Hi all, lots of threads floating round, but I wanted to solicit a bit more of an in depth discussion so I wrote this up:
STATE OF THE LIST:
First of all, does anyone really think we would have lost to the Swans if we had the 14 day break and they had the 6? if we played at the G instead of ANZ? If we added Ball, Didak and Maxwell and they added McGlyn? No excuses, but we finish 3rd this year IMO, having beaten Adelaide in Adelaide by 5 goals and running away on a wet sail, and have been the equal of the Swans, losing the prelim more because of circumstance than list talent. That leaves one side that was better than us all year, the Hawks, that is where we are at.
Some perspective. We lost our senior coach last year, and two of his three senior assistants went else where for senior gigs. We lost the AA back pocket and the player literally synonymous with the second ruck role in the era of 3 rotations and a sub in Leroy. We had 4 knee reconstructions, 3 shoulder reconstructions, 1 broken leg, a former player and great friend to many at the club died tragically in the middle of our finals campaign… I could go on. Despite all this we finished top 4, we made it to a prelim and we kicked more than ten goals in the final and where not disgraced, did not bow our heads, fought on till the last siren. I am a proud Pies supporter today.
A little more perspective. Last year the Hawthorn footy club had a run with injuries that was just as horrendous as ours this year. They pumped games into players and it has paid of in spades for them this year. We can expect significant benefits to the development of Paine, Elliot, Sinclair, Seedsman, Mooney, Young, Keeffe and Williams for having gotten games they otherwise wouldn't have this year.
Even more. Goodes, Bolton, O'Keefe, Rhyce, Mattner and Richards, blokes who tore us up in the prelim will all be over 30 next year, the Swans simply do not have the age profile to go again in 2013. Contrast to us, Pendles 25, Shaw 27, Harry 26, Cloke 25, Thomas 25, Dawes 24, Brown 24, Reid 23, Beams 23, Blair 22, Sidebottom 22 (people forget that when they bag his finals performance). the core of our group, the match winners, are overwhelmingly in their mid 20's and will compete at this level for years to come.
Take a look at our likely list for 2013:
FB: Toovey Brown Shaw
HB: O'Brien Reid Maxwell
C: Thomas Swan Sidebottom
HF: Fasolo Dawes Wellingham
FF: Krakouer Cloke Goldsack
R: Jolly Beams Pendles
INT:
Blair
Ball
Didak
Didak, Krakouer and Jolly are the only blokes in the above group over 30 in season 2013. Johnno, assuming he gets another year like he's asking for, will be 32, but I have him in the VFL below, mentoring the younger group and competing for selection as the seventh defender with the likes of Clarke, Seedsman and Williams.
VFL:
FB: Hartley Keeffe Stewart
HB: Yagmoor Gault Seedsman
C: Johnson Clarke Williams
HF: Elliot Paine Sinclair
FF: Macaffer Celgar Mooney
R: Witts J.Thomas Young
Look at the AFL experience in the VFL team! Keeffe, Seedsman, Johnno, Clakre, Williams, Elliot, Paine, Sinclair, Macaffer, Mooney, Young… not to mention that Josh Thomas, Celgar, Witts and Gault where all pushing for senior selection late and couldn't quite break through.
OFF:
Tarrant
Wood
Buckley
Rounds
Ugle
Again, assuming we give Johnno another year, and I am hesitant, with the above changes we have room to make 3 selections in the draft, take Stewart as a father son in the 4th round, and upgrade one of Mooney or Williams into the bargain.
OFF ROOKIE:
Cribben
Shae
Smith
Farmer
Stubbs
The rookie list shrinks next year, but we have already cleared out what we don't need, and we look lean and mean to me.
So what we need to do: We need to secure Cloke. he played every game this year. right now he is top 5 for goals kicked this season inclusive of finals. he kicked 2.3 in a low scoring prelim, he kicked 5 against the Hawks. He once again took DOZENS more contested marks this year than anyone else. He is a Champion, he is 25, and with support he can structure up our forward line for years to come.
Second we need to double down and back this list and this coaching team in. Bucks and co would have learn't an enormous amount this season about how to run a footy team. The players would have learn't an enormous amount about the new faces in Harvey and Hart. The group, both the playing group and the coaching group, is young, is learning, and has plenty of room for improvement. When all your best players are over 30 and your coach has had a decade, then is the time to shake things up, when all your best players (bar Jolly) are mid 20's and your coach is in his first year, that is the time for doubling down, for incremental improvement, for stability.
Some of the things people around the traps seem to be calling for are unwarranted IMO, especially around the ruck situation. We have too many rucks not too few. Jolly will go around again next year and Dawes, Keeffe, Celgar and Witts will all be competing to be his understudy. I would delist Wood, as I indicate above, even if he has a year to go on his contract, pay him out. Modern footy requires that the second ruck man can play another position so they don't occupy a rotation on the bench, Wood cannot do that, Jolly is better than Wood, and Witts, Keeffe, Celgar or even Gault could all go past Wood by next year. We can't have ruck men in evey position on the ground at VFL level, it is just too much, so we need to let Wood go, and we need to AVOID drafting or trading for more rucks unless they are obviously better than what we have, then we need to delist one to make room.
Jolly
Dawes
Keeffe
Witts
Celgar
Gault
Six rucks is enough when you can only really play 4 in position across AFL and VFL teams.
The next point is regarding delisting Young. that is madness in my opinion. He is a young kid, he his tall, and his frame looks like it could add a LOT of weight. Have a look at what the 188cm 96kg Kennedy did to us, have a look at what the 92kg Dangerfield does to teams. midfielders who can sustain a playing weight over 90kg don't grow on trees, here is a bloke who is 20 years old, neew to the game from NSW scholarship program, and has under 10 games at AFL level. We would be dead set mad to delist him.
Delisting Yagmoor would also be totally unfair to the kid. he is still only 18 years old. in the old days at Williamstown he would have been lucky to get a game at VFL level let alone at AFl level, he would be on a standard 2 year contract and the club should honour that contract because to do otherwise would be to betray a teenage kid who has been one hundred percent professional in his approach and commitment to the club.
In summary, we have as good a list as any side in the competition. It will improve over the next few years simply because most of our key players are young, just hitting the sweet spot of mid 20's with 100 AFL games. To take two examples, Dawes, Brown and Reid are all under 25, all under 80 games. for KPP players you an expect significant improvements in both consistency and output as the players push to 25, 26, 27 and 100+ AFL games. That is the bulk of our spine that should improve next year, and then the year after again. Beams is 22, Rusty is 21, hell Pendles is only 24. the core of our midfield should improve next year. When the core of your midfield and the bulk of your spine should all improve, the side should improve, full stop.
The real area of focus: Pace with disposal. Davis gone last year, Didak with one more year at most. Johnno on his last legs, Wellingham still unsigned. We need to focus on finding outside pace with accurate and penetrating disposal. Seedsman, Mooney, Sinclair are a good start, but we need to add to that in the draft, outside pace that can hit a target is what our side needs more than rucks, more than KPP, more than inside mids, more than anything. Outside pace that can hit a target, repeat after me.
Looking forward to 2013, GO PIES!
STATE OF THE LIST:
First of all, does anyone really think we would have lost to the Swans if we had the 14 day break and they had the 6? if we played at the G instead of ANZ? If we added Ball, Didak and Maxwell and they added McGlyn? No excuses, but we finish 3rd this year IMO, having beaten Adelaide in Adelaide by 5 goals and running away on a wet sail, and have been the equal of the Swans, losing the prelim more because of circumstance than list talent. That leaves one side that was better than us all year, the Hawks, that is where we are at.
Some perspective. We lost our senior coach last year, and two of his three senior assistants went else where for senior gigs. We lost the AA back pocket and the player literally synonymous with the second ruck role in the era of 3 rotations and a sub in Leroy. We had 4 knee reconstructions, 3 shoulder reconstructions, 1 broken leg, a former player and great friend to many at the club died tragically in the middle of our finals campaign… I could go on. Despite all this we finished top 4, we made it to a prelim and we kicked more than ten goals in the final and where not disgraced, did not bow our heads, fought on till the last siren. I am a proud Pies supporter today.
A little more perspective. Last year the Hawthorn footy club had a run with injuries that was just as horrendous as ours this year. They pumped games into players and it has paid of in spades for them this year. We can expect significant benefits to the development of Paine, Elliot, Sinclair, Seedsman, Mooney, Young, Keeffe and Williams for having gotten games they otherwise wouldn't have this year.
Even more. Goodes, Bolton, O'Keefe, Rhyce, Mattner and Richards, blokes who tore us up in the prelim will all be over 30 next year, the Swans simply do not have the age profile to go again in 2013. Contrast to us, Pendles 25, Shaw 27, Harry 26, Cloke 25, Thomas 25, Dawes 24, Brown 24, Reid 23, Beams 23, Blair 22, Sidebottom 22 (people forget that when they bag his finals performance). the core of our group, the match winners, are overwhelmingly in their mid 20's and will compete at this level for years to come.
Take a look at our likely list for 2013:
FB: Toovey Brown Shaw
HB: O'Brien Reid Maxwell
C: Thomas Swan Sidebottom
HF: Fasolo Dawes Wellingham
FF: Krakouer Cloke Goldsack
R: Jolly Beams Pendles
INT:
Blair
Ball
Didak
Didak, Krakouer and Jolly are the only blokes in the above group over 30 in season 2013. Johnno, assuming he gets another year like he's asking for, will be 32, but I have him in the VFL below, mentoring the younger group and competing for selection as the seventh defender with the likes of Clarke, Seedsman and Williams.
VFL:
FB: Hartley Keeffe Stewart
HB: Yagmoor Gault Seedsman
C: Johnson Clarke Williams
HF: Elliot Paine Sinclair
FF: Macaffer Celgar Mooney
R: Witts J.Thomas Young
Look at the AFL experience in the VFL team! Keeffe, Seedsman, Johnno, Clakre, Williams, Elliot, Paine, Sinclair, Macaffer, Mooney, Young… not to mention that Josh Thomas, Celgar, Witts and Gault where all pushing for senior selection late and couldn't quite break through.
OFF:
Tarrant
Wood
Buckley
Rounds
Ugle
Again, assuming we give Johnno another year, and I am hesitant, with the above changes we have room to make 3 selections in the draft, take Stewart as a father son in the 4th round, and upgrade one of Mooney or Williams into the bargain.
OFF ROOKIE:
Cribben
Shae
Smith
Farmer
Stubbs
The rookie list shrinks next year, but we have already cleared out what we don't need, and we look lean and mean to me.
So what we need to do: We need to secure Cloke. he played every game this year. right now he is top 5 for goals kicked this season inclusive of finals. he kicked 2.3 in a low scoring prelim, he kicked 5 against the Hawks. He once again took DOZENS more contested marks this year than anyone else. He is a Champion, he is 25, and with support he can structure up our forward line for years to come.
Second we need to double down and back this list and this coaching team in. Bucks and co would have learn't an enormous amount this season about how to run a footy team. The players would have learn't an enormous amount about the new faces in Harvey and Hart. The group, both the playing group and the coaching group, is young, is learning, and has plenty of room for improvement. When all your best players are over 30 and your coach has had a decade, then is the time to shake things up, when all your best players (bar Jolly) are mid 20's and your coach is in his first year, that is the time for doubling down, for incremental improvement, for stability.
Some of the things people around the traps seem to be calling for are unwarranted IMO, especially around the ruck situation. We have too many rucks not too few. Jolly will go around again next year and Dawes, Keeffe, Celgar and Witts will all be competing to be his understudy. I would delist Wood, as I indicate above, even if he has a year to go on his contract, pay him out. Modern footy requires that the second ruck man can play another position so they don't occupy a rotation on the bench, Wood cannot do that, Jolly is better than Wood, and Witts, Keeffe, Celgar or even Gault could all go past Wood by next year. We can't have ruck men in evey position on the ground at VFL level, it is just too much, so we need to let Wood go, and we need to AVOID drafting or trading for more rucks unless they are obviously better than what we have, then we need to delist one to make room.
Jolly
Dawes
Keeffe
Witts
Celgar
Gault
Six rucks is enough when you can only really play 4 in position across AFL and VFL teams.
The next point is regarding delisting Young. that is madness in my opinion. He is a young kid, he his tall, and his frame looks like it could add a LOT of weight. Have a look at what the 188cm 96kg Kennedy did to us, have a look at what the 92kg Dangerfield does to teams. midfielders who can sustain a playing weight over 90kg don't grow on trees, here is a bloke who is 20 years old, neew to the game from NSW scholarship program, and has under 10 games at AFL level. We would be dead set mad to delist him.
Delisting Yagmoor would also be totally unfair to the kid. he is still only 18 years old. in the old days at Williamstown he would have been lucky to get a game at VFL level let alone at AFl level, he would be on a standard 2 year contract and the club should honour that contract because to do otherwise would be to betray a teenage kid who has been one hundred percent professional in his approach and commitment to the club.
In summary, we have as good a list as any side in the competition. It will improve over the next few years simply because most of our key players are young, just hitting the sweet spot of mid 20's with 100 AFL games. To take two examples, Dawes, Brown and Reid are all under 25, all under 80 games. for KPP players you an expect significant improvements in both consistency and output as the players push to 25, 26, 27 and 100+ AFL games. That is the bulk of our spine that should improve next year, and then the year after again. Beams is 22, Rusty is 21, hell Pendles is only 24. the core of our midfield should improve next year. When the core of your midfield and the bulk of your spine should all improve, the side should improve, full stop.
The real area of focus: Pace with disposal. Davis gone last year, Didak with one more year at most. Johnno on his last legs, Wellingham still unsigned. We need to focus on finding outside pace with accurate and penetrating disposal. Seedsman, Mooney, Sinclair are a good start, but we need to add to that in the draft, outside pace that can hit a target is what our side needs more than rucks, more than KPP, more than inside mids, more than anything. Outside pace that can hit a target, repeat after me.
Looking forward to 2013, GO PIES!
.We were definitely top heavy down there this year.
