Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[WillHayward]

I still fear Ross Lyons tactics. Saints will have his fair share of close games in 2025 just like in 2024




Well... Lets look at the following grand finals.

• 2002
• 2005
• 2006
• 2009
• 2010 (The 1st one, drawn grand final)
• 2012
• 2013
• 2016
• 2018
• 2020*
• 2023

That is 10 AFL grand finals Since 2000. Guess what all those Grand finals have in Common? All 11 of those grand finals had both sides failed to score 100 points. Hell none of them scored 95 or even 93 points.

Yep 2010 grand final was a draw. 2020 only had 15 or 16 minute quarters So you can throw an asterisk on both of them.

I get irritated to no end about posters saying "But you gotta score 100 points to win the grand final".

Who gives a poo? Seriously.

If my dockers won the AFL grand final scoring 90 points and win by 5 to 10 goals, I wouldnt care. I dont care if its 12.18.90, 13.12.90 or even 14.6.90, I wouldnt care.



I just find it Hilarious that a swans fan like you WillHayward , that you bag out Ross Lyon and his defensive tactics.

Now.... Lets look at the 2005 and 2012 Grand final wins. Guess who won both of those flags? Oh it was The Sydney Swans!

Lets look at the winning scores the Swans posted in those 2 grand finals...

2005 AFL Grand final
Sydney Swans: 8.10.58
West coast: 7.12.54

2012 AFL grand final
Sydney Swans: 14.7.91
Hawthorn: 11.15. 81


So you gonna hand those 2005 and 2012 premierships back because your side didnt score 100 points on those days?

It's ancient history.

Your cult mindset towards Ross Lyon is bizarre.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I still fear Ross Lyons tactics. Saints will have his fair share of close games in 2025 just like in 2024




Well... Lets look at the following grand finals.

• 2002
• 2005
• 2006
• 2009
• 2010 (The 1st one, drawn grand final)
• 2012
• 2013
• 2016
• 2018
• 2020*
• 2023

That is 10 AFL grand finals Since 2000. Guess what all those Grand finals have in Common? All 11 of those grand finals had both sides failed to score 100 points. Hell none of them scored 95 or even 93 points.

Yep 2010 grand final was a draw. 2020 only had 15 or 16 minute quarters So you can throw an asterisk on both of them.

I get irritated to no end about posters saying "But you gotta score 100 points to win the grand final".

Who gives a poo? Seriously.

If my dockers won the AFL grand final scoring 90 points and win by 5 to 10 goals, I wouldnt care. I dont care if its 12.18.90, 13.12.90 or even 14.6.90, I wouldnt care.



I just find it Hilarious that a swans fan like you WillHayward , that you bag out Ross Lyon and his defensive tactics.

Now.... Lets look at the 2005 and 2012 Grand final wins. Guess who won both of those flags? Oh it was The Sydney Swans!

Lets look at the winning scores the Swans posted in those 2 grand finals...

2005 AFL Grand final
Sydney Swans: 8.10.58
West coast: 7.12.54

2012 AFL grand final
Sydney Swans: 14.7.91
Hawthorn: 11.15. 81


So you gonna hand those 2005 and 2012 premierships back because your side didnt score 100 points on those days?

To be fair, I don't think he was suggesting that you want to score 100 points for a laugh - I think he was saying you need to score 100 points to win these days.

My view, is that now more than ever, you need to be capable of kicking 100 points on a given day against good opposition - but you also need to be capable of containing a good opposition to under 70 points (give or take) on a given day.

The modern game in 2024/25 seems to dictate what is required on a case by case basis.

The high scoring teams got found out. The overly defensive teams also got found out.

You really need to be good at either depending on the day.


To be honest, I think St Kilda are pretty close to getting this right. I don't think the question marks around their game plan are still valid. I think the second half of the season answered them. They want to score, they want to move the ball fast. They want to defend. They want to slow down the opposition. They demonstrated that they can.

The game plan is correct.

At the moment though, there are just others that are better at it than them.

 

[Freomaniac]

It's ancient history.

Your cult mindset towards Ross Lyon is bizarre.

I am not a saints fan by any stretch. But yes I do have some bias towards Ross Lyon if you know me and read my posts.

Yeah I have said he got the dockers finals from 2012 to 2015.

That's 4 years in a row of finals. Yeah Freo fell short. He gave freo 2, possibly 3 legit shots at the flag.

This is big footy. I am entitled to my view. You are entitled to yours.

I am here to give my honest view on the saints.

Most non saints fans have verbally bashed the saints side on here.

Have I verbally bashed some saints players on other threads? Yes I have because I think they have underperforming.

Now on thread.... The saints squad overall isn't great but it isn't totally terrible either.

This saints side isn't as good as the top 4 sides. But they are a level or 2 above the teams that finished bottom 4 this season.

Yes they lost a lot of games. A few close games too, so they haven't been belted by 90 points each week.

I think the saints have some decent players. Some can be actual difference makers.

But like most mid table sides, saints have a solid best 23 but they do have 3 or 4 or 5 sub standard players with their best 23.

Crazy to say this.... Saints could of made finals in 2024 have some close games fell their way.


This time last season, people sank the boots on Geelong finishing 12th with 10 wins, 12 losses and a draw. The cats lost a few close games last season too. I personally didn't think Geelong was that terrible.

Last season there wasnt a big gap between 5th placed Carlton and 14th place Freo.

This season.... There wasn't a massive gap between 5th placed Brisbane that won the flag and 14th placed demons with 11 wins and 12 losses.

Guess where the cats finished this season in 2024? They got a finals spot. Actually, they finished top 4.

 

[phantom13]

I don't think you can really make an argument that King isn't injury-prone. He's played 83 games out of around 130 since he was drafted. He had an okay run from 2020-2022 but he's missed an entire year with an ACL and half of the past 2 seasons. He's a 24 year old running around with a reconstructed knee and shoulder.

Thats a touch harsh.

His ACL was before he came into the AFL system so in reality its 83 out of 108 or whatever (a knee in his under 18s year isnt uncommon and shouldnt really be held against him) and thats IF we think a KPF is playing much in his first year which historically is not the case.

Theres certainly a question mark about his durability (noting hes been playing as a one out key forward whilst being 19, 20, 21, 22 years old) but injury prone is a touch overstated IMO.

 

[WillHayward]

I am not a saints fan by any stretch. But yes I do have some bias towards Ross Lyon if you know me and read my posts.

Yeah I have said he got the dockers finals from 2012 to 2015.

That's 4 years in a row of finals. Yeah Freo fell short. He gave freo 2, possibly 3 legit shots at the flag.

This is big footy. I am entitled to my view. You are entitled to yours.

I am here to give my honest view on the saints.

Most non saints fans have verbally bashed the saints side on here.

Have I verbally bashed some saints players on other threads? Yes I have because I think they have underperforming.

Now on thread.... The saints squad overall isn't great but it isn't totally terrible either.

This saints side isn't as good as the top 4 sides. But they are a level or 2 above the teams that finished bottom 4 this season.

Yes they lost a lot of games. A few close games too, so they haven't been belted by 90 points each week.

I think the saints have some decent players. Some can be actual difference makers.

But like most mid table sides, saints have a solid best 23 but they do have 3 or 4 or 5 sub standard players with their best 23.

Crazy to say this.... Saints could of made finals in 2024 have some close games fell their way.


This time last season, people sank the boots on Geelong finishing 12th with 10 wins, 12 losses and a draw. The cats lost a few close games last season too. I personally didn't think Geelong was that terrible.

Last season there wasnt a big gap between 5th placed Carlton and 14th place Freo.

This season.... There wasn't a massive gap between 5th placed Brisbane that won the flag and 14th placed demons with 11 wins and 12 losses.

Guess where the cats finished this season in 2024? They got a finals spot. Actually, they finished top 4.

Don't think that U can blind me with nonsense.

You think % counts yes?

On % the Saints still finished 11th

Stop lying please.

 

[Freomaniac]

Don't think that U can blind me with nonsense.

You think % counts yes?

On % the Saints still finished 11th

Stop lying please.

What Am I lying about?

Demons did finish 14th in 2024 with 11 wins and 12 losses.

Cats didnt play finals last season. Finished 12th with 10 wins , 12 losses and a draw. They lost a few close games last season. Had the cats won 2 more games in 2023, they would of got a finals spot. Had they won one more, then they would of got a home final.

Percentage can count to a degree. But if you end up going undefeated in a 22-0 or 23-0 or even a 24-0 record or And Xtreme will know what I am talking about here, Go 172-0 like Bill Goldberg did in WCW from September 22nd 1997 until December 26th 1998, then Percentage doesnt count.

I mean go watch the 2024 AFL grand final, Did Percentage counted in the end? Nope, Just take the win and move on.

 

[Freomaniac]

Thats a touch harsh.

His ACL was before he came into the AFL system so in reality its 83 out of 108 or whatever (a knee in his under 18s year isnt uncommon and shouldnt really be held against him) and thats IF we think a KPF is playing much in his first year which historically is not the case.

Theres certainly a question mark about his durability (noting hes been playing as a one out key forward whilst being 19, 20, 21, 22 years old) but injury prone is a touch overstated IMO.

Max King can be a decent KPF. He has talent no doubt.

I agree on your view his injuries are a worry.

 

[bergholt]

Thats a touch harsh.

His ACL was before he came into the AFL system so in reality its 83 out of 108 or whatever (a knee in his under 18s year isnt uncommon and shouldnt really be held against him) and thats IF we think a KPF is playing much in his first year which historically is not the case.

Theres certainly a question mark about his durability (noting hes been playing as a one out key forward whilst being 19, 20, 21, 22 years old) but injury prone is a touch overstated IMO.

Yeah he's not too bad tbh.

2020 missed 1 game with injury
2021 missed 2
2022 none
2023 missed 13
2024 missed 10 (and 1 suspended)

First three years playing senior footy he played 58 out of 61, 95% of games. Last two years 50% of games so hopefully not a predictor of what's to come, if they are then we're rooted, but I don't really see any reason to believe that at this point.

 

[bergholt]

6 additional years for a less than 2 goal a game, injury prone, 50% set shot accuracy forward

I agree there are question marks but approaching 2 goals a game is fine for his age and stage.

Roughead had 1.90 at Max's age, ended up with 2.04.

Hawkins had 1.67 at Max's age, ended up with 2.22.

Joey Daniher had 1.86 at Max's age, ended up with 1.94.

I'm sure there are many more I could find if I could be bothered but I reckon every key forward starts out relatively slow and improves later in their career. Worth noting also that Roughy and Hawkins were both playing in sides that were winning flags.

Max is currently sitting at 1.92 goals a game, ahead of all three of them, despite playing in a mediocre team for his whole career so far. Yes, he's been the main guy, so we'd expect a bump, but I still think he holds up fine on stats.

There are reasons to be concerned about Max but not his goals per game average.