arryan cries. The golden era.

I won't mention the Saints Social Club. The ol' monniker for it was that you'll remember walking in but not so leaving. I remember sleeping in the telephone box across from the station one evening with Murph waiting for the first train of the morning.

Then the 12 cents in the dollar era.

Then some GF tragedy.

Then now.

A terrif club with a vivid history.

Nothing lasts forever. They should own south east bay area. But no.

 

[Aphrodite]

From Footywire:-

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Is this from that Roy Morgan poll that routinely reports Sydney has a billion supporters?

Yes.

My understanding is that each year they ask people who they barrack for in the AFL.

And they tell them.

And they report the results.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Personally I think we pull a big crowd given the style of game we play lol.

In seriousness, we would be middle rung if we ever had some success, we definitely have a latent supporter base that's waiting to be tapped.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

They’ve always been small, not sure what the OP means when he says they used to be bigger.

They grow a bit in popularity when they’re going well as all clubs do, but then revert.

They have a very unsuccessful history which makes things hard.

St Kilda was a poor location as they had no natural area to expand into for supporters, much like South Melbourne and Melbourne.

They relocated to Moorabbin in the 60s to attempt to address this, which did have an impact. They were able to play there until the 90s when all the suburban grounds were closed.

I think they should look to relocate again, probably to Frankston, as their best bet would be to attempt to do what Geelong has been able to do on the other side of the bay. It’s a decades-long project but one that would be worth it if done right. Find the cheapest and easiest way to get Frankston Park to 15k and host two games there against small interstate sides. Take it from there. The outer south-east and the peninsula is an enormous area.

Small clubs never grow. Big clubs stay big.

For the life of me, I don't know why people think that relocating to some random suburb somewhere will suddenly grow their supporter base?


How many people do you know that have ever changed teams (aside from me)? Very, very few.

How many kids DON'T barrack for their mum or dad's team? Very few.

So where are all these 100s of 1000s of supporters supposed to come from? Immigrants?

How many immigrants will financially support an AFL team? Very few.

And even if a small club does magically discover 50000 new members under a rock somewhere - they're still not going to grow as fast as the big clubs that get primetime games every week.

 

[Teen Wolf]

North play their low drawing crowds in Tasmania. They'd be lucky to clear 10k for those games in Melbourne.

Think the lowest it's gone in the 18-team era is 14k (in a wooden spoon year and when crowds were down across the league, vs GWS)... which is about 5k less than what some of the big clubs have managed.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Defies logic?

That's literally what happened. He didn't want to go through a formal process.

I don't think that's being debated is it?

Of course its being debated. Your argument now is that he didn't want to have a discussion with four people and you are now claiming that that was the whole formal process.

Ross Lyon goes on Footy Classified and gushes about how keen he is on the Carlton job. The next week he pulls out because (according to you) he didn't want to have a discussion with four people who (according to you) would then recommend him for the job.

There were plenty of people at the time who stated that at least two Carlton board members had specific concerns about the Fremantle payout to a female staff member that had claimed that Lyon had harassed her. There was plenty of discussion at the time that any appointment would not have been ratified unless these concerns were met.


I am not claiming that I have spoken to a specific board member although being an anonymous internet forum I suppose that I could. However I am very confident in knowing that the board were highly unlikely to ratify him as senior coach without certain concerns being dealt with. .

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Small clubs never grow. Big clubs stay big.

For the life of me, I don't know why people think that relocating to some random suburb somewhere will suddenly grow their supporter base?


How many people do you know that have ever changed teams (aside from me)? Very, very few.

How many kids DON'T barrack for their mum or dad's team? Very few.

So where are all these 100s of 1000s of supporters supposed to come from? Immigrants?

How many immigrants will financially support an AFL team? Very few.

And even if a small club does magically discover 50000 new members under a rock somewhere - they're still not going to grow as fast as the big clubs that get primetime games every week.

It won’t suddenly grow their supporter base. It will take decades and decades.

People will eventually support a club that is playing on their doorstep.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

St Kilda have more members than North/Bulldogs. The interesting one for me is the Bulldogs - they've won a premiership in the last 10 years and yet they trail behind St Kilda in membership, and have only a few thousand members more than North.

You have to wonder what their crowds and membership could dip to if they went through an unsuccessful period.

Happy to be corrected by someone familiar with Melbourne demographics, but I thought the Bulldogs were in a locality with lot of migrants, and hence this presented an opportunity for us to spread our code to new converts? Also Bulldogs have Ballarat as their secondary market, and all parties seem happy with that arrangement?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Of course its being debated. Your argument now is that he didn't want to have a discussion with four people and you are now claiming that that was the whole formal process.

Ross Lyon goes on Footy Classified and gushes about how keen he is on the Carlton job. The next week he pulls out because (according to you) he didn't want to have a discussion with four people who (according to you) would then recommend him for the job.

There were plenty of people at the time who stated that at least two Carlton board members had specific concerns about the Fremantle payout to a female staff member that had claimed that Lyon had harassed her. There was plenty of discussion at the time that any appointment would not have been ratified unless these concerns were met.


I am not claiming that I have spoken to a specific board member although being an anonymous internet forum I suppose that I could. However I am very confident in knowing that the board were highly unlikely to ratify him as senior coach without certain concerns being dealt with. .

What are you talking about??

Lyon said publicly that he withdrew from the Carlton coaching job because he didn't want to go through the formal process.

How is that open for debate?? It's fact.

 

[raffrox]

I've been off the Ross bandwagon since 2017. I had no idea why the Saints got him back. If things are working then he's great but if not then the narcissism and the hypocrisy is strong and he's just not a pleasant person. Particularly if he doesnt like your work. When you win no one cares but when you aren't, well hes just super abrasive it won't be long before Ross will be three for three in leaving a husk of a club.

Easiest way for the Saints to stay in no man's land.

 

[BigFrizz36]

What are you talking about??

Lyon said publicly that he withdrew from the Carlton coaching job because he didn't want to go through the formal process.

Of course that's what he said.

Doesn't make it true though.

So you have claimed that the formal process was talking to a 4 person sub committee who would ratify the decision.

So either 1) Ross says I'm far too important to do this .I don't have the time to talk to this sub committee who are going to ratify my new job. Despite just telling the world that I want this job. I officially withdraw.

OR

2) The president tells Ross "sorry mate, I thought that I had the board on side but they're making some noise about wanting answers about what happened with the allegations at Freo. They want to have a chat about it if it's O.K. with you" Ross says "No way mate, I'm not going there. I can still get paid to be a media performer and another bus will arrive sooner or later".

Clearly you believe option 1. Doesn't make it true though.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Ross is outdated. I think they're going to gun now for an elite mid, and might be doing it again in 2025. By then Fans patience with Ross will be wearing thin.

 

[Cyber_punk]

St Kilda have more members than North/Bulldogs. The interesting one for me is the Bulldogs - they've won a premiership in the last 10 years and yet they trail behind St Kilda in membership, and have only a few thousand members more than North.

You have to wonder what their crowds and membership could dip to if they went through an unsuccessful period.

North had more than both less than ten years ago.

When the onfield results start to turn, I think we overtake Bulldogs again, possibly st kilda depending on how far the form reversals go. Like you said though, it's actually astonishing we are as close as we are to them considering the period we have had.

It's cyclical really. Always gonna be a portion that drops off during lean periods.

 

[hawkman]

North play their low drawing crowds in Tasmania. They'd be lucky to clear 10k for those games in Melbourne.

You just need to look at who North have played in their Docklands home games. 4 Melbourne clubs and Fremantle as their 1st home game of the season

St Kilda started with 3 Melbourne teams and then had 3 non Vic teams as their form has turned bad

Will be interesting to see what North get this weekend against Gold Coast

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Lyon is making a dash for the draft. Nobbling the saints in 2024, to stash up.

Watch them go in 25.

Whether he nobbled them all along or not, he'd be mad not to at this point.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

So you have claimed that the formal process was talking to a 4 person sub committee who would ratify the decision.

No I didn't.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Of course that's what he said.

Doesn't make it true though.

So you have claimed that the formal process was talking to a 4 person sub committee who would ratify the decision.

So either 1) Ross says I'm far too important to do this .I don't have the time to talk to this sub committee who are going to ratify my new job. Despite just telling the world that I want this job. I officially withdraw.

OR

2) The president tells Ross "sorry mate, I thought that I had the board on side but they're making some noise about wanting answers about what happened with the allegations at Freo. They want to have a chat about it if it's O.K. with you" Ross says "No way mate, I'm not going there. I can still get paid to be a media performer and another bus will arrive sooner or later".

Clearly you believe option 1. Doesn't make it true though.

Are you sure you're talking to the right person??

99% of what you're posting has nothing to do with what I've been posting about.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It won’t suddenly grow their supporter base. It will take decades and decades.

People will eventually support a club that is playing on their doorstep.

But the small clubs have grown over decades and decades - they just grow at a far lower rate than the historically big clubs.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Melbourne at MCG an interesting comparison, as all 3 have played this fixture. NM down 10k on Saints, 17k on Dogs.

But how much do you factor in it was right after the Dees turned to absolute shit, whereas Bulldogs was first Melbourne game for both teams, and Dees top 4 when they played Saints.

 

[Sentinel]

St Kilda have more members than North/Bulldogs. The interesting one for me is the Bulldogs - they've won a premiership in the last 10 years and yet they trail behind St Kilda in membership, and have only a few thousand members more than North.

You have to wonder what their crowds and membership could dip to if they went through an unsuccessful period.

This is not a comment on which club is bigger than another, of which I have no idea, but just wanted to say that you can read two fifths of **** all into member numbers given the way they're tallied from club to club.

In 2023:

• Western Bulldogs had 56,302 members and a reported membership revenue of $9.4mil.
• North Melbourne had 51,084 members and reported membership revenue of $6.9mil.
• St Kilda had 60,239 members and a reported membership and reserved seats revenue of $9.8mil.

Not exactly sure if the revenue figures are comparing apples with apples given the description in the St Kilda financial report was "membership and reserved seats" compared to just "membership" for the others, so they may or may not have included that reserved seat figure here also or perhaps otherwise in gate receipts? What does seem clear is North's membership revenue is significantly lower than the other two clubs.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think they should look to relocate again, probably to Frankston, as their best bet would be to attempt to do what Geelong has been able to do on the other side of the bay. It’s a decades-long project but one that would be worth it if done right. Find the cheapest and easiest way to get Frankston Park to 15k and host two games there against small interstate sides. Take it from there. The outer south-east and the peninsula is an enormous area.

Surely the Seaford debacle means they've burned a lot of bridges in that area already.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

St Kilda has a lot of "dormant" supporters so to speak. A lot of people who are St Kilda supporters but don't engage much with the team.

The lack of success is basically reason why they don't.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

This is not a comment on which club is bigger than another, of which I have no idea, but just wanted to say that you can read two fifths of **** all into member numbers given the way they're tallied from club to club.

In 2023:

• Western Bulldogs had 56,302 members and a reported membership revenue of $9.4mil.
• North Melbourne had 51,084 members and reported membership revenue of $6.9mil.
• St Kilda had 60,239 members and a reported membership and reserved seats revenue of $9.8mil.

Not exactly sure if the revenue figures are comparing apples with apples given the description in the St Kilda financial report was "membership and reserved seats" compared to just "membership" for the others, so they may or may not have included that reserved seat figure here also or perhaps otherwise in gate receipts? What does seem clear is North's membership revenue is significantly lower than the other two clubs.

That's not the full story either though. Against that revenue the three clubs reported the following expenses in 2023:

• Dogs - $5.8M
• Roos - $2.8M
• Saints - $3.4M (again including reserved seats)

So the profit for each club:

• Dogs - $3.6M
• Roos - $4.1M
• Saints - $6.4M (including reserved seats, whatever that actually means)

I assume Dogs members get better swag, wouldn't be hard to beat a $20 Roo Shop voucher or whatever it is we get post-Covid, which I never actually use.