Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[BIGHAWK23]

We havent and were not planning on doing so with the group weve got. You dont HAVE to bottom out when youre a year removed from playing finals.

Harder draw

Shed some experience (albeit brought in Macrae)

Defense weaker in experience and ability (don't mention Ari, he has played 2 games)

Fail to see where you grow your scoring profile from outside of King kicking 60+

 

[BrutThough]

You didn’t really address either of my queries regarding your midfield or back 7.

I’d be interested to see who you put forward for both.

Go consult a team list or footywire if you are so concerned with the names.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Go consult a team list or footywire if you are so concerned with the names.

Or you know, I could discuss St Kilda in a thread about St Kilda.

 

[phantom13]

You didn’t really address either of my queries regarding your midfield or back 7.

I’d be interested to see who you put forward for both.

I dont really see the point.

Steele, Macrae, Pou, Windy, Garcia, Wood, Hill, Wilson. Dow, Jones, Clark as depth plus whoever else attends a few CBs.

Its a good combo of inside and outside with some defensive pressure, speed and clean hands. Its not elite, ive never said it was but its well balanced and will be competitive, we still need another a grade mid but whats the point when youll say you dont rate Steele (a 2 time AA player) and Macrae (3 time AA player) not to mention you probably dont know who the kids even are or how theyll play.

Our backline loses Battle but the unit plays very well and we have defensive wingers who help out alot. Tauru probably takes the third tall which granted is a big ask for a first year kid but hes coming into a well structured and drilled backliine. Im sure youve heard of Wilkie and Sinclair, add in Howard who looked very very good later in the year under Ross and the bones remain pretty good.

Harder draw

Shed some experience (albeit brought in Macrae)

Defense weaker in experience and ability (don't mention Ari, he has played 2 games)

Fail to see where you grow your scoring profile from outside of King kicking 60+

We dont have a harder draw this year. Our backline loses Battle but again, the structure and team defense remains.

King should kick more, Sharman has another year under his belt, Butler and Henry didnt play much last year, better midfield. Owens had a down year.

You can ultimately claim anything to suit your narrative, im the most pessimistive saints supporter youll ever meet but the list and gameplan looked as good as they ever have from the last 6 rounds through trade and draft week. Suggesting otherwise just suggests you dont know much about our team.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Go consult a team list or footywire if you are so concerned with the names.

This is the issue

People ask for Saints fans to show evidence, or counter points to show us why we are wrong in our opinions

But they sook up like this

If you want to engage and debate, do it

If not, don't

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I dont really see the point.

Steele, Macrae, Pou, Windy, Garcia, Wood, Hill, Wilson. Dow, Jones, Clark as depth plus whoever else attends a few CBs.

Its a good combo of inside and outside with some defensive pressure, speed and clean hands. Its not elite, ive never said it was but its well balanced and will be competitive, we still need another a grade mid but whats the point when youll say you dont rate Steele (a 2 time AA player) and Macrae (3 time AA player) not to mention you probably dont know who the kids even are or how theyll play.

Our backline loses Battle but the unit plays very well and we have defensive wingers who help out alot. Tauru probably takes the third tall which granted is a big ask for a first year kid but hes coming into a well structured and drilled backliine. Im sure youve heard of Wilkie and Sinclair, add in Howard who looked very very good later in the year under Ross and the bones remain pretty good.


We dont have a harder draw this year. Our backline loses Battle but again, the structure and team defense remains.

King should kick more, Sharman has another year under his belt, Butler and Henry didnt play much last year, better midfield. Owens had a down year.

You can ultimately claim anything to suit your narrative, im the most pessimistive saints supporter youll ever meet but the list and gameplan looked as good as they ever have from the last 6 rounds through trade and draft week. Suggesting otherwise just suggests you dont know much about our team.

Your backline loses Battle, who replaces a player who was towelling up J.Cameron last season ( i understand your system argument, its fair, but players still need to beat players). Who is doing that now?

Should kick more, but if he doesn't, who steps up?

If everything goes well for every team, what a season we will have

But clubs need Plan B, C,D etc

Not sure those exist at a high standard

Yet....

 

[phantom13]

This is the issue

People ask for Saints fans to show evidence, or counter points to show us why we are wrong in our opinions

But they sook up like this

If you want to engage and debate, do it

If not, don't

No its more that i have and i get "but Jack Steele isnt very good".

I mean its expected, you think were shit and need to bottom out so youll hear what suits your opinion and ignore what doesnt, we all do it.

Why would we want to fully bottom out when we finished 6th in 23, had a deplorable injury run and have guys like Sincs, Steele, Wilkie, Marshall and Hill still playing really really good footy.

If you just bottom out when it looks like you might need a refresh youll constantly be bottoming out.

 

[BrutThough]

This is the issue

People ask for Saints fans to show evidence, or counter points to show us why we are wrong in our opinions

But they sook up like this

If you want to engage and debate, do it

If not, don't

It doesnt matter who would be listed in a response. You would just say they arent that good and you dont rate them.

You dont want engagement and quality discussion. You just want to keep low quality trolling.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

It doesnt matter who would be listed in a response. You would just say they arent that good and you dont rate them.

You dont want engagement and quality discussion. You just want to keep low quality trolling.

Please provide any of my posts today as trolling?

 

[phantom13]

Your backline loses Battle, who replaces a player who was towelling up J.Cameron last season ( i understand your system argument, its fair, but players still need to beat players). Who is doing that now?

Should kick more, but if he doesn't, who steps up?

If everything goes well for every team, what a season we will have

But clubs need Plan B, C,D etc

Not sure those exist at a high standard

Yet....

Its funny, most oppo fans called Battle a loose third tall who wasnt that great... until he left.

Wilkie is out best defender, im not sure any team can really boast a player who will beat up on Jezza, hes a star, you rely on halving the contests and the system cause one on one hes beating everyone.

Ive listed like 5 guys who should all produce more. King SHOULD, Butler, Owens, Sharman, Henry all should. We have a multitude of plans. This is EXACTLY what im talking about.

 

[BrutThough]

Please provide any of my posts today as trolling?

You are more than capable of re-reading the last few pages yourself if you want any to.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

No its more that i have and i get "but Jack Steele isnt very good".

I mean its expected, you think were shit and need to bottom out so youll hear what suits your opinion and ignore what doesnt, we all do it.

Why would we want to fully bottom out when we finished 6th in 23, had a deplorable injury run and have guys like Sincs, Steele, Wilkie, Marshall and Hill still playing really really good footy.

If you just bottom out when it looks like you might need a refresh youll constantly be bottoming out.

Fair points stated

Im just not of the opinion you have the high, high end talent to really compete for a flag (a thought i used to slightly share about my own team)

Things change, a FA here or there may change things, but it would need to be a big one

But i might be wrong

 

[jumperfan]

You didn’t really address either of my queries regarding your midfield or back 7.

I’d be interested to see who you put forward for both.

Starting back 7: Webster, Howard, Wilkie, Sinclair, Caminiti, Wanganeen-Milera, Stocker. Stocker and NWM probably rotate through the midfield.

It seems we're aiming to develop Caminiti as a defender rather than a forward. Battle is obviously a loss but we seem to have drafted to cover that with Tauru and Barrat. I also would back in Ross to get the best out of less talented players in the backline as he's done that in the past with players like Dawson, Spurr, Jason Blake and Gwilt.

In terms of mids the midfield of the future will obviously be built around Phillipou. Windhager has shown an ability to play as a more defensive midfielder. Garcia hasn't played much but I'm extremely confident that he'll develop into a very good player. I believe the long-term goal will have both Wanganeen-Milera and Travaglia playing as mids, but obviously that's still some time away. Henry has shown an ability to play some time in the midfield when not playing half forward. Clark has had his detractors but we looked much better in the second half of the season when he was able to string some games together, although it would be good if he could work on his tank. Jones and Dow will hopefully be relegated to depth as younger players come through. In terms of untried players Boxshall, Said and Hall are the only players listed as mids who haven't yet debuted.
Clearly there's still a lot of development to do but I think the pieces are there to build a strong group.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Its funny, most oppo fans called Battle a loose third tall who wasnt that great... until he left.

Wilkie is out best defender, im not sure any team can really boast a player who will beat up on Jezza, hes a star, you rely on halving the contests and the system cause one on one hes beating everyone.

Ive listed like 5 guys who should all produce more. King SHOULD, Butler, Owens, Sharman, Henry all should. We have a multitude of plans. This is EXACTLY what im talking about.

Im not most, Battle will get lots of praise this year, from just being under a greater spotlight

Battle's game on Cameron late in the year was superb, that can't be denied, system or non-system

Are these the guys (excluding King), that will change and win you games enough to make finals?

 

[phantom13]

Fair points stated

Im just not of the opinion you have the high, high end talent to really compete for a flag (a thought i used to slightly share about my own team)

Things change, a FA here or there may change things, but it would need to be a big one

But i might be wrong

I mean King could be the best full forward in the game. With Steele and Macrae getting the oppose best mid Pou could break out and show us what he’s capable of, Wang Milera already is a star at 21. Sharman could become Darcy Fritsch.

Our improvement will come from development of the last few batches of draftees (Wilson, Nas, Pou and Windy in particular) and Macrae helps enormously to lighten the load (we finished 6th with a healthy Brad Crouch in 23, Macrae is an improvement on that).

You’d be hard pressed to find a sainter saying we’re top 4 this year cause, barring some real ****ing leap were not, but we should be looking to play finals, do that, get that FA next year, another year under Ross to tweak the gameplan (which already exploits our strengths pretty well) and its cause for optimism.

 

[phantom13]

Im not most, Battle will get lots of praise this year, from just being under a greater spotlight

Battle's game on Cameron late in the year was superb, that can't be denied, system or non-system

Are these the guys (excluding King), that will change and win you games enough to make finals?

Not sure why we’re now excluding king but it’s your narrative.

You seem to want to me say X player is a silver bullet that will win a brownlow and change our team.

If we get 5% improvement from the kids (who look capable of that and more) and a decent run with injuries I don’t see why we can’t replicate 23.

If we replicate 23 and manage to win a final, we’ve done what you did this year… it’s not that outlandish

 

[Ry009]

Best mate is a StKilda supporter and he like most on here are hopeful but realistic of where they're at. Been some pretty well thought out and reasonable responses on here. Not sure the need to dismiss them.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I mean King could be the best full forward in the game. With Steele and Macrae getting the oppose best mid Pou could break out and show us what he’s capable of, Wang Milera already is a star at 21. Sharman could become Darcy Fritsch.

Our improvement will come from development of the last few batches of draftees (Wilson, Nas, Pou and Windy in particular) and Macrae helps enormously to lighten the load (we finished 6th with a healthy Brad Crouch in 23, Macrae is an improvement on that).

You’d be hard pressed to find a sainter saying we’re top 4 this year cause, barring some real ****ing leap were not, but we should be looking to play finals, do that, get that FA next year, another year under Ross to tweak the gameplan (which already exploits our strengths pretty well) and its cause for optimism.

He could be, provided a clean run and accuracy issues removed, but yes, i agree

Potentially, thats a good group, a lot of your expectations are based on natural progression, something that is not always linear

Noone is expecting Top 4 (i would hope), and i doubt you are bottom 4

So outside of a game changing free agent taking you significantly higher, in 3 years time, where is the club sitting?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Not sure why we’re now excluding king but it’s your narrative.

You seem to want to me say X player is a silver bullet that will win a brownlow and change our team.

If we get 5% improvement from the kids (who look capable of that and more) and a decent run with injuries I don’t see why we can’t replicate 23.

If we replicate 23 and manage to win a final, we’ve done what you did this year… it’s not that outlandish

Excluding King because he clearly has the talent to take you higher up the ladder, pretty simple

But if you don't thing he does, include him all you want, the question was regarding the level of the others

You might

 

[Elixuh]

St Kilda hasn’t bottomed out like a normal team would to compete for a flag. Until they do that they’re going to stay irrelevant. Their A graders like Steele and Sinclair are towards the end. At some stage they’re going to need to become a serious club and commit to a rebuild.

 

[jumperfan]

St Kilda hasn’t bottomed out like a normal team would to compete for a flag. Until they do that they’re going to stay irrelevant. Their A graders like Steele and Sinclair are towards the end. At some stage they’re going to need to become a serious club and commit to a rebuild.

Again, why does any team need to bottom out completely to compete for a flag?

 

[Saints TV]

Again, why does any team need to bottom out completely to compete for a flag?

They don't - people just want us to stay shit forever so they can sit on BigFooty and feel good about themselves.

 

[Elixuh]

Again, why does any team need to bottom out completely to compete for a flag?

To build a nucleus of a team. The only other way is if you can convince players to come to you and have an excellent history of picking the eyes out of later picks like Geelong and less recently Sydney have done.

St Kilda is the poster child of clubs who need to bottom out to rebuild. Poor drafting and can’t convince any players to join up via trade or fa because they’re one of the smallest fish in the pond.

Aside from the president Fred Bassett I actually like St Kilda as a club and supporter base. I just wish you’d have rebuilt properly years ago. I reckon you’d be in exactly the same position as you are now albeit about to shoot up the ladder.

 

[jumperfan]

To build a nucleus of a team. The only other way is if you can convince players to come to you and have an excellent history of picking the eyes out of later picks like Geelong and less recently Sydney have done.

St Kilda is the poster child of clubs who need to bottom out to rebuild. Poor drafting and can’t convince any players to join up via trade or fa because they’re one of the smallest fish in the pond.

Aside from the president Fred Bassett I actually like St Kilda as a club and supporter base. I just wish you’d have rebuilt properly years ago. I reckon you’d be in exactly the same position as you are now albeit about to shoot up the ladder.

We bottomed out in 2014 to rebuild. That got us nowhere. Also our drafting has been much improved in recent seasons. I'd much rather continue to back our recruiters to keep picking up good young talent with lower picks than bottom out just as Tassie come in and ruin the draft.

 

[phantom13]

Excluding King because he clearly has the talent to take you higher up the ladder

But if you don't thing he does, include him all you want

You excluded him, not me. He’s part of a group that can clearly take us forward.

To your second point, 6-10th. Hence we need that FA to push up. This year would be phase 1 of the flag tilt (technically phase 2 post Ross, but I think you get the point)